Hi:
Similar to what is done in many secret societies, I feel it would add to the spirit, (esprit de corps) and strengthen all our resolution to follow the maritial way to take an oath to uphold a mutually agreed upon code of ethics/dojo kun after every promotional. Of course, the Dojo Kun are not secret.
I Gotta hear what y'all say to that.
JT
------------------
[This message has been edited by JOHN THURSTON (edited August 23, 2000).]
A DOJO OATH
Moderator: Available
-
JOHN THURSTON
- Posts: 2445
- Joined: Sat Nov 28, 1998 6:01 am
- Location: MARSHFIELD, MA. USA
- Contact:
-
JOHN THURSTON
- Posts: 2445
- Joined: Sat Nov 28, 1998 6:01 am
- Location: MARSHFIELD, MA. USA
- Contact:
A DOJO OATH
Yes;
It does have a cultish sound!!!
It is intended to.
However, do not people, who normally tell the truth anyway, feel 'bound to do so' when they take an oath in court???
The idea is to use the vehicle we have to further reinforce the positive action we as followers of the Martial Way should have on society around us, by example.
Is the Boy Scout Oath a cult symbol?
Well yeah, so???
Let's get behind 'appearances".
I undrstand it is impractical, but think on it a bit.
JOHN
------------------
It does have a cultish sound!!!
It is intended to.
However, do not people, who normally tell the truth anyway, feel 'bound to do so' when they take an oath in court???
The idea is to use the vehicle we have to further reinforce the positive action we as followers of the Martial Way should have on society around us, by example.
Is the Boy Scout Oath a cult symbol?
Well yeah, so???
Let's get behind 'appearances".
I undrstand it is impractical, but think on it a bit.
JOHN
------------------
-
JOHN THURSTON
- Posts: 2445
- Joined: Sat Nov 28, 1998 6:01 am
- Location: MARSHFIELD, MA. USA
- Contact:
A DOJO OATH
Hi Tony San:
Exactly!!!!!
You mean the "Dojo Kun".
Yes, that is an oath and it is what is ,or should be, repeated by students periodically and/or by successful candiates at kyu and Dan level.
Primarlily now we only read them in a book!!!
GEM Sensei would be able to supply OUR Dojo Kun, I don't have them, I have "Funakoshi's" dojo kun, which I can print.
I think our practice of the art is too pointed toward the physical acheivment aspect etc., which is as it should be, but not all it can be.
I will dig out Funakoshi's Dojo Kun and print them here.
Even if the presiding senior just Read them or had them read by all candidates/students it would be a reinforcement of what I am getting at----a development of social awareness as well as physical and personal development.
The Japanese are aware of this and use teaching Martial Arts in school to further social development.
GEM sensei, I hope, will pop on and list the Uechi Dojo Kun, although I should have them in his books----somewhere.
These could be amplified a bit by talks from seniors from time to time at promotionals etc., but I understand that not everyone is going to agree with this notion.
JOHN
[This message has been edited by JOHN THURSTON (edited August 23, 2000).]
[This message has been edited by JOHN THURSTON (edited August 23, 2000).]
[This message has been edited by JOHN THURSTON (edited August 23, 2000).]
Exactly!!!!!
You mean the "Dojo Kun".
Yes, that is an oath and it is what is ,or should be, repeated by students periodically and/or by successful candiates at kyu and Dan level.
Primarlily now we only read them in a book!!!
GEM Sensei would be able to supply OUR Dojo Kun, I don't have them, I have "Funakoshi's" dojo kun, which I can print.
I think our practice of the art is too pointed toward the physical acheivment aspect etc., which is as it should be, but not all it can be.
I will dig out Funakoshi's Dojo Kun and print them here.
Even if the presiding senior just Read them or had them read by all candidates/students it would be a reinforcement of what I am getting at----a development of social awareness as well as physical and personal development.
The Japanese are aware of this and use teaching Martial Arts in school to further social development.
GEM sensei, I hope, will pop on and list the Uechi Dojo Kun, although I should have them in his books----somewhere.
These could be amplified a bit by talks from seniors from time to time at promotionals etc., but I understand that not everyone is going to agree with this notion.
JOHN
[This message has been edited by JOHN THURSTON (edited August 23, 2000).]
[This message has been edited by JOHN THURSTON (edited August 23, 2000).]
[This message has been edited by JOHN THURSTON (edited August 23, 2000).]
A DOJO OATH
Posted here is a set of rules and principles of practice that I post in my dojo and use to test my beginner students knowledge of:
Dojo Conduct
Everything in the martial arts begins and ends with courtesy.
Be sure to bow when entering and leaving the dojo.
During practice always follow the directions of your instructor and seniors.
Whistling, singing, and the like are improper behavior in the dojo.
Drinking and smoking is not allowed in the dojo.
Make the best use of your time by refraining from casual conversation during practice.
Keep busy while in the dojo. When tired, rest in a place away from the activity of others.
Show respect for seniors and elders. Treat lower ranks and juniors with courtesy and compassion.
Always have a clean uniform.
Always act with propriety whether in or outside the dojo.
{CODE OF ETHICS}
Principles of Practice
The purpose of karate training is to discipline the mind and body
In addition, to master the art of self-defense.
A karate practitioner should be well mannered and modest, value courtesy, and always wear decent
clothing, pay attention to his speech and actions, and work hard at training day and night.
A karate practitioner must never, even when drinking, call upon his strength in a quarrel, speak harshly,
act roughly, or become troublesome to others.
A karate practitioner must never bring shame upon himself or his school in either speech or action.
A karate practitioner must never speak arrogantly, fall into laziness, or act conceitedly. He/She should endeavor to work diligently at training and improving himself.
A karate practitioner should respect decorum and the martial arts, maintain the fine traditions of karate, and contribute to society.
Kanei Uechi, President
Uechi-Ryu Karate Do Association
Translation and copyright by Jon D. Mills October 1984
------------------
Len Testa
Dojo Conduct
Everything in the martial arts begins and ends with courtesy.
Be sure to bow when entering and leaving the dojo.
During practice always follow the directions of your instructor and seniors.
Whistling, singing, and the like are improper behavior in the dojo.
Drinking and smoking is not allowed in the dojo.
Make the best use of your time by refraining from casual conversation during practice.
Keep busy while in the dojo. When tired, rest in a place away from the activity of others.
Show respect for seniors and elders. Treat lower ranks and juniors with courtesy and compassion.
Always have a clean uniform.
Always act with propriety whether in or outside the dojo.
{CODE OF ETHICS}
Principles of Practice
The purpose of karate training is to discipline the mind and body
In addition, to master the art of self-defense.
A karate practitioner should be well mannered and modest, value courtesy, and always wear decent
clothing, pay attention to his speech and actions, and work hard at training day and night.
A karate practitioner must never, even when drinking, call upon his strength in a quarrel, speak harshly,
act roughly, or become troublesome to others.
A karate practitioner must never bring shame upon himself or his school in either speech or action.
A karate practitioner must never speak arrogantly, fall into laziness, or act conceitedly. He/She should endeavor to work diligently at training and improving himself.
A karate practitioner should respect decorum and the martial arts, maintain the fine traditions of karate, and contribute to society.
Kanei Uechi, President
Uechi-Ryu Karate Do Association
Translation and copyright by Jon D. Mills October 1984
------------------
Len Testa
-
JOHN THURSTON
- Posts: 2445
- Joined: Sat Nov 28, 1998 6:01 am
- Location: MARSHFIELD, MA. USA
- Contact:
A DOJO OATH
Len:
thank you so much. I will print these out.
The point I was hoping to foster was to utilize these and perhaps add some "American" dojo kun to further stress proper development and behaviour, maybe, umm----something like:
"As followers of the martial way we understand tht it is our responiblility to always act in an ethical and considerate way in the use of our skills and in our personal dealings with others"
"Never provoke a quarrel"
"Always remain in control of one's own faculties"
Just some thoughts. I will print Funakoshi's Dojo Kun when I dig then out.
Thanks again and thanks to Bill Sensei for the use of his forum to discuss this.
John
thank you so much. I will print these out.
The point I was hoping to foster was to utilize these and perhaps add some "American" dojo kun to further stress proper development and behaviour, maybe, umm----something like:
"As followers of the martial way we understand tht it is our responiblility to always act in an ethical and considerate way in the use of our skills and in our personal dealings with others"
"Never provoke a quarrel"
"Always remain in control of one's own faculties"
Just some thoughts. I will print Funakoshi's Dojo Kun when I dig then out.
Thanks again and thanks to Bill Sensei for the use of his forum to discuss this.
John
-
JOHN THURSTON
- Posts: 2445
- Joined: Sat Nov 28, 1998 6:01 am
- Location: MARSHFIELD, MA. USA
- Contact:
A DOJO OATH
Hi:
Very well stated thoughts indeed!
Should "a code" be an oath? Should they be repeated? When? Uniform from school to school, within a 'group' like OKK or IUKF?
I am an OKK member, and I doubt I have the clout to even suggest such a thing to "them", yet what practices they follow in this regard on Okinawa are unknown to me.
I'll have to check.
JT
------------------
Very well stated thoughts indeed!
Should "a code" be an oath? Should they be repeated? When? Uniform from school to school, within a 'group' like OKK or IUKF?
I am an OKK member, and I doubt I have the clout to even suggest such a thing to "them", yet what practices they follow in this regard on Okinawa are unknown to me.
I'll have to check.
JT
------------------
-
Brian Barry
- Posts: 178
- Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2000 6:01 am
- Location: Grove City College, PA
- Contact:
A DOJO OATH
At my dojo, you are given a school logo patch, to wear on the left sleeve of the gi, only after you can recite our student creed to an instructor.
Student Creed:
Remembering that the Martial Arts begins and ends with respect, I intend to:
1.) Develop myself in a positive manner and avoid anything that will reduce my mental growth or physical health.
2.) Develop self-discipline in order to bring out the best in myself and others.
3.) Use what I learn in class contructively and defensively, to help myself and my fellow man and never to be abusive or offensive.
Student Creed:
Remembering that the Martial Arts begins and ends with respect, I intend to:
1.) Develop myself in a positive manner and avoid anything that will reduce my mental growth or physical health.
2.) Develop self-discipline in order to bring out the best in myself and others.
3.) Use what I learn in class contructively and defensively, to help myself and my fellow man and never to be abusive or offensive.
A DOJO OATH
A not so humble opinion...
By the time someone has reached the san-kyu level, they should be getting closer and closer to having the right moral composition... if not before... and by the time someone is being considered for shodan, their character should be established, known and confirmed...
This is part of the path, the journey that we make between the first time entering a dojo and reaching that magical level of "beginner". (Commonly referred to as "black-belt". Sho == "beginning" - Dan == "rank, grade, level" ...as opposed to "innocent" or "white-belt").
Speaking words doesn't make one a certain way... Truly living the path makes one that way.
By the time someone has reached the san-kyu level, they should be getting closer and closer to having the right moral composition... if not before... and by the time someone is being considered for shodan, their character should be established, known and confirmed...
This is part of the path, the journey that we make between the first time entering a dojo and reaching that magical level of "beginner". (Commonly referred to as "black-belt". Sho == "beginning" - Dan == "rank, grade, level" ...as opposed to "innocent" or "white-belt").
Speaking words doesn't make one a certain way... Truly living the path makes one that way.
-
Jake Steinmann
- Posts: 1184
- Joined: Fri Apr 30, 1999 6:01 am
- Location: Newton, MA
- Contact:
A DOJO OATH
Just to add a counterpoint:
I've been in some dojo's where they had a "creed" or some such that was spoken (read: Shouted) at the end of every class. Or the beginning. Or both.
To be honest...it made me extremely uncomfortable. And it did feel very cultish (not just vaguely).
Without going off on too much of a rant: To contradict the monkey's from the Jungle Books, just because we say it does not make it so. Honor, humility, respect, ect. are things that are learned through example, action, and good teaching, not rote repition.
Food for thought
Jake
------------------
Defeat is worse than death. You have to live with defeat - Seal Team Slogan
I've been in some dojo's where they had a "creed" or some such that was spoken (read: Shouted) at the end of every class. Or the beginning. Or both.
To be honest...it made me extremely uncomfortable. And it did feel very cultish (not just vaguely).
Without going off on too much of a rant: To contradict the monkey's from the Jungle Books, just because we say it does not make it so. Honor, humility, respect, ect. are things that are learned through example, action, and good teaching, not rote repition.
Food for thought
Jake
------------------
Defeat is worse than death. You have to live with defeat - Seal Team Slogan
-
DavidT
A DOJO OATH
Defeat is worse then death. You have to live with defeat.....WORDS to live by
A DOJO OATH
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DavidT:
Defeat is worse then death. You have to live with defeat.....WORDS to live by<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I've said it before (here and to some guys I know from Seal Team 6), I'll say it again...
Death is worse than Defeat. If you're dead, you can't come back and make the bastards pay!
Defeat is worse then death. You have to live with defeat.....WORDS to live by<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I've said it before (here and to some guys I know from Seal Team 6), I'll say it again...
Death is worse than Defeat. If you're dead, you can't come back and make the bastards pay!
-
Bill Glasheen
- Posts: 17299
- Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
- Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY
A DOJO OATH
I'm somewhere between understanding the intent of John and understanding the trepidations of Jake. There are - in fact - many today who question the direction that martial arts took in the transition between karate jutsu and karate do.
* Where does character development end and thought control begin?
* To what extent are instructors responsible for the behavior of their students (some, for sure)?
* To what extent does an obsession with "the way" prevent us from truly understanding war, death, conflict, mindset, and survival?
I don't have these answers, but I'm certainly willing to entertain the notion that the boundaries aren't so sharp.
- Bill
* Where does character development end and thought control begin?
* To what extent are instructors responsible for the behavior of their students (some, for sure)?
* To what extent does an obsession with "the way" prevent us from truly understanding war, death, conflict, mindset, and survival?
I don't have these answers, but I'm certainly willing to entertain the notion that the boundaries aren't so sharp.
- Bill
-
Scott Danziger
- Posts: 929
- Joined: Thu Sep 17, 1998 6:01 am
- Location: Long Island
- Contact:
A DOJO OATH
As probably nobody knows (or cares 
), On Wednesdays I work out in an Isshinryu dojo. (Until somebody decides to bring Uechi ryu to Suffolk County on Long Island)
They say (and I say it too) the student creed before every class. It is Identical to what Brian Barry posted above with the addition of...
"We are a black belt school. We are Motivated, Dedicated, we are on a quest to be our best."
Got to hand it to the classes. Because they really say the student creed with conviction. I've never heard it mumbled or said in passe.
Scott
------------------
Uechi-Ryu.Com Streaming Video & Audio
The Uechi-Ryu.Com Hotlist
Taking Charge - Cable TV & Video Martial Arts Show
Martial Arts Of Long Island
), On Wednesdays I work out in an Isshinryu dojo. (Until somebody decides to bring Uechi ryu to Suffolk County on Long Island)They say (and I say it too) the student creed before every class. It is Identical to what Brian Barry posted above with the addition of...
"We are a black belt school. We are Motivated, Dedicated, we are on a quest to be our best."
Got to hand it to the classes. Because they really say the student creed with conviction. I've never heard it mumbled or said in passe.
Scott
------------------
Uechi-Ryu.Com Streaming Video & Audio
The Uechi-Ryu.Com Hotlist
Taking Charge - Cable TV & Video Martial Arts Show
Martial Arts Of Long Island
-
JOHN THURSTON
- Posts: 2445
- Joined: Sat Nov 28, 1998 6:01 am
- Location: MARSHFIELD, MA. USA
- Contact:
A DOJO OATH
Hi:
Thank you all again, especially Bill for the use of his forum.
The "Dojo Kun" are real. They are not and should not be a method of mind control.
Is "On my honor I will do my best to serve God and my country" (paraphrasing the Boy scout oath) mind control?
Yes, it is!!!! In the sense that trying to 'cultivate positive values' is an attempt at mind control. Don't therefore be put off by it.
Many things we say and write are attempts to influence others to do say and believe what WE think is right.
Since we, as followers of the martial way, must believe in its positive values, why should we NOT try to influence as many other others as possible.
Now you say "first he wants it 'secret' now he wants to influence the world'".
Right again!!! The Dojo Kun are, in effect, in existence, and unknown (but not purposely hidden) to much of the world, but 'we' as a group have a hopefully positivie effect on the world, regardless.
Should we also take a 'secret oath' to add to the 'aura of mystery' of the arts.
I dunno. Maybe, if it was in keeping with our principles.
The fact that the Dojo Kun themselves may not be known to people outside our system does not me that the positive aspects of our behaviour cannot serve as examples.
As a practical matter, they are a 'secret' or at least unknown to most.
Of course, the "dojo kun' need not be secret, but how many outside 'the arts' are going to understand exactly what they mean?
Secrecy with respect to the Dojo Kun themselves sounds silly, I know, and it would be hard to justify.
But, in our case, the "Secrets of Uechi-Ryu" and the Dojo Kun aren't kept hidden, except from those who do not study, and they do that to themselves.
I still think, as an example, for GEM Sensei to read Master Kanei's Dojo Kun before a Camp or at a promotional, would not be attempts at 'mind control' anymore than telling someone how to do a Sanchin arm movement properly would be.
JOHN
------------------
Thank you all again, especially Bill for the use of his forum.
The "Dojo Kun" are real. They are not and should not be a method of mind control.
Is "On my honor I will do my best to serve God and my country" (paraphrasing the Boy scout oath) mind control?
Yes, it is!!!! In the sense that trying to 'cultivate positive values' is an attempt at mind control. Don't therefore be put off by it.
Many things we say and write are attempts to influence others to do say and believe what WE think is right.
Since we, as followers of the martial way, must believe in its positive values, why should we NOT try to influence as many other others as possible.
Now you say "first he wants it 'secret' now he wants to influence the world'".
Right again!!! The Dojo Kun are, in effect, in existence, and unknown (but not purposely hidden) to much of the world, but 'we' as a group have a hopefully positivie effect on the world, regardless.
Should we also take a 'secret oath' to add to the 'aura of mystery' of the arts.
I dunno. Maybe, if it was in keeping with our principles.
The fact that the Dojo Kun themselves may not be known to people outside our system does not me that the positive aspects of our behaviour cannot serve as examples.
As a practical matter, they are a 'secret' or at least unknown to most.
Of course, the "dojo kun' need not be secret, but how many outside 'the arts' are going to understand exactly what they mean?
Secrecy with respect to the Dojo Kun themselves sounds silly, I know, and it would be hard to justify.
But, in our case, the "Secrets of Uechi-Ryu" and the Dojo Kun aren't kept hidden, except from those who do not study, and they do that to themselves.
I still think, as an example, for GEM Sensei to read Master Kanei's Dojo Kun before a Camp or at a promotional, would not be attempts at 'mind control' anymore than telling someone how to do a Sanchin arm movement properly would be.
JOHN
------------------
