I've noticed lately as I've been doing warm-up and other exercises that I really do have a dominant arm. For example, I'm right handed and it just seems I do a lot better with my right arm. When I punch with my left arm I feel I lose a little more control and power. I can't seem to get it as on target where I wanted the first time around, and it doesn't have as much strength.
Does this come with time? I've have not been in Karate for very long so maybe it develops and I'm just not there yet. This was just something I was pondering. If I may relate it to something else; I know with soccer you have a kind of dominant foot. You will hear many players say they are "right-footed," or that they can't kick with their left. It's usually true to. It takes alot of practice to use both feet equally well. Could this tie over into Karate?
Is there anything I could do to work on building up that other arm? Should I work on trying so do more strength training on the left side?
Who knows, maybe I'm crazy. I've never really heard this addressed and was wondering if anyone else had ever noticed this when they began training.
Please let me know anything of reference. It would intrest me alot so see if anyone has any opinions on this.
Thanks.
another lowly white belt, (actually yellow now though),
Kate
dominant arm?
Moderator: Available
dominant arm?
Kt: I don't think strength training would help as much as you might think, especially when you think the power of your strike should becoming from your legs and not your arms. The reason your left doesn't feel as good as your right is just that your not used to using it. I'll go out on a limb here and say 99% of the people studying MA go through the same thing. The cure? Repetition. Get in front of a heavy bag, or focus mitt and punch it with your left until your arm falls off, eventually it will start to feel more natural.
dominant arm?
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Kt:
Does this come with time? I've have not been in Karate for very long so maybe it develops and I'm just not there yet. This was just something I was pondering.
{snippage}
It takes alot of practice to use both feet equally well. Could this tie over into Karate?
Is there anything I could do to work on building up that other arm? Should I work on trying so do more strength training on the left side?
Who knows, maybe I'm crazy. I've never really heard this addressed and was wondering if anyone else had ever noticed this when they began training.
Please let me know anything of reference. It would intrest me alot so see if anyone has any opinions on this.
another lowly white belt, (actually yellow now though)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Kate,
Here's my 2 yen's worth...
Unless someone is born ambidexterous, they have a dominant side. That dominant side carries over into everything they do and if there is enough practice for long enough, someone can train themselves to be essentially ambidexterous. You're not crazy by any stretch...
The way to overcome (at least partially) a dominant side is not to overwork the subdominant side, but to make very, very certain that each and every technique is balanced.
How often do you go into the dojo and see someone practicing their, say... migi mawashi geri (right roundhouse kick)? How many kicks on the hidari (left) side do they do compared to the right side? It's only natural to do what feels the most comfortable and if someone is right side dominant, they will naturally do right side techniques because they feel more comfortable.
The trick is to make sure that every time you do 100 migi yoko geri (right side kick), you also do 100 hidari yoko geri (left side kick). They will get more comfortable and easier over time. Eventually, perhaps during kumite, perhaps during a real world (tm) self-defense situation, you will naturally use the subdominant technique, because that will be the side you need to use.
This doesn't just go for punches, kicks and blocks, but also for stances, combinations, self-defense techniques and kihon kumite...
Strength training must also be completely balanced. If you work with weights, make certain that you do just as many reps and just as much weight with your subdominant side as with your dominant side. Over time, the muscles will reach the same strength and will be balanced. Balance all of your training to be equal for both sides and more than just your kara-te will benefit.
As in life, balance is the key.
Panther
(who learns from anyone no matter what color their belt is... mine? Ummm.... today it's a nice black custom-made leather one that holds up my pants very well. )
Does this come with time? I've have not been in Karate for very long so maybe it develops and I'm just not there yet. This was just something I was pondering.
{snippage}
It takes alot of practice to use both feet equally well. Could this tie over into Karate?
Is there anything I could do to work on building up that other arm? Should I work on trying so do more strength training on the left side?
Who knows, maybe I'm crazy. I've never really heard this addressed and was wondering if anyone else had ever noticed this when they began training.
Please let me know anything of reference. It would intrest me alot so see if anyone has any opinions on this.
another lowly white belt, (actually yellow now though)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Kate,
Here's my 2 yen's worth...
Unless someone is born ambidexterous, they have a dominant side. That dominant side carries over into everything they do and if there is enough practice for long enough, someone can train themselves to be essentially ambidexterous. You're not crazy by any stretch...
The way to overcome (at least partially) a dominant side is not to overwork the subdominant side, but to make very, very certain that each and every technique is balanced.
How often do you go into the dojo and see someone practicing their, say... migi mawashi geri (right roundhouse kick)? How many kicks on the hidari (left) side do they do compared to the right side? It's only natural to do what feels the most comfortable and if someone is right side dominant, they will naturally do right side techniques because they feel more comfortable.
The trick is to make sure that every time you do 100 migi yoko geri (right side kick), you also do 100 hidari yoko geri (left side kick). They will get more comfortable and easier over time. Eventually, perhaps during kumite, perhaps during a real world (tm) self-defense situation, you will naturally use the subdominant technique, because that will be the side you need to use.
This doesn't just go for punches, kicks and blocks, but also for stances, combinations, self-defense techniques and kihon kumite...
Strength training must also be completely balanced. If you work with weights, make certain that you do just as many reps and just as much weight with your subdominant side as with your dominant side. Over time, the muscles will reach the same strength and will be balanced. Balance all of your training to be equal for both sides and more than just your kara-te will benefit.
As in life, balance is the key.
Panther
(who learns from anyone no matter what color their belt is... mine? Ummm.... today it's a nice black custom-made leather one that holds up my pants very well.
)-
Bill Glasheen
- Posts: 17299
- Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
- Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY
dominant arm?
Great advice here, and I agree with everyone about it being "common".
Kt Just to confirm what you are saying, how many baseball pitchers do you know that pitch off of both arms (will change from right hand to left hand when a lefty comes to bat)? How many tennis players do you know switch the tennis raquet so they can do forehand from either side? How many rock musicians that you know of (other than Hendricks) will switch a guitar over from one side to the next from song to song or within songs?
The side dominance is both physiologic and anatomic. It is predetermined at birth. And by the way, did you know that you also have a dominant eye? Anyone who had done shooting (properly) learns this pretty quickly. Why do we have a dominant side? It's not clear, but we can guess. In general, a group of individuals do better performing a task if they specialize or play roles. By having a dominant side, the sub-dominant can specialize in activities that help the dominant one. So it's probable that we get a better overall result when allowing different parts of our body to specialize in the tasks that they perform.
Do the Uechiryu kata play to this theme of dominance? Sanchin doesn't, but every other kata does. There are no steps into left horse stances in the system, or elbow strikes off the left side. There are no hammer fists off the left. There are no kicks off the right leg in the original three, and so on. So the Uechi kata - and in particular the original three - play to dominance in much the same way that Western Boxing plays to it. Jab with the left, cross with the right, slide in left stance...
Is it useful to train for ambidexterity in a manner suggested above? For self defense, absolutely. In real life, s*** happens. What do you do if you break your right hand on the first punch, call for time? Better have a left to back it up! And it's never good to be too predictable.
The only thing I can add to the excellent advice given above is that you should always train the sub-dominant side FIRST. If you are going to hit the bag with reverse punches, righties should first hit ten times with the left, and then switch stances and do ten times with the right. This will get you over the frustration of it not feeling right. You will be less likely to say "heck with this" and skip working on what you need to practice.
I agree 100% with Panther about the balance thing.
- Bill
Kt Just to confirm what you are saying, how many baseball pitchers do you know that pitch off of both arms (will change from right hand to left hand when a lefty comes to bat)? How many tennis players do you know switch the tennis raquet so they can do forehand from either side? How many rock musicians that you know of (other than Hendricks) will switch a guitar over from one side to the next from song to song or within songs?
The side dominance is both physiologic and anatomic. It is predetermined at birth. And by the way, did you know that you also have a dominant eye? Anyone who had done shooting (properly) learns this pretty quickly. Why do we have a dominant side? It's not clear, but we can guess. In general, a group of individuals do better performing a task if they specialize or play roles. By having a dominant side, the sub-dominant can specialize in activities that help the dominant one. So it's probable that we get a better overall result when allowing different parts of our body to specialize in the tasks that they perform.
Do the Uechiryu kata play to this theme of dominance? Sanchin doesn't, but every other kata does. There are no steps into left horse stances in the system, or elbow strikes off the left side. There are no hammer fists off the left. There are no kicks off the right leg in the original three, and so on. So the Uechi kata - and in particular the original three - play to dominance in much the same way that Western Boxing plays to it. Jab with the left, cross with the right, slide in left stance...
Is it useful to train for ambidexterity in a manner suggested above? For self defense, absolutely. In real life, s*** happens. What do you do if you break your right hand on the first punch, call for time? Better have a left to back it up! And it's never good to be too predictable.
The only thing I can add to the excellent advice given above is that you should always train the sub-dominant side FIRST. If you are going to hit the bag with reverse punches, righties should first hit ten times with the left, and then switch stances and do ten times with the right. This will get you over the frustration of it not feeling right. You will be less likely to say "heck with this" and skip working on what you need to practice.
I agree 100% with Panther about the balance thing.
- Bill
-
Bill Glasheen
- Posts: 17299
- Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
- Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY
dominant arm?
I wanted to add a few tidbits to this subject that others may benefit from.
First of all, I always practice kata on both sides - once the regular way, and once as if done in mirror image. This helps me with my ambidexterity. But I don't fight the tendency of the system to want to make me specialize with my techniques. Unlike with the individual movements, I always remember which kata I need to do for tests, and don't get too flustered if my mirror side isn't so good.
On the other hand, I like to do hojoundo of all salient moves of a kata just before I do the kata. I often teach that way. Kanei Uechi's hojoundo are all practiced on both sides, aren't they? This way all individual techniques are available to me when I need them, but the general tendency of my body will be to specialize. That's fine with me, and probably best.
But this practice of working both sides has benefits outside martial arts. When you practice a technique on left vs. right, you use different parts of your brain to do that. People who have strokes (a death of a certain part of the brain), need to reprogram the brain so as to re-learn what has been lost through cellular death. Research has shown that ambidextrous people recover quicker and more completely. It only makes sense that we can refer to something from the other side in our brain (if those neurons are still intact) and re-wire from that stored knowledge to create the other side. Make sense? Trust me - it works.
The brain is a bit like a muscle. Use it and it performs well. Don't use it, and you lose it. Create complexity in the exercise and you get complex abilities. The older you get, the more difficult it becomes to recover when you lose function from life's various maladies.
- Bill
First of all, I always practice kata on both sides - once the regular way, and once as if done in mirror image. This helps me with my ambidexterity. But I don't fight the tendency of the system to want to make me specialize with my techniques. Unlike with the individual movements, I always remember which kata I need to do for tests, and don't get too flustered if my mirror side isn't so good.
On the other hand, I like to do hojoundo of all salient moves of a kata just before I do the kata. I often teach that way. Kanei Uechi's hojoundo are all practiced on both sides, aren't they? This way all individual techniques are available to me when I need them, but the general tendency of my body will be to specialize. That's fine with me, and probably best.
But this practice of working both sides has benefits outside martial arts. When you practice a technique on left vs. right, you use different parts of your brain to do that. People who have strokes (a death of a certain part of the brain), need to reprogram the brain so as to re-learn what has been lost through cellular death. Research has shown that ambidextrous people recover quicker and more completely. It only makes sense that we can refer to something from the other side in our brain (if those neurons are still intact) and re-wire from that stored knowledge to create the other side. Make sense? Trust me - it works.
The brain is a bit like a muscle. Use it and it performs well. Don't use it, and you lose it. Create complexity in the exercise and you get complex abilities. The older you get, the more difficult it becomes to recover when you lose function from life's various maladies.
- Bill
-
maurice richard libby
dominant arm?
There was a studydone here in Toronto many years ago, (sorry I don't have the details)that dealt with training with what Bill calls the sub-dominant side. They found that if you trained the weak side the strong side would also improve, but if you trained the strong side there was no training effect on the weak side. The practical application is to train the weak side twice as much as you train the the strong side. For example, do as Bill suggested and do your left (weak) side first, but do twice as many.
I do this frequently, but as I am more-or-less ambidextrous, your mileage may vary.
maurice
------------------
maurice richard libby
toronto/moose jaw
ICQ9474685
Ronin at large
I do this frequently, but as I am more-or-less ambidextrous, your mileage may vary.
maurice
------------------
maurice richard libby
toronto/moose jaw
ICQ9474685
Ronin at large
-
Bill Glasheen
- Posts: 17299
- Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
- Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY
dominant arm?
Maurice
Very interesting. This crossover effect then would confirm what people find with stroke victims. In other words, one is able to draw from that weak side training area of the brain when doing the strong side area.
But does this study confirm the benefit of working twice as hard on the weak side? Was that done at all in the study?
My guess, Maruice, is that the study suggest there is no additional benefit to the weak side from working the strong side area more - because the benefit has already reached the law of diminishing returns from past experience. The weak side already has plenty to draw on in the crossover effect, and the most significant opportunity comes from developing new synaptic patterns specific to weak side use. The weak side, on the other hand, would be an undeveloped area in the brain and so the strong side would have new areas to draw from (in the crossover effect) when working the body in a relatively new way.
Make sense?
- Bill
[This message has been edited by Bill Glasheen (edited June 02, 2000).]
Very interesting. This crossover effect then would confirm what people find with stroke victims. In other words, one is able to draw from that weak side training area of the brain when doing the strong side area.
But does this study confirm the benefit of working twice as hard on the weak side? Was that done at all in the study?
My guess, Maruice, is that the study suggest there is no additional benefit to the weak side from working the strong side area more - because the benefit has already reached the law of diminishing returns from past experience. The weak side already has plenty to draw on in the crossover effect, and the most significant opportunity comes from developing new synaptic patterns specific to weak side use. The weak side, on the other hand, would be an undeveloped area in the brain and so the strong side would have new areas to draw from (in the crossover effect) when working the body in a relatively new way.
Make sense?
- Bill
[This message has been edited by Bill Glasheen (edited June 02, 2000).]
dominant arm?
Until this thread I had no idea that the Uechi kata did not practice both sides equally. As a Chung Do Kwan TKD student I study what are essentially Shotokan kata, and for the most part they do train each side equally.
We do have a knife form, and I have been careful in my training to do it mirror image as well as regularly - but not so often as the regular, I admit.
student
[This message has been edited by student (edited June 02, 2000).]
We do have a knife form, and I have been careful in my training to do it mirror image as well as regularly - but not so often as the regular, I admit.
student
[This message has been edited by student (edited June 02, 2000).]
-
maurice richard libby
dominant arm?
Bill:
You wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Very interesting. This crossover effect then would confirm what people find with stroke victims. In other words,
one is able to draw from that weak side training area of the brain when doing the strong side area.
But does this study confirm the benefit of working twice as hard on the weak side? Was that done at all in the
study?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
As I recall, yes the study did confirm the benefit of working the weak side twice as hard. It's been a while, and I can't find the reference, but it seems to me that that was the main thrust of the study.
maurice
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maurice richard libby
toronto/moose jaw
ICQ9474685
Ronin at large
You wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Very interesting. This crossover effect then would confirm what people find with stroke victims. In other words,
one is able to draw from that weak side training area of the brain when doing the strong side area.
But does this study confirm the benefit of working twice as hard on the weak side? Was that done at all in the
study?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
As I recall, yes the study did confirm the benefit of working the weak side twice as hard. It's been a while, and I can't find the reference, but it seems to me that that was the main thrust of the study.
maurice
------------------
maurice richard libby
toronto/moose jaw
ICQ9474685
Ronin at large
-
RACastanet
- Posts: 3744
- Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
- Location: Richmond, VA
dominant arm?
Just today there was an article on the front page of the Richmond paper about a discovery showing the rewiring of the brain in stroke victims. And, if trained hard enough and long enough, crippled arms can regain useful motion. Transcranial Magnetic Stimulation was used to detect the increased activity in what was thought to be irreversibly damaged areas of the brain. JD??????
As for me, I'm a natural lefty who is somewhat ambidextrous. Lack of sports equipment for lefties, Nuns in catholic schools, etc helped me to learn many things right handed. In fact, Glasheen sensei's mirror image kata do not cause me too many problems.
When I instruct facing a class, I do almost everything in mirror image, including the discussions of techniques. Sometimes I even forget to come out of the looking glass until someone reminds me.
I also use firearms right handed as I early on discoved that bolts and operating handles were all for righties. Also, most handguns, rifles and shotguns eject those hot empty cartridges to the right so a lefty occasionally gets a hot one in the face or down the shirt (OUCH). I'm left eye dominant so I must also deal with that but when I practice with firearms left handed I'm actually more accurate as a result.
Rich
As for me, I'm a natural lefty who is somewhat ambidextrous. Lack of sports equipment for lefties, Nuns in catholic schools, etc helped me to learn many things right handed. In fact, Glasheen sensei's mirror image kata do not cause me too many problems.
When I instruct facing a class, I do almost everything in mirror image, including the discussions of techniques. Sometimes I even forget to come out of the looking glass until someone reminds me.
I also use firearms right handed as I early on discoved that bolts and operating handles were all for righties. Also, most handguns, rifles and shotguns eject those hot empty cartridges to the right so a lefty occasionally gets a hot one in the face or down the shirt (OUCH). I'm left eye dominant so I must also deal with that but when I practice with firearms left handed I'm actually more accurate as a result.
Rich
dominant arm?
Excellent thread!
Thanks for starting it Kate!
Good points abound.
I too was unaware of any lack of balance in Uechi-ryu. In the Goju, Shorinji and Kenpo styles of kara-te I've studied, there is lots of balance if one is willing to work on the kata properly. However, as Glasheen-sempai noted and I can attest to, when the proverbial stuff hits the rotating device, your "uke" might be a "south-paw" or the angle of attack might be to your sub-dominant side. Best to remember that old Boy Scout motto and "Be Prepared"...
Thanks for starting it Kate!
Good points abound.
I too was unaware of any lack of balance in Uechi-ryu. In the Goju, Shorinji and Kenpo styles of kara-te I've studied, there is lots of balance if one is willing to work on the kata properly. However, as Glasheen-sempai noted and I can attest to, when the proverbial stuff hits the rotating device, your "uke" might be a "south-paw" or the angle of attack might be to your sub-dominant side. Best to remember that old Boy Scout motto and "Be Prepared"...
-
Bill Glasheen
- Posts: 17299
- Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
- Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY
dominant arm?
Student and Panther
Want to see this lack of balance? Next time you find a Uechi black belt, ask them to do the seisan jump - both ways. More often than not, you'll get a No way Jose look. Yes, I can do it both ways. But it feels better on one side, and it took years to get it right on the other.
Again, I don't think this is a bad thing. It isn't a lot different than the way they train Western Boxers. But the exercises added by Uechi Kanei suggest that it's best to be prepared, as Panther suggests.
- Bill
Want to see this lack of balance? Next time you find a Uechi black belt, ask them to do the seisan jump - both ways. More often than not, you'll get a No way Jose look. Yes, I can do it both ways. But it feels better on one side, and it took years to get it right on the other.
Again, I don't think this is a bad thing. It isn't a lot different than the way they train Western Boxers. But the exercises added by Uechi Kanei suggest that it's best to be prepared, as Panther suggests.
- Bill
