Opinions please/White Crane Kung Fu

Malcolm Wagner · Post by **Malcolm Wagner** » Tue Aug 29, 2000 12:09 am

Learned group in general, Ron Goninan (you told me to call you Ron) in particular. I recently came across a White Crane Kung Fu school not too far from my home, and was interested in visiting the school and possibly learning something about the teacher. I contacted him by phone and the interview was on---he first asked if I had prior martial arts experience, I told him I had four years in Isshinryu. He then asked my rank and why I wished to study with him. I told him Shodan, and that I wanted to learn a style which was obviously the root of my karate-style. He wanted very specific answers as to where I read that White Crane was the root of Isshinryu---I told him from the internet and from Dr. Yang Jwing Ming's books. He told me that he himself had first written about the similarities over 30 years ago. Then he told me that he would not be able to teach me anything about my roots because I had told him that I was a Shodan and obviously enjoyed teaching; he further explained that if I was teaching that I obviously had a group following me and that would interfere with my focus. I told him that I was under the impression that to teach something helped you understand the essence of an art---he told me that he didn't teach to learn more about his art but only because he loved his art so much---which I understand fully. He then told me that it was an insult to ask to learn an art with the intention of still studying another, but that he was aware that I did not know it was an insult. I told him that I was willing to come with an empty cup and to conduct myself as a beginner, which I am anyway. He told me that I could come and observe a class, that it would be several months before I even touched a uniform, and several more months before I could consider myself a student, and at least five years before he could make a judgment on whether or not I was worthy to really begin to study. All of this has really intrigued me because it sounds like a real student/teacher feeling out process which I know is of utmost importance in the conveyance of a true art. Any advice on my first visit with this gentleman, and from my rather lengthy description of our conversation, does it sound like that this man may have something to teach me?

Thank you for the space,
Malcolm Wagner

Victor · Post by **Victor** » Tue Aug 29, 2000 1:00 am

Hi Mal,

We seem to be finding ourselves everywhere.
I can't suggest the value of this instructors program, but his approach to you is 100% the same Story Ernest Rothrock told me last weekend, about his approaching Sheum Leung to study Eagle Claw 30 years ago.

Perhaps this is a traditional Chinese approach to handling those with previous training.

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Victor Smith

RA Miller · Post by **RA Miller** » Tue Aug 29, 2000 2:10 am

This is also a classic blow-off from someone who is afraid you might show them up.

But I'm just cynical.

Rory

Post by **gmattson** » Tue Aug 29, 2000 2:58 am

In all my travels, throughout the world, I've never met a genuine teacher of martial arts who turned away a sinceer student.

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GEM

slideboxer · Post by **slideboxer** » Tue Aug 29, 2000 4:46 pm

I have to agree with gmattson. I don't feel any teacher that loved their artform would deny the joy of teaching an eager and willing student.

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Mark
aBudokan Martial Arts Community
http://www.abudokan.com
"The Way on the Web"

Bill Glasheen · Post by **Bill Glasheen** » Tue Aug 29, 2000 4:57 pm

The best thing about martial arts is some of the people you meet. The worst thing about martial arts is some of the people you meet. Clearly we have to separate the art from the human being here who is in a position of power as gatekeeper of knowledge.

Personally, these kinds of mind and control games never did anything for me, no matter what the culture of origin. And I have seen them played by people of all skin colors. I guess you'll have to make a decision as to whether what he has to offer is worth all this baggage that you must deal with. You may check to see if there are other reptuatable sources for what you are trying to learn. In the information age, this is likely a viable alternative.

- Bill

student · Post by **student** » Tue Aug 29, 2000 6:36 pm

Oh wOw, Panther-San!

Can I join, too? Can I? Can I?

How soon before I get a Kewl T-shirt...?

Wu Wei · Post by **Wu Wei** » Tue Aug 29, 2000 6:42 pm

I would think your rank of Shodan in Isshin ryu shows that you are committed to martial arts training. It would be different if you had a yellow belt in five styles.

Jake Steinmann · Post by **Jake Steinmann** » Tue Aug 29, 2000 8:01 pm

This man does have something to teach you...how to be a bad teacher.

Seriously, any good instructor I've ever met a) Was willing to teach anyone who wanted to learn sooner, rather than later

b) Was willing to teach me regardless of what else I was doing with my free time.

This guy sounds like either a) a fraud, or b) a lunatic or possibly c) both.

Don't waste five years learning that this guy has nothing to teach you. Spend it learning something else...something useful.

Jake

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Defeat is worse than death. You have to live with defeat - Seal Team Slogan

Panther · Post by **Panther** » Tue Aug 29, 2000 8:06 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by student:
Oh wOw, Panther-San!

Can I join, too? Can I? Can I?

How soon before I get a Kewl T-shirt...?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

(humor module == enabled) ... IE: It's a joke!

========================

Diiiiiiirect from Popeil's labratory, Ronco, K-tel and the Nekojin-El Gato Institute of higher martial arts training comes a reply...

The grand Sifu-Soke-Shihan-Sensei (ju-roku Dan, ummmm, that's 13th degree black-belt to you mortals, but we don't need no stinkin' belts, 'cause our students wear suspenders to show their rank), keeper of the super-duper most deadly-death secrets

of the Ultimate Sino-Nihon-Okinawan-South-Central-North-American martial art, Shaolin-jitsu-ryu-Do Black Cat Gung Fu, appreciates your interest and your non-refundable money order for $69.95.

Your first subliminal, inspirational tape will arrive after your second payment... just to show us you're serious. (can't be too careful with these ultra-super-duper deadly-death chi-kung-flung-dung secrets... don't want them to fall into just anyone's hands!)

But wait! If you act now and send your money order before next month, with your first tape we'll send you an official Shaolin-jitsu-ryu-Do Black Cat Gung Fu Mega-Kewl school T-shirt!!! Yes, that's right, the official T-shirt with a picture of Sifu Martin singing his hit song "livin' el gato loco"!!

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1) Break bread!
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Later books and tapes will teach:
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5) And finally, the Art of Seuss-ryu! Incorporated into our style, you'll be able to have your heart grow three times in one day! You'll read the philisophical wisdom of Cindy-Loo-Who and understand the meaning of the dojo-jang-hall kun as discussed by Sensei Grinch! You'll learn the deadly hat techniques of Master Black Cat! And the ultimate martial arts, holistic diet of green eggs and ham!

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(humor module == disabled)

Did I really write that?!? We need one of these little face thingies that has devil horns!

Apologies... hehehehe

student · Post by **student** » Tue Aug 29, 2000 8:25 pm

Touche'!

Ippon!

RAOTFLMAO!

What more can I tell you? I bow to your superior Kung Fool....

student

BTW, wouldn't that be 16th Degree?

[This message has been edited by student (edited August 29, 2000).]

Panther · Post by **Panther** » Tue Aug 29, 2000 8:48 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by student:

What more can I tell you? I bow to your superior Kung Fool....<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thank you, thank you... no applause, just throw money... ummmm, paper money!

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote

BTW, wouldn't that be 16th Degree?

hehehehe... ummm, I can count in Nihongo...

But obviously the illustrious "Black Cat in the Hat"-Sifu has some problems...

(IOW, that was part of the gag, Otomodachi! It came from the number of times I've heard Native languages absolutely mangled by some "ka-rah-tee sin-say")

Malcolm Wagner · Post by **Malcolm Wagner** » Wed Aug 30, 2000 1:49 am

Panther,

No offense, but you have way too much time on your hands;-)---Thank you and all for the advice---I am going to visit him tomorrow night and if ya'll (Louisiana talk for "you guys")wish, I will write how it goes.

Mal
"When the battle is over, tighten your chin-straps."

Grand Master · Post by **Grand Master** » Wed Aug 30, 2000 4:47 am

Panther et. al: The TRUE supreme art of the world is still kept secret - and though I risk a horrible fate by revealing it - I offer to you the opportunity of purchasing er... earning the ultimate acheivement - a LEEK COLORED BELT!

<img src=ftp://ftp.uechi-ryu.com/pub/uechi-ryu/l ... APGOCH.JPG width=500>

Gene DeMambro · Post by **Gene DeMambro** » Wed Aug 30, 2000 4:59 am

A quick story:

When I was in Japan, I had the occasion to meet a Mr. John Gage. Mr. Gage hails from Michigan, and holds Dan rankings in a couple of different arts. He decided he mighht want to study judo and jujitsu is Japan. SO he secures a letter of introduction and heads off across the Big Pond, when he meets with the Sensei to whom he was directed.

John and Sato Sensei meet at Mr. Sato's house, where the interview (more like an interrogation) lasts 12 hours. At the end of the day, Mr. Sato tells John to meet him at the club the next day. The next day, John walks into the club. Sato Sensei hands John a white belt and says, "You are now my assistant".

That happened 13 years ago. John is now 3rd Dan Judo, 5th Dan Renshi Jujitsu and is the Assistant Instructor at the US Embassy Judo and Jujitsu Club, which Mr. Sato started 50 years ago and is still going strong.

I agree with Mr Mattson: No teacher will turn away a sincere student. You judge whether he is just putting up a smoke-screen, to test your resolve.

Gene