Reasons Women would want to Train in Martial Arts
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Joe Graziano
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- Location: Milford, MA, US
Reasons Women would want to Train in Martial Arts
Amen to George-Sensei's comments. An attitude of "hurt each other", for example, has no place, and only serves IMHO to illustrate the teacher's own insecurity, not unlike that of fathers, never good in sports themselves, overly pushing their children.
Reasons Women would want to Train in Martial Arts
Dana-sama,
AMEN SISTER!!
Agreed on all counts, except that it may not be the vast majority, but a significant number instead.
Joe Pomfret-Sensei,
AMEN BROTHER as well!!
The "kill em all and let deity sort em out" attitude is something that has seriously turned me off to many martial arts programs I have seen over the years.
There IS more to martial art than just fighting after all. From what I have read of your posts, you are living proof of that, as is Mattson-Shihan, Glasheen-Sensei, Van Canna-Sensei, Pantazi-Shihan and many of the others in these forums, including my good friend, student.
With best wishes to all for a joyous and healthy holiday season,
Respectfully,
Lee Darrow, C.Ht. (Sandan, retired, sort of)
AMEN SISTER!!
Agreed on all counts, except that it may not be the vast majority, but a significant number instead.
Joe Pomfret-Sensei,
AMEN BROTHER as well!!
The "kill em all and let deity sort em out" attitude is something that has seriously turned me off to many martial arts programs I have seen over the years.
There IS more to martial art than just fighting after all. From what I have read of your posts, you are living proof of that, as is Mattson-Shihan, Glasheen-Sensei, Van Canna-Sensei, Pantazi-Shihan and many of the others in these forums, including my good friend, student.
With best wishes to all for a joyous and healthy holiday season,
Respectfully,
Lee Darrow, C.Ht. (Sandan, retired, sort of)
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Bruce Hirabayashi
- Posts: 103
- Joined: Tue May 11, 1999 6:01 am
- Location: Frederick County, MD USA
Reasons Women would want to Train in Martial Arts
Again, I certainly thank everyone for the time they've taken to post and the valuable input they've provided.
Let’s see if we can draw together some of the posts. At times I may stretch too much while attempting to generalize your points, and if I do so, please let me know. Also, the generalizations may not follow a straight line; I apologize in advance for any confusion caused. I also apologize if this post appears to be inconsistent with my original post ... I learn as I go!
First of all, there appears to be a thread of agreement that there is a distinct difference between a prospective student with martial arts experience and one without (e.g., the “newbie”). An experienced prospect is an “informed buyer". S/he generally knows what they don’t like (and some might even know what they like). In my opinion, dealing with experienced students is ideal. If the student stays, it’s because we provide exactly what they want and thus they are likely to stay a long time. Such students progress quite fast in the first few months and often bring as much information to the dojo as they absorb. If an experienced student doesn’t like what they see, they rarely return after the first class, so very little of the students’ and sensei’s time is wasted.
At the dojos at the University of Virginia and in Germany, the great majority of the students, both male and female, were newbies. We developed specific ways of teaching and retaining them. In Atlanta, where I’ve taught for the past 5+ years, almost everyone who walks through the door has had significant previous martial arts experience. Melissa and her seven friends (who, despite promises to DEFINITELY be there on Dec 17th, never did show up nor did she call to cancel), would have been of the complete newbie variety. In retrospect, I may not have necessarily worked up a lot of enthusiasm about Melissa’s promise of 8 new students because I’ve gotten “out of practice” in training newbies.
Moving on: there seems to be a consensus, that
>> any new student, whether male or female, will be turned off by poor teaching techniques, a teacher who is unaware or uninterested in the needs of the student, a boring class, a poor dojo environment and / or unsafe workout practices.
>> Many women dislike an overly “macho”, “military” or “boot camp” atmosphere. Some men feel the same way.
>> A desire to “get in shape” is a common PRIMARY initial objective for many women. Women will look into Martial Arts classes instead of Aerobics out of a secondary objective to “learn something useful” while getting into shape. Men also want to “get it shape”, but that need is not usually their primary objective when searching out a Martial Arts class.
>> Both Dana and Becky emphasize that programs that don’t treat women as equals would drive them quickly out the door. Dana implies that this (and a lack of familiarity) could be a key reason Aerobics, TaeBo and Karate-Aerobics classes have much higher percentages of women than do traditional Martial Arts classes. Women are made to feel welcome and equal in such classes, while such is often not the case in Martial Arts classes.
>> Dana pointed out many women do not like being rushed into the kind of contact and bruises you get from body pounding and kumite. She also wrote that some newbie women are also turned off by parts of a martial arts workout can be incompatible with their perception of their own femininity … e.g., the requirement to cut their nails (a fascinating insight, Dana ... thanks).
>> Becky writes that many women view martial arts as too physically demanding. Becky: do you mean physically demanding in the sense of bruises and/or the need for muscular strength / speed?
After 22 years “on the floor” and hundreds of students, I’ve observed the following general trends with newbie women students (of course there have been many, many exceptions):
>> Many new female students, unless they are in what they consider to be “in shape”, appear to really dislike displaying themselves in a dance top or sports bra during a Sanchin test. At first blush this seems a bit odd as many of these same women don’t appear to mind wearing less at an Aerobics class or on the Lifecycle. One reason has to do with the context: Martial Arts classes are mostly male, while Aerobics classes are mostly female. For the most part, new male students don’t appear to be bothered by taking off their Gi tops (or if they are bothered, they appear to think it “unmanly” to admit to such a thing).
Note: this is disparity is much more pronounced in the USA; I’ve found that my European students have much fewer inhibitions when it comes to displaying their body. In fact many have asked me why Americans are so “prudish”.
>> In the past, unlike men, many of my women students have flat out disliked sparring. I found that many quit when sparring becomes a requirement for the next rank. I’ve come to believe that the powerful conditioning they received from birth from their parents and peers can be very hard to overcome: e.g., that “nice girls don’t fight”, “nice girls do not compete physically”, and even “you don’t want to end up looking like one of those East German women athletes”. Fortunately this type of conditioning appears less pervasive in the USA now as positive role models for physically strong women like Jackie Joyner-Kersie, Bonnie Blair, Xena, Lara Croft / Tomb Raider and the like come to the forefront.
Becky makes a very interesting point:
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by beckyhaworth:
When I first started Martial Arts, it was a desire to hopefully look a little better and be more confident in myself.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Could be a chicken/egg situation? If a student gets in better physical shape (e.g., less fat, more toned muscle) after a few months in Uechi-ryu, would she become more confident? Or if she gained confidence in herself (e.g., able to handle herself in difficult situations, etc.), would she upgrade her previous assessment of how she looked? Or both?
A general question: What do you emphasize and/or explain about traditional martial arts when you try to interest a prospective newbie female?
Thanks,
Bruce
[This message has been edited by Bruce Hirabayashi (edited December 19, 2001).]
Let’s see if we can draw together some of the posts. At times I may stretch too much while attempting to generalize your points, and if I do so, please let me know. Also, the generalizations may not follow a straight line; I apologize in advance for any confusion caused. I also apologize if this post appears to be inconsistent with my original post ... I learn as I go!
First of all, there appears to be a thread of agreement that there is a distinct difference between a prospective student with martial arts experience and one without (e.g., the “newbie”). An experienced prospect is an “informed buyer". S/he generally knows what they don’t like (and some might even know what they like). In my opinion, dealing with experienced students is ideal. If the student stays, it’s because we provide exactly what they want and thus they are likely to stay a long time. Such students progress quite fast in the first few months and often bring as much information to the dojo as they absorb. If an experienced student doesn’t like what they see, they rarely return after the first class, so very little of the students’ and sensei’s time is wasted.
At the dojos at the University of Virginia and in Germany, the great majority of the students, both male and female, were newbies. We developed specific ways of teaching and retaining them. In Atlanta, where I’ve taught for the past 5+ years, almost everyone who walks through the door has had significant previous martial arts experience. Melissa and her seven friends (who, despite promises to DEFINITELY be there on Dec 17th, never did show up nor did she call to cancel), would have been of the complete newbie variety. In retrospect, I may not have necessarily worked up a lot of enthusiasm about Melissa’s promise of 8 new students because I’ve gotten “out of practice” in training newbies.
Moving on: there seems to be a consensus, that
>> any new student, whether male or female, will be turned off by poor teaching techniques, a teacher who is unaware or uninterested in the needs of the student, a boring class, a poor dojo environment and / or unsafe workout practices.
>> Many women dislike an overly “macho”, “military” or “boot camp” atmosphere. Some men feel the same way.
>> A desire to “get in shape” is a common PRIMARY initial objective for many women. Women will look into Martial Arts classes instead of Aerobics out of a secondary objective to “learn something useful” while getting into shape. Men also want to “get it shape”, but that need is not usually their primary objective when searching out a Martial Arts class.
>> Both Dana and Becky emphasize that programs that don’t treat women as equals would drive them quickly out the door. Dana implies that this (and a lack of familiarity) could be a key reason Aerobics, TaeBo and Karate-Aerobics classes have much higher percentages of women than do traditional Martial Arts classes. Women are made to feel welcome and equal in such classes, while such is often not the case in Martial Arts classes.
>> Dana pointed out many women do not like being rushed into the kind of contact and bruises you get from body pounding and kumite. She also wrote that some newbie women are also turned off by parts of a martial arts workout can be incompatible with their perception of their own femininity … e.g., the requirement to cut their nails (a fascinating insight, Dana ... thanks).
>> Becky writes that many women view martial arts as too physically demanding. Becky: do you mean physically demanding in the sense of bruises and/or the need for muscular strength / speed?
After 22 years “on the floor” and hundreds of students, I’ve observed the following general trends with newbie women students (of course there have been many, many exceptions):
>> Many new female students, unless they are in what they consider to be “in shape”, appear to really dislike displaying themselves in a dance top or sports bra during a Sanchin test. At first blush this seems a bit odd as many of these same women don’t appear to mind wearing less at an Aerobics class or on the Lifecycle. One reason has to do with the context: Martial Arts classes are mostly male, while Aerobics classes are mostly female. For the most part, new male students don’t appear to be bothered by taking off their Gi tops (or if they are bothered, they appear to think it “unmanly” to admit to such a thing).
Note: this is disparity is much more pronounced in the USA; I’ve found that my European students have much fewer inhibitions when it comes to displaying their body. In fact many have asked me why Americans are so “prudish”.
>> In the past, unlike men, many of my women students have flat out disliked sparring. I found that many quit when sparring becomes a requirement for the next rank. I’ve come to believe that the powerful conditioning they received from birth from their parents and peers can be very hard to overcome: e.g., that “nice girls don’t fight”, “nice girls do not compete physically”, and even “you don’t want to end up looking like one of those East German women athletes”. Fortunately this type of conditioning appears less pervasive in the USA now as positive role models for physically strong women like Jackie Joyner-Kersie, Bonnie Blair, Xena, Lara Croft / Tomb Raider and the like come to the forefront.
Becky makes a very interesting point:
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by beckyhaworth:
When I first started Martial Arts, it was a desire to hopefully look a little better and be more confident in myself.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Could be a chicken/egg situation? If a student gets in better physical shape (e.g., less fat, more toned muscle) after a few months in Uechi-ryu, would she become more confident? Or if she gained confidence in herself (e.g., able to handle herself in difficult situations, etc.), would she upgrade her previous assessment of how she looked? Or both?
A general question: What do you emphasize and/or explain about traditional martial arts when you try to interest a prospective newbie female?
Thanks,
Bruce
[This message has been edited by Bruce Hirabayashi (edited December 19, 2001).]
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beckyhaworth
- Posts: 42
- Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2000 6:01 am
- Location: Yuma, AZ, USA
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Reasons Women would want to Train in Martial Arts
Bruce...
>> Becky writes that many women view martial arts as too physically demanding. Becky: do you mean physically demanding in the sense of bruises and/or the need for muscular strength / speed?
My experience is that women don't feel they are "ready" for a martial arts class. They are leary about getting bruised and "not being good enough".
I try to encourage women by telling them about the practical things they will be learning in our classes. That there is not alot of physical activity associated with alot of the local schools here (mostly TKD) and then I try to give them a small demonstration with points and finger locks.
I love finger locks!!!
Becky
>> Becky writes that many women view martial arts as too physically demanding. Becky: do you mean physically demanding in the sense of bruises and/or the need for muscular strength / speed?
My experience is that women don't feel they are "ready" for a martial arts class. They are leary about getting bruised and "not being good enough".
I try to encourage women by telling them about the practical things they will be learning in our classes. That there is not alot of physical activity associated with alot of the local schools here (mostly TKD) and then I try to give them a small demonstration with points and finger locks.
I love finger locks!!!
Becky
Reasons Women would want to Train in Martial Arts
Becky-Sensei,
LOVE those finger locks!
When I was teaching, back in the Jurassic Period, my classes were evening ed self defense classes at an extension of a community college.
Many of my students were housewives and secretaries with a few males littering the mats as well.
I recall hearing, at least one time in every class, "I can't do THAT to someone!" Often this was in regards to an eye gouge or a groin kick.
It seemed then that the hardest thing to put across to the students as a whole was that there are NO rules on the street and one HAS to uncork and that sometimes the littlest things can be the most effective.
When I showed a release from a front two-handed choke - something that a woman in the area had been killed with a few weeks before class - where the right arm goes straight up, the left foot steps back slightly and the body turns as a unit (hips and shoulders at the same time) 90 degrees in one direction, breaking the hold, I heard that a lot.
When a borrowed twelve year-old girl used the move in class demonstration against a 6' 4" 185lb football player and snapped so hard that she threw him - the class understood.
It got dubbed the "Hey, TAXI!" release because that's what it looks like.
Little convincers and sneaky touch techniques went a long way towards overcoming the reticence of many of my female students towards doing violence to another person.
As a joke one night, I said, "Pretend he's your ex-husband." Bloody-near got one of my male students killed when the lady he was practicing with took the idea to heart!
Fortunately, no serious injuries ensued, but she looked at me after we helped HIM off the mat and said, "NOW I understand what you have been talking about!"
Hirabayashi-Sensei, maybe this is something that falls into effective teaching technique?
Just my 2 cent's worth.
With wishes for a happy and healthy holiday season to all,
Lee Darrow, C.Ht. (Sandan, retired, sort of)
LOVE those finger locks!
When I was teaching, back in the Jurassic Period, my classes were evening ed self defense classes at an extension of a community college.
Many of my students were housewives and secretaries with a few males littering the mats as well.
I recall hearing, at least one time in every class, "I can't do THAT to someone!" Often this was in regards to an eye gouge or a groin kick.
It seemed then that the hardest thing to put across to the students as a whole was that there are NO rules on the street and one HAS to uncork and that sometimes the littlest things can be the most effective.
When I showed a release from a front two-handed choke - something that a woman in the area had been killed with a few weeks before class - where the right arm goes straight up, the left foot steps back slightly and the body turns as a unit (hips and shoulders at the same time) 90 degrees in one direction, breaking the hold, I heard that a lot.
When a borrowed twelve year-old girl used the move in class demonstration against a 6' 4" 185lb football player and snapped so hard that she threw him - the class understood.
It got dubbed the "Hey, TAXI!" release because that's what it looks like.
Little convincers and sneaky touch techniques went a long way towards overcoming the reticence of many of my female students towards doing violence to another person.
As a joke one night, I said, "Pretend he's your ex-husband." Bloody-near got one of my male students killed when the lady he was practicing with took the idea to heart!
Fortunately, no serious injuries ensued, but she looked at me after we helped HIM off the mat and said, "NOW I understand what you have been talking about!"
Hirabayashi-Sensei, maybe this is something that falls into effective teaching technique?
Just my 2 cent's worth.
With wishes for a happy and healthy holiday season to all,
Lee Darrow, C.Ht. (Sandan, retired, sort of)
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Phantom Dragon
- Posts: 1
- Joined: Sun Dec 30, 2001 6:01 am
- Location: Italy
Reasons Women would want to Train in Martial Arts
yes I would be terrified to enter a class of aerobic, while I wasn't when entering a karate one. but this just thank to my teacher, who is a skilled nice and sometimes even funny 5th dan of kenpo karate . he makes lessons interesting showing the differences in street fight, movie fight, sport fight. and he treats everyone with respect. (and us grown guys as friends)
infact the children class is full of female children as well
I think the expectation of feeling comfortable in the mates environment is what allegedly may divert more women to aerobic rather then karate. I myself wanted to practise karate but I changed different dojos because of the military attitude. After all, soldiers are paid to workout, instead, I pay to work out. I do it for the fun of learning and the feeling of being a warrior. (you can be a peaceful warrior)
So , since I believe chosing karate instead of other then more aerobic trainings is related also to feeling a warrior,as a matter of fact, it makes sense it may be(in general) a more male reason (because of our culture). while a female one is stay in shape. caring of your own body is in general a more female thing. (sighs)
infact the children class is full of female children as well
I think the expectation of feeling comfortable in the mates environment is what allegedly may divert more women to aerobic rather then karate. I myself wanted to practise karate but I changed different dojos because of the military attitude. After all, soldiers are paid to workout, instead, I pay to work out. I do it for the fun of learning and the feeling of being a warrior. (you can be a peaceful warrior)
So , since I believe chosing karate instead of other then more aerobic trainings is related also to feeling a warrior,as a matter of fact, it makes sense it may be(in general) a more male reason (because of our culture). while a female one is stay in shape. caring of your own body is in general a more female thing. (sighs)
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Jackie Olsen
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Reasons Women would want to Train in Martial Arts
Male or Female ...
I feel the hardest aspect to change in a martial arts is the mental attitude and approach. Our minds fill up with endless chatter and comparisons to other students. The gi is too tight, too loose. The limbs feel uncoordinated. Kata is difficult to memorize; the bunkais are frightening. Half hard/half soft ... Where's the soft in this style? And what do you mean I got to punch a makiwara board to improve my technique? Arm pounding? LEG pounding? And so on.
Many students simply give up on themselves before their first breakthrough or awakening.
Ah, but when it comes, it feels soooo good. And, once it's in your blood, it's hard to imagine a life without training. Ok, so your knees are bad (as mine tend to be) ... how can I adapt? What extra movement can I eliminate in my blocks, punches, stances ... so that I become quicker? How do I become the kata? How do I let the energy flow? How do I become more natural? Raise the Spirit, bring it down and raise it once more...
The possibilities are endless and are only limited by my mental boxes.
------------------
In Beauty,
Jackie
I feel the hardest aspect to change in a martial arts is the mental attitude and approach. Our minds fill up with endless chatter and comparisons to other students. The gi is too tight, too loose. The limbs feel uncoordinated. Kata is difficult to memorize; the bunkais are frightening. Half hard/half soft ... Where's the soft in this style? And what do you mean I got to punch a makiwara board to improve my technique? Arm pounding? LEG pounding? And so on.
Many students simply give up on themselves before their first breakthrough or awakening.
Ah, but when it comes, it feels soooo good. And, once it's in your blood, it's hard to imagine a life without training. Ok, so your knees are bad (as mine tend to be) ... how can I adapt? What extra movement can I eliminate in my blocks, punches, stances ... so that I become quicker? How do I become the kata? How do I let the energy flow? How do I become more natural? Raise the Spirit, bring it down and raise it once more...
The possibilities are endless and are only limited by my mental boxes.
------------------
In Beauty,
Jackie
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Akil Todd Harvey
- Posts: 790
- Joined: Sun Feb 11, 2001 6:01 am
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Reasons Women would want to Train in Martial Arts
Hello All,
I seem to find some of the most interesting threads long after everyone has gone on to other ones.....Let me try to add something of value here....
Imho there seems a bit too much bashing of Taebo type lessons on all the forums. At times I wonder if there is a little envy of their success.
I love Uechi and have practiced for years and years. I love the people in Uechi and miss my friends I had when I moved across the continent. What I really did not love was the "it cant be changed, its set in stone" attitude. My attitude is a bit more practical, "if it works..."
We need to keep in mind that the Uechi which we think is so traditional, ain't so traditional.
Kata were added, five of them, not so long ago. Some say they were added because we Americans were or are so lazy or of a short attention span. In my chessy opinion, the extra kata were added for good reasons, not for bad (to bridge the gap between the various kata).
Master Uechi certainly changed Uechi instruction for the audience of the day (American GI's). I wonder if he was accused of _________ (fill your favorite negative) or applauded for earning money to put on the table for his family
A lot is made of the fact that Kanbun Uechi was fed a diet of Sanchin and only Sanchin for three years and that it was good for him. Immediately thereafter it is almost always stated that we (lazy or impatient) Americans cannot and do not study Sanchin and only Sanchin for three years.
I put to our audience that the story of "Only Sanchin for 3 years" is not in its entirety, accurate. It is accurate in that, although Master Uechi Kanbun may have studied Sanchin katas only. He also, in my memory of history, also practiced Ko Tiki tae conditioning excercises.
One of the most glaring omissions in the story is that Master uechi Kanbun had certainly been highly proficient in the use of the Bo even before leaving Okinawa, which he had studied from early years and probably had also practiced some of the grappling arts (jujitsu or some such)as a youngster as well. So, if Master uechi Kanbun had become bored practicing Sanchin, he could go around the back of the dojo and practice with his bo kata. At this point I am speculating a bit.
Not trying to get too far off the subject, but there is a related point.....
I forget who, but I think it was Master Uechi Kanmei who suggested that the Karate Uechi-Ryu not be practiced before the age of 18 (the primary reasoning was that the conditioning practiced in Uechi-ryu would be unhealthful for those whose bones had not yet set).
But, if practitioners of our art do not begin practice until the age of 18. Would not our young people be at a competitive disadvantage to those of other styles who clearly begin practice at an early age, some as young as five and earlier.
I wondered for years about this apparent conundrum. And it took years for me to find the answer (please dont ask me where-i cant recall). The answer was that Master Uechi Kanmei had advised that Uechi-ryu karate not be practiced before the age of 18. IMHO, Uechi's assumption was that, of course, the youngsters would be praticing the grappling arts up until the age of 18 (at which point they could begin the "real" (my emphasis placed here) body conditioning which takes place in Uechi-ryu.
Please keep in mind that most of my arguments are not linear, they are circular, as are most of the uechi blocks.
Fast forward to today in America where much of the successful Uechi instruction is done working with childreen under the age of 18. What have done about the risk of bone damaging conditioning excercises for those who we instruct under the age of 18? Please tell me what you have done. I would guess that you have either eliminated them until later or so "watered them down" so as to minimize the risk.
It seems to me rather ironic that we are so willing to make changes in Uechi instructional programs designed for children and yet far less accommodation is made available for women who seek to practice Uechi-Ryu karate-Do.
Is it fair that we are willing to alter or change the style to accomdate children and not do the same for women?
What is so darn aweful about Taebo or programs that are similar to it? I dont think anyone has ever suggested that anyone can become a black belt by practicing a combination of aerobics and martial arts no matter how long they practice.
The main arguments against these aerobic combined with martial arts movements is that they are not realistic or that one can never get any practical self defense benefit out of them.
IMHO, Taebo type classes (I have never run such a class or attended nor do I have reason to denigrate them) can benfit people in making them more fit physically, which will spill over to their being more confident about themselves, which will probably improve their self esteem.
IMHO Taebo improves the perception of the martial arts so that we dont all appear like macho drill instructors.
IMHO Taebo type classes have probably helped to increase the long term attendance at traditional martial arts schools by giving some folks the confidence to begin training at what were previously percieved to be "Too Hard" or "Too demanding" traditional schools.
I Love Uechi. I love the people in it. What I dont love so much is the macho bull that indirectly says if your punch is not strong enough to stop a 900 pound gorilla on pcp, you just dont train hard enough.
Me, I am just a guy with not so good knees, a back with scoliosis left over from childhood (and having been injured a few too many times), a hernia that probably could use a good surgeon. Personally I havnt the time or inclination for macho bull. I need something that works. I dont care if it works for a woman or a man, just so long as it works.
the opinions are mine, so feel feel free to agree or disagree
the spelling may be atrocious, however, as I just arrived in Singapore this morning from Kuala Limpur (took the red eye train).... hoping tonight to make a Silat class..... it may be a chessy excuse for poor spelling but they spell a little different over here....teksi is taxi, motosikal is motorcycle, and bas is bus...... and the Queen's English is the closest to any official English that exists.... In some ways, this forum is where I go when I want some of the flavor of home....God Bless you all, except OBL, there is a special place in hell for that dude...Peace ATH
I seem to find some of the most interesting threads long after everyone has gone on to other ones.....Let me try to add something of value here....
Imho there seems a bit too much bashing of Taebo type lessons on all the forums. At times I wonder if there is a little envy of their success.
I love Uechi and have practiced for years and years. I love the people in Uechi and miss my friends I had when I moved across the continent. What I really did not love was the "it cant be changed, its set in stone" attitude. My attitude is a bit more practical, "if it works..."
We need to keep in mind that the Uechi which we think is so traditional, ain't so traditional.
Kata were added, five of them, not so long ago. Some say they were added because we Americans were or are so lazy or of a short attention span. In my chessy opinion, the extra kata were added for good reasons, not for bad (to bridge the gap between the various kata).
Master Uechi certainly changed Uechi instruction for the audience of the day (American GI's). I wonder if he was accused of _________ (fill your favorite negative) or applauded for earning money to put on the table for his family
A lot is made of the fact that Kanbun Uechi was fed a diet of Sanchin and only Sanchin for three years and that it was good for him. Immediately thereafter it is almost always stated that we (lazy or impatient) Americans cannot and do not study Sanchin and only Sanchin for three years.
I put to our audience that the story of "Only Sanchin for 3 years" is not in its entirety, accurate. It is accurate in that, although Master Uechi Kanbun may have studied Sanchin katas only. He also, in my memory of history, also practiced Ko Tiki tae conditioning excercises.
One of the most glaring omissions in the story is that Master uechi Kanbun had certainly been highly proficient in the use of the Bo even before leaving Okinawa, which he had studied from early years and probably had also practiced some of the grappling arts (jujitsu or some such)as a youngster as well. So, if Master uechi Kanbun had become bored practicing Sanchin, he could go around the back of the dojo and practice with his bo kata. At this point I am speculating a bit.
Not trying to get too far off the subject, but there is a related point.....
I forget who, but I think it was Master Uechi Kanmei who suggested that the Karate Uechi-Ryu not be practiced before the age of 18 (the primary reasoning was that the conditioning practiced in Uechi-ryu would be unhealthful for those whose bones had not yet set).
But, if practitioners of our art do not begin practice until the age of 18. Would not our young people be at a competitive disadvantage to those of other styles who clearly begin practice at an early age, some as young as five and earlier.
I wondered for years about this apparent conundrum. And it took years for me to find the answer (please dont ask me where-i cant recall). The answer was that Master Uechi Kanmei had advised that Uechi-ryu karate not be practiced before the age of 18. IMHO, Uechi's assumption was that, of course, the youngsters would be praticing the grappling arts up until the age of 18 (at which point they could begin the "real" (my emphasis placed here) body conditioning which takes place in Uechi-ryu.
Please keep in mind that most of my arguments are not linear, they are circular, as are most of the uechi blocks.
Fast forward to today in America where much of the successful Uechi instruction is done working with childreen under the age of 18. What have done about the risk of bone damaging conditioning excercises for those who we instruct under the age of 18? Please tell me what you have done. I would guess that you have either eliminated them until later or so "watered them down" so as to minimize the risk.
It seems to me rather ironic that we are so willing to make changes in Uechi instructional programs designed for children and yet far less accommodation is made available for women who seek to practice Uechi-Ryu karate-Do.
Is it fair that we are willing to alter or change the style to accomdate children and not do the same for women?
What is so darn aweful about Taebo or programs that are similar to it? I dont think anyone has ever suggested that anyone can become a black belt by practicing a combination of aerobics and martial arts no matter how long they practice.
The main arguments against these aerobic combined with martial arts movements is that they are not realistic or that one can never get any practical self defense benefit out of them.
IMHO, Taebo type classes (I have never run such a class or attended nor do I have reason to denigrate them) can benfit people in making them more fit physically, which will spill over to their being more confident about themselves, which will probably improve their self esteem.
IMHO Taebo improves the perception of the martial arts so that we dont all appear like macho drill instructors.
IMHO Taebo type classes have probably helped to increase the long term attendance at traditional martial arts schools by giving some folks the confidence to begin training at what were previously percieved to be "Too Hard" or "Too demanding" traditional schools.
I Love Uechi. I love the people in it. What I dont love so much is the macho bull that indirectly says if your punch is not strong enough to stop a 900 pound gorilla on pcp, you just dont train hard enough.
Me, I am just a guy with not so good knees, a back with scoliosis left over from childhood (and having been injured a few too many times), a hernia that probably could use a good surgeon. Personally I havnt the time or inclination for macho bull. I need something that works. I dont care if it works for a woman or a man, just so long as it works.
the opinions are mine, so feel feel free to agree or disagree
the spelling may be atrocious, however, as I just arrived in Singapore this morning from Kuala Limpur (took the red eye train).... hoping tonight to make a Silat class..... it may be a chessy excuse for poor spelling but they spell a little different over here....teksi is taxi, motosikal is motorcycle, and bas is bus...... and the Queen's English is the closest to any official English that exists.... In some ways, this forum is where I go when I want some of the flavor of home....God Bless you all, except OBL, there is a special place in hell for that dude...Peace ATH
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gmattson
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Reasons Women would want to Train in Martial Arts
Hi Todd:
Great response. Good reasoning too!
Drop in to Van's forum and check the thread written by Laird regarding losing training partners when they must spar.
As teachers, we must be very aware of underlying reasons students train and quit. I discover that many students I lost in the past, ended up at other dojo or training in other styles. . . Mostly because I attempted to make everyone conform to my personal training objectives instead of trying to understand and help students achieve their goals.
There isn't a "model" of Uechi-ryu to fit all sizes. Teachers must allow students to advance at their own level. Yes, we push and motivate them to go beyond what they think is possible, but we try not to cross that line where we push them out of the dojo.
Don't be a stranger Todd. . . Please report on your visit to Singapore.
------------------
GEM
Great response. Good reasoning too!
Drop in to Van's forum and check the thread written by Laird regarding losing training partners when they must spar.
As teachers, we must be very aware of underlying reasons students train and quit. I discover that many students I lost in the past, ended up at other dojo or training in other styles. . . Mostly because I attempted to make everyone conform to my personal training objectives instead of trying to understand and help students achieve their goals.
There isn't a "model" of Uechi-ryu to fit all sizes. Teachers must allow students to advance at their own level. Yes, we push and motivate them to go beyond what they think is possible, but we try not to cross that line where we push them out of the dojo.
Don't be a stranger Todd. . . Please report on your visit to Singapore.
------------------
GEM
Reasons Women would want to Train in Martial Arts
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote
If we persist in molding the average student to our image or beliefs, he will be long gone.
The answer is to be knowledgeable, and honest with the student once learning his unique motivation for stepping over your dojo's threshold.
Don't make false promises or he will hate you forever.
In other words__ don't BS him about what he will or will not be able to accomplish with what you have to offer in relation to his physical and emotional makeup, wants and needs.
Some students do very well for themselves just practicing kata. Leave those people alone.
Then let the student choose his own path within his limitations. We all have limitations__ student and teacher.
------------------
Van Canna
[This message has been edited by Van Canna (edited January 15, 2002).]
Well said, and a lesson hard to learn.There isn't a "model" of Uechi-ryu to fit all sizes. Teachers must allow students to advance at their own level. Yes, we push and motivate them to go beyond what they think is possible, but we try not to cross that line where we push them out of the dojo.
If we persist in molding the average student to our image or beliefs, he will be long gone.
The answer is to be knowledgeable, and honest with the student once learning his unique motivation for stepping over your dojo's threshold.
Don't make false promises or he will hate you forever.
In other words__ don't BS him about what he will or will not be able to accomplish with what you have to offer in relation to his physical and emotional makeup, wants and needs.
Some students do very well for themselves just practicing kata. Leave those people alone.
Then let the student choose his own path within his limitations. We all have limitations__ student and teacher.
------------------
Van Canna
[This message has been edited by Van Canna (edited January 15, 2002).]
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Akil Todd Harvey
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Reasons Women would want to Train in Martial Arts
A few additions (as if I had not written too much already)..... I have had some time to think about the last post and want to make sure at least the majority of what I have to say is relevant to the topic at hand.
These forums can be awesome and they can be aweful. I think most of us realize (sometimes only the next day) that the biggest danger of the forum is mis-communication that can occur. Someone says the sky is blue and the next person says no, sometimes the sky is not blue. and prety soon we are using our verbal jujitsu to .... back to the training ....
Why does any one of us continue to train versus why did we begin training in the first place. This issue is important because if our goals change, need the instruction or the training change? It is generally accepted that training of intermediate and advanced students is different from that of beginners.
Borrowing the reasoning from several of the women (especially paraphrasing dejsis),
the goals many had were....
1) Excercise.
2) Self defense
3) Community
4) The "feel good" factor (confidence building, etc.)
I wonder if any Uechi-instructor has tried the following (I have been seriously considering doing something along these lines).... Take a Uechi beginner class and modify it such that it is more in appearance to that of a martial arts aerobics class (answers may be submitted anonomously).
Such a class need not be made up solely of begining students or women. It could be a fun and interesting break in the training regime (read routine).
The potentially beneficial aspects of such Uechi-robics (I hereby give up any trademark claim to the name Uechi-robics so long as I can make use of it myself) could be significant. Although Bruce Hirabayashi may be avoiding massive commercial ventures at this point, many uechi teachers are seeking ways to increase the number of students at their classes (especially women).
The potential benefits seem to be (in my dreams)......
1) immediate increase in enrollment in the Uechi-robics program
2) long term increase in enrollment in the traditonal Uechi-program (especially of women) as the Uechi-robics program can act as a bridge to the traditional Uechi-ryu training. This has yet to be seen, but I think it should be tried.
I theorize that it could work in the follwoing ways.....
The students in the Uechi-robics program would find the transition to the traditional program much easier than just jumping in a beginner Uechi class.
1) The majority of moves would no longer be weird, strange, unfamiliar.
2) They would already know some of the people and some of the faces (thus instantly providing the comraderie factor)
3) This is a hope....that long term there would come to be a peer pressure to at least try the traditional Uechi classes as soime of the uechi-robicvs students becaome successful and pressured their less inclined friends to join the "regular" Uechi class.....
I have always been an optimist and perhaps I am really pushing the envelope here.....but....
I am not trying to bash traditional Uechi or Okinawan society, but I would hazard to guess that one of the reasons there is so much difficulty getting women to come into or stay in Uechi-Ryu is because the traditions that we follow today are from a time when few women practiced the arts that were handed down. I dont know the history as much as I should and there is a great history of women in martial arts. but for sure the storuies of Uechi-Ryu history that I learned never included the daughters, wives, nieces, or aunts praticing the art (although I bet they knew more than we know about).......
I cannot finish all my thoughts now....I have business meeting with my wife and several others and if I dont head out now she will do some attack to my head......
Peace to you all and please laugh with me at my ideas, not at them
These forums can be awesome and they can be aweful. I think most of us realize (sometimes only the next day) that the biggest danger of the forum is mis-communication that can occur. Someone says the sky is blue and the next person says no, sometimes the sky is not blue. and prety soon we are using our verbal jujitsu to .... back to the training ....
Why does any one of us continue to train versus why did we begin training in the first place. This issue is important because if our goals change, need the instruction or the training change? It is generally accepted that training of intermediate and advanced students is different from that of beginners.
Borrowing the reasoning from several of the women (especially paraphrasing dejsis),
the goals many had were....
1) Excercise.
2) Self defense
3) Community
4) The "feel good" factor (confidence building, etc.)
I wonder if any Uechi-instructor has tried the following (I have been seriously considering doing something along these lines).... Take a Uechi beginner class and modify it such that it is more in appearance to that of a martial arts aerobics class (answers may be submitted anonomously).
Such a class need not be made up solely of begining students or women. It could be a fun and interesting break in the training regime (read routine).
The potentially beneficial aspects of such Uechi-robics (I hereby give up any trademark claim to the name Uechi-robics so long as I can make use of it myself) could be significant. Although Bruce Hirabayashi may be avoiding massive commercial ventures at this point, many uechi teachers are seeking ways to increase the number of students at their classes (especially women).
The potential benefits seem to be (in my dreams)......
1) immediate increase in enrollment in the Uechi-robics program
2) long term increase in enrollment in the traditonal Uechi-program (especially of women) as the Uechi-robics program can act as a bridge to the traditional Uechi-ryu training. This has yet to be seen, but I think it should be tried.
I theorize that it could work in the follwoing ways.....
The students in the Uechi-robics program would find the transition to the traditional program much easier than just jumping in a beginner Uechi class.
1) The majority of moves would no longer be weird, strange, unfamiliar.
2) They would already know some of the people and some of the faces (thus instantly providing the comraderie factor)
3) This is a hope....that long term there would come to be a peer pressure to at least try the traditional Uechi classes as soime of the uechi-robicvs students becaome successful and pressured their less inclined friends to join the "regular" Uechi class.....
I have always been an optimist and perhaps I am really pushing the envelope here.....but....
I am not trying to bash traditional Uechi or Okinawan society, but I would hazard to guess that one of the reasons there is so much difficulty getting women to come into or stay in Uechi-Ryu is because the traditions that we follow today are from a time when few women practiced the arts that were handed down. I dont know the history as much as I should and there is a great history of women in martial arts. but for sure the storuies of Uechi-Ryu history that I learned never included the daughters, wives, nieces, or aunts praticing the art (although I bet they knew more than we know about).......
I cannot finish all my thoughts now....I have business meeting with my wife and several others and if I dont head out now she will do some attack to my head......
Peace to you all and please laugh with me at my ideas, not at them
Reasons Women would want to Train in Martial Arts
Last summer, I was given some excellant advice from Dana on how to recruit women for my dojo.
Since that time, I have had a better understanding of why women want to study martial arts and almost all of the reasons were already stated above.
As for the reason that women will quit the study of any Martial Art I find this quote to be most accurate:
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote
I met a really nice couple, husband and wife, who are both Nidans in a different martial arts style. They are also instructors at their dojo. After I had told them I was in Uechi-ryu, the woman said, "Oh yea that is the bang em up style?" The first thing that came to her mind was that we were only training to hurt other people while practicing. "Too realistic for me." she went on to say. "I cant take that kind of pounding anymore at my age (she is 45)."
IMHO, It is the realistic training that keeps me coming back for more.
I started karate training for a different reason though. I wanted to be able to use my newly aquired skills in concentration and agility for the other sports that I was involved with. After a few years of training, I began to see that the Uechi-ryu skills I was aquiring was also making me more confidant in my dealings with people in general. I felt able to go anywhere and face anything that may arise due to the greater confidence that I had about my ability to defend myself.
Whenever I get a prospect in for an interview, female or male, I have them fill out a questioneer asking for the reasons that they want to study the martial arts. Every reason that was stated in the previous posts are on the form.
When I review their answers I comment how we (my instructors and I) build our curriculum for individual training. We try to accomodate all the reasons that anyone wants to study with us.
There is no pressure for a student to spar if their reason for joining is exercise only.
If a female student expresses a desire to learn to defend against assaults, I explain that this type of training requires practice in realistic scenarios that may require her to condition her body for many years. She will learn the defenses needed to thwart a assault but must realise that "realistic" training comes with "realistic pain."
I suggest that she becomes a martial artist first by using the entire curriculum we have set up and then gradually as she becomes more proficient in the movements, and her level of pain tolerance rises, we introuduce "realistic scenarios."
If she is only concerned with studying the martial arts for exercise, self-esteem, focus, and agility, then that is quite alright with us. We know her limitations and we will adjust our curriculum to make sure that she gets the proper training that she is paying for. She wil not be expected to spar with the "brutes" and she will not be asked to condition her body to the level of the TC Class members.
As for Cardio Kickboxing, Tae Bo, Karatecise, or Uechicise, I do not offer these types of classes anymore. I had offered a Cardio Kickboxing class for almost a year. It met twice a week on Tuesday and Thursday. The first class was split between karate students and women who were just there for these special classes. The karate students did not take the classes again. They saw no benefit other than aerobic exercise. The women who wanted to do the aerobics exercise were not concerned with learning how defend themselves. We had about 5 women who were regulars. The attendance was usually between 3 and 8 and after the holiday season arrived it dwindled down to 3. It was not cost effective for us to continue with these classes and we dropped them.
A great business phrase that can be used for any business and one that is overlooked by most martial arts schools is this:
Know what your customer wants, then meet and exceed their expectations.
------------------
Len
Since that time, I have had a better understanding of why women want to study martial arts and almost all of the reasons were already stated above.
As for the reason that women will quit the study of any Martial Art I find this quote to be most accurate:
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote
"Too realistic!" BINGOAs for the "why Uechi" question, it's a little bit more complicated. I believe, many women would find Uechi too rough, too "up close and personal", too realistic.
I met a really nice couple, husband and wife, who are both Nidans in a different martial arts style. They are also instructors at their dojo. After I had told them I was in Uechi-ryu, the woman said, "Oh yea that is the bang em up style?" The first thing that came to her mind was that we were only training to hurt other people while practicing. "Too realistic for me." she went on to say. "I cant take that kind of pounding anymore at my age (she is 45)."
IMHO, It is the realistic training that keeps me coming back for more.
I started karate training for a different reason though. I wanted to be able to use my newly aquired skills in concentration and agility for the other sports that I was involved with. After a few years of training, I began to see that the Uechi-ryu skills I was aquiring was also making me more confidant in my dealings with people in general. I felt able to go anywhere and face anything that may arise due to the greater confidence that I had about my ability to defend myself.
Whenever I get a prospect in for an interview, female or male, I have them fill out a questioneer asking for the reasons that they want to study the martial arts. Every reason that was stated in the previous posts are on the form.
When I review their answers I comment how we (my instructors and I) build our curriculum for individual training. We try to accomodate all the reasons that anyone wants to study with us.
There is no pressure for a student to spar if their reason for joining is exercise only.
If a female student expresses a desire to learn to defend against assaults, I explain that this type of training requires practice in realistic scenarios that may require her to condition her body for many years. She will learn the defenses needed to thwart a assault but must realise that "realistic" training comes with "realistic pain."
I suggest that she becomes a martial artist first by using the entire curriculum we have set up and then gradually as she becomes more proficient in the movements, and her level of pain tolerance rises, we introuduce "realistic scenarios."
If she is only concerned with studying the martial arts for exercise, self-esteem, focus, and agility, then that is quite alright with us. We know her limitations and we will adjust our curriculum to make sure that she gets the proper training that she is paying for. She wil not be expected to spar with the "brutes" and she will not be asked to condition her body to the level of the TC Class members.
As for Cardio Kickboxing, Tae Bo, Karatecise, or Uechicise, I do not offer these types of classes anymore. I had offered a Cardio Kickboxing class for almost a year. It met twice a week on Tuesday and Thursday. The first class was split between karate students and women who were just there for these special classes. The karate students did not take the classes again. They saw no benefit other than aerobic exercise. The women who wanted to do the aerobics exercise were not concerned with learning how defend themselves. We had about 5 women who were regulars. The attendance was usually between 3 and 8 and after the holiday season arrived it dwindled down to 3. It was not cost effective for us to continue with these classes and we dropped them.
A great business phrase that can be used for any business and one that is overlooked by most martial arts schools is this:
Know what your customer wants, then meet and exceed their expectations.
------------------
Len
-
Akil Todd Harvey
- Posts: 790
- Joined: Sun Feb 11, 2001 6:01 am
- Location: Tallahassee, FL
- Contact:
Reasons Women would want to Train in Martial Arts
Sensei Testa,
I remember well the thread to which you alude and had been sub-consciously hoping you would respond so I could hear of your progress.
What have been the long term results of your use of the survey and building the women's changing facilities (I presume you have completed them by now)? Have you dramatically increased the number of women in your classes?
*****I met a really nice couple....both Nidans in a different style. also instructors at their dojo. After I had told them I was in Uechi-ryu, the woman said, "Oh yea that is the bang em up style?" **** lol lol lol I have trouble finding anyone on the left (er West) coast who has even heard of Uechi-Ryu, much less knows enough about it to put it down....
Sensei Canna,
I wish I could respond to everything....
****Then let the student choose his own path within his limitations. We all have limitations__ student and teacher. ****
As both student and occasional teacher, I find this to be more true than I like to admit. I am still working on the hard lessons. Thanks for responding.
I was wondering......thinking back to the expression "hard will be defeated by soft, soft will be defeated by half hard-half soft, and half hard will be defeated by soft" (did I get that right?). Does practicing a half hard-half soft martial art like Uechi-Ryu presumably give us the full reportoire of hard, soft and half n half?
Is the above just an expression that has little practical meaning?
In my practice, I have made conscious attempts to try to acquire the ability to do all three levels of hardness. One thing I really like about the expression (hoping this really works all the while)is that it does not say hard (or soft, etc) runs around demolishing everyone. It says it will be defeated. What that means to me is that a hard aggression will be defeated by a soft defense and so on.....
Most of it made sense, except it took a long time to figure out what was a soft attack. A friend once went to NYC and was attacked in a soft manner (a woman begging began to cling on to him physically in a manner trying to elicit some money from him). Not wanting to hurt the woman, but wanting to get away, he ended up dragging her down the street a ways before extricating himself (thus applying a seemingly soft defense to a soft attack). While he was not physically injured, he later found several fifty dollard bills to be missing from his pocket. In my not so perfect 20-20 hindsight, this soft attack seemed to require an immediate hard response to repel the woman (not trying to denigrate women here in their own forum).....
Sensei Mattson,
You busy beaver, where do you get the time? I often have the time to view some of the forums, but only rarely do I have time to respond to them
I might train in other styles, but you will never lose me. I went to a Silat class at a community center in Singapore the other night, hoping to observe. There was a woman instructor who asked me a series of questions, where I lived, did I want to train with her? etc. I said I wanted to watch and she sent me away. I have the feeling if I had said I wanted to participate that evening, she would have said I should observe and if I said I wanted to observe she would send me away as she tried. Since they were working out on the basketball court outdoors, I found a place otuside the CC from which to observe, rationalizing as an American, that it was a free country and recalling that, in fact, it was less than a free country. I am pretty sure she knew I was watching, but I was far enough away to not be a nuisance (or at least make a quick get away). I would have not been so eager to watch against her wishes if I could just find a decent book about Silat. I have been looking for a book on Silat for several weeks now, in both Singapore and Malaysia without success. I do realize there are lots of vidoes available on Silat in the U.S. I seem to have a preference for books, despite their obvious limitations.
An interesting note about Singapore and self defense. Because it is such a safe place (very low rates of violent crime), very few people seem to feel the need to practice martial arts with the exception of Tai Chi. Tai Chi is very popular every morning in the parks.
Peace, ATH
I remember well the thread to which you alude and had been sub-consciously hoping you would respond so I could hear of your progress.
What have been the long term results of your use of the survey and building the women's changing facilities (I presume you have completed them by now)? Have you dramatically increased the number of women in your classes?
*****I met a really nice couple....both Nidans in a different style. also instructors at their dojo. After I had told them I was in Uechi-ryu, the woman said, "Oh yea that is the bang em up style?" **** lol lol lol I have trouble finding anyone on the left (er West) coast who has even heard of Uechi-Ryu, much less knows enough about it to put it down....
Sensei Canna,
I wish I could respond to everything....
****Then let the student choose his own path within his limitations. We all have limitations__ student and teacher. ****
As both student and occasional teacher, I find this to be more true than I like to admit. I am still working on the hard lessons. Thanks for responding.
I was wondering......thinking back to the expression "hard will be defeated by soft, soft will be defeated by half hard-half soft, and half hard will be defeated by soft" (did I get that right?). Does practicing a half hard-half soft martial art like Uechi-Ryu presumably give us the full reportoire of hard, soft and half n half?
Is the above just an expression that has little practical meaning?
In my practice, I have made conscious attempts to try to acquire the ability to do all three levels of hardness. One thing I really like about the expression (hoping this really works all the while)is that it does not say hard (or soft, etc) runs around demolishing everyone. It says it will be defeated. What that means to me is that a hard aggression will be defeated by a soft defense and so on.....
Most of it made sense, except it took a long time to figure out what was a soft attack. A friend once went to NYC and was attacked in a soft manner (a woman begging began to cling on to him physically in a manner trying to elicit some money from him). Not wanting to hurt the woman, but wanting to get away, he ended up dragging her down the street a ways before extricating himself (thus applying a seemingly soft defense to a soft attack). While he was not physically injured, he later found several fifty dollard bills to be missing from his pocket. In my not so perfect 20-20 hindsight, this soft attack seemed to require an immediate hard response to repel the woman (not trying to denigrate women here in their own forum).....
Sensei Mattson,
You busy beaver, where do you get the time? I often have the time to view some of the forums, but only rarely do I have time to respond to them
I might train in other styles, but you will never lose me. I went to a Silat class at a community center in Singapore the other night, hoping to observe. There was a woman instructor who asked me a series of questions, where I lived, did I want to train with her? etc. I said I wanted to watch and she sent me away. I have the feeling if I had said I wanted to participate that evening, she would have said I should observe and if I said I wanted to observe she would send me away as she tried. Since they were working out on the basketball court outdoors, I found a place otuside the CC from which to observe, rationalizing as an American, that it was a free country and recalling that, in fact, it was less than a free country. I am pretty sure she knew I was watching, but I was far enough away to not be a nuisance (or at least make a quick get away). I would have not been so eager to watch against her wishes if I could just find a decent book about Silat. I have been looking for a book on Silat for several weeks now, in both Singapore and Malaysia without success. I do realize there are lots of vidoes available on Silat in the U.S. I seem to have a preference for books, despite their obvious limitations.
An interesting note about Singapore and self defense. Because it is such a safe place (very low rates of violent crime), very few people seem to feel the need to practice martial arts with the exception of Tai Chi. Tai Chi is very popular every morning in the parks.
Peace, ATH
Reasons Women would want to Train in Martial Arts
ATH
I have had 4 adult female students join the BUKA since I have built the women's dressing room. Two 16 year olds, a 14 year old and a 24 year old.
Only one has quit after her 3 month introductory period. (A 16 year old)
Two are white belts with 3 stripes and the other is a white belt with 1 stripe.
The most senior women (16 year old) broke her ankle the week after Christmas (at home) and hasnt been in the dojo since.
BTW none of the ladies use the dressing room very much, preferring instead to wear their karate gi to class.
I have a 7 year old girl who uses the dressing room almost all the time.
I guess that the success I have had in recruiting these women has been the presence of the other women who were already in class.
When women come in and see other women already there, they are more apt to give it a try.
------------------
Len
I have had 4 adult female students join the BUKA since I have built the women's dressing room. Two 16 year olds, a 14 year old and a 24 year old.
Only one has quit after her 3 month introductory period. (A 16 year old)
Two are white belts with 3 stripes and the other is a white belt with 1 stripe.
The most senior women (16 year old) broke her ankle the week after Christmas (at home) and hasnt been in the dojo since.
BTW none of the ladies use the dressing room very much, preferring instead to wear their karate gi to class.
I have a 7 year old girl who uses the dressing room almost all the time.
I guess that the success I have had in recruiting these women has been the presence of the other women who were already in class.
When women come in and see other women already there, they are more apt to give it a try.
------------------
Len
Reasons Women would want to Train in Martial Arts
A friend, who's father knew several forms and Uechi right from Okinawa first introduced me and opened a door in my life which can never be closed. For that I thank her immensely. For me it is a discipline, fun, and so many things; all good.
I had a total jerk of a now ex husband, so things like bruises I got used to. It was Uechi that kept me from "defending" myself and ever touching him. I know that sounds odd, but it's true. BIG guy and I'm only about 5'. I think part of it was knowing that what he said did not necessarily mean he was really going to follow through with it every time. Uechi I believe taught me to know the difference, and how to take it physically when things did get rough. When he would get physical, I'd dodge him. Most of the time when the cops would get called they'd just yell at me that if I said one word I'd be arrested and they would never arrest him or atleast make him leave, no one would help me. Only by a miracle did he finally leave, after years of him and his friends. I truely believe it was Uechi that kept me alive. Now Uechi is helping me heal emotionally, mentally, and physically. I think it can be applied to every aspect of life. From simple respect to everyone to "what if" situations. I do it for me, I don't do competitions, I don't "need" to... my experiences in the past were enough for me to know that I am at peace with myself and unmoving, no matter what.
So, I have a bit of an odd story, probably not the usual your looking for. Hope it helps, I've found so much information of how much abuse happens, now that my ex is gone, it's sickening.
They friend who first started teaching me was also into meditation especially with nice relaxing music, and tai chi as Karate exercises. I like to burn insense, I find it relaxing.
Getting in shape is definitely something that happens with Karate, it's a healthy way of life.
It is like a dance, with the Katas; another part of it I enjoy. So, to anyone male or female who ever took a little ballet, tap, clogging,... or was ever interested I bet they'd enjoy Karate.
As for "turn off's" for women, it's difficult for me to find any. I always wanted to learn. I used to beg my parents for lessons, but they thought it was just about the physical aspect. I know it's great for confidence; you stand up straight, sit tall, and walk like a model.
I think it's wonderfull that you have a dojo and teach others!
-Shikar
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Bruce Hirabayashi:
I run a small Uechi-ryu dojo in out of my basement in the Atlanta area. Today my wife called me at work to tell me that one of our neighbors, Melissa, had told her that she and 7 other women were very interested in starting martial arts. My wife had told her that I taught martial arts, so Melissa wanted to know if I would be interested in teaching her group.
Somewhat skeptical, but intrigued at the prospect of more than doubling my dojo headcount in one fell swoop (can you tell I'm in corporate finance? ), I decided to give Melissa a call. I asked her about her group's goals. She said she and her friends really wanted to lose weight and get in shape; also it would be neat if they could learn a little about self-defense at the same time. She told me they were mostly 30ish, 25 lbs. or so overweight, some from recent pregnancies and the others, well, "just because they'd gained the weight slowly over the past 10 or so years". I asked if she knew anything about Martial Arts; she said "not really".
I told Melissa that Traditional Martial Arts is somewhat like a dance class: the focus is on improving technique, concentration, focus, and mental discipline. The fact that you might get into shape (as defined by Hollywood / MTV / muscle magazines) is a side effect rather than a primary goal.
The conversation continued to gnaw at me for an hour after I hung up ... I felt a vague sense of dissatisfaction. Had I been too quick in leading Melissa to the conclusion that Uechi, as a traditional martial art, was probably not the right vehicle to achieve her group's goals? Did I sell Uechi's virtues short? Should I have spent more time trying to find out if Traditional Martial Arts training would serve to fulfill any of her group's secondary objectives?
I decided to call Dana Sheets and Heather Lipin, two excellent, intelligent and insightful Uechi-ka from Bob Kaiser's Washington Karate Academy who happen to be women. I explained the situation to them then posed a series of questions, which can be summarized as follows:
1) Is it true that women tend to cite "losing weight" and "getting in shape" more often than men as reasons to start Martial Arts training?
2) If so, what aspects of Traditional Martial Arts training would attract women to choose it rather than training in the other 3 categories?
3) What aspects of Traditional Martial Arts training tend to be initial "turn-offs" for women? Or restated, which misgivings do women in particular tend to have about Traditional Martial Arts training that should I try to address up front?
Both Dana and Heather had very thoughtful answers; answers I won't repeat here as they would do a much better job of posting their answers themselves (hint, hint).
I appreciate any insights others may have on this topic ... particularly women who have not been training very long.
Thanks,
Bruce Hirabayashi
Rokudan
Atlanta Uechi-ryu
I had a total jerk of a now ex husband, so things like bruises I got used to. It was Uechi that kept me from "defending" myself and ever touching him. I know that sounds odd, but it's true. BIG guy and I'm only about 5'. I think part of it was knowing that what he said did not necessarily mean he was really going to follow through with it every time. Uechi I believe taught me to know the difference, and how to take it physically when things did get rough. When he would get physical, I'd dodge him. Most of the time when the cops would get called they'd just yell at me that if I said one word I'd be arrested and they would never arrest him or atleast make him leave, no one would help me. Only by a miracle did he finally leave, after years of him and his friends. I truely believe it was Uechi that kept me alive. Now Uechi is helping me heal emotionally, mentally, and physically. I think it can be applied to every aspect of life. From simple respect to everyone to "what if" situations. I do it for me, I don't do competitions, I don't "need" to... my experiences in the past were enough for me to know that I am at peace with myself and unmoving, no matter what.
So, I have a bit of an odd story, probably not the usual your looking for. Hope it helps, I've found so much information of how much abuse happens, now that my ex is gone, it's sickening.
They friend who first started teaching me was also into meditation especially with nice relaxing music, and tai chi as Karate exercises. I like to burn insense, I find it relaxing.
Getting in shape is definitely something that happens with Karate, it's a healthy way of life.
It is like a dance, with the Katas; another part of it I enjoy. So, to anyone male or female who ever took a little ballet, tap, clogging,... or was ever interested I bet they'd enjoy Karate.
As for "turn off's" for women, it's difficult for me to find any. I always wanted to learn. I used to beg my parents for lessons, but they thought it was just about the physical aspect. I know it's great for confidence; you stand up straight, sit tall, and walk like a model.
I think it's wonderfull that you have a dojo and teach others!
-Shikar
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Bruce Hirabayashi:
I run a small Uechi-ryu dojo in out of my basement in the Atlanta area. Today my wife called me at work to tell me that one of our neighbors, Melissa, had told her that she and 7 other women were very interested in starting martial arts. My wife had told her that I taught martial arts, so Melissa wanted to know if I would be interested in teaching her group.
Somewhat skeptical, but intrigued at the prospect of more than doubling my dojo headcount in one fell swoop (can you tell I'm in corporate finance?
), I decided to give Melissa a call. I asked her about her group's goals. She said she and her friends really wanted to lose weight and get in shape; also it would be neat if they could learn a little about self-defense at the same time. She told me they were mostly 30ish, 25 lbs. or so overweight, some from recent pregnancies and the others, well, "just because they'd gained the weight slowly over the past 10 or so years". I asked if she knew anything about Martial Arts; she said "not really".I told Melissa that Traditional Martial Arts is somewhat like a dance class: the focus is on improving technique, concentration, focus, and mental discipline. The fact that you might get into shape (as defined by Hollywood / MTV / muscle magazines) is a side effect rather than a primary goal.
The conversation continued to gnaw at me for an hour after I hung up ... I felt a vague sense of dissatisfaction. Had I been too quick in leading Melissa to the conclusion that Uechi, as a traditional martial art, was probably not the right vehicle to achieve her group's goals? Did I sell Uechi's virtues short? Should I have spent more time trying to find out if Traditional Martial Arts training would serve to fulfill any of her group's secondary objectives?
I decided to call Dana Sheets and Heather Lipin, two excellent, intelligent and insightful Uechi-ka from Bob Kaiser's Washington Karate Academy who happen to be women. I explained the situation to them then posed a series of questions, which can be summarized as follows:
1) Is it true that women tend to cite "losing weight" and "getting in shape" more often than men as reasons to start Martial Arts training?
2) If so, what aspects of Traditional Martial Arts training would attract women to choose it rather than training in the other 3 categories?
3) What aspects of Traditional Martial Arts training tend to be initial "turn-offs" for women? Or restated, which misgivings do women in particular tend to have about Traditional Martial Arts training that should I try to address up front?
Both Dana and Heather had very thoughtful answers; answers I won't repeat here as they would do a much better job of posting their answers themselves (hint, hint).
I appreciate any insights others may have on this topic ... particularly women who have not been training very long.
Thanks,
Bruce Hirabayashi
Rokudan
Atlanta Uechi-ryu
