Chinese name for Sanchin?

Ian · Post by **Ian** » Fri Sep 08, 2000 4:39 pm

Last night one of my students asked me why in the heck I was using Japanese for everything when I was teaching her a Chinese kata, and I reminded her that the material was adapted by Okinawans. She then asked what the "real" name of Sanchin was, in Chinese. Anyone know about the original names of these kata? (At UVA there's always 1-3 chinese/japanese speaking students in a class and they were of the opinion the names were Japanese as currently used--correct?)

Jake Steinmann · Post by **Jake Steinmann** » Fri Sep 08, 2000 6:33 pm

A few years ago, I was at work when a supervisor of mine, from China, noticed the back of my Brandeis Uechi-ryu sweatshirt...which was the character for Sanchin.

He asked me: "Do you know what the back of your shirt says?"

"Sanchin" I replied, proudly

"Yes, yes...but do you know what it means?" He asked.

"Um...Three conflicts" I replied, feeling somewhat less knowledgable.

"Well...I suppose so" He said "More like...um...Third World War"

The moral of the story?
1) Sanchin as a word certainly exists in chinese. I would not be surprised if that name was the "real" name of the kata.

2)There are all sorts of ways to translate things (ok, that's irrelevant to the discussion...but I just thought it was neat)

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Defeat is worse than death. You have to live with defeat - Seal Team Slogan

Wu Wei · Post by **Wu Wei** » Fri Sep 08, 2000 6:56 pm

According to books I've read, I've seen it (phonetically) spelled as Sam Chien in Chinese. I would assume that is Mandarin, but I don't know. I do know that several southern Chinese systems have a Sam Chien kata, including Tai Tsu Chuan.

Bill Glasheen · Post by **Bill Glasheen** » Fri Sep 08, 2000 9:49 pm

Ian

Whether Mandarin, Cantonese, Fuzhou dialect, or Japanese, the characters are the same. The best thing to do is show this person the characters. This is often what is done in China when you have your dialect and I have my own. And by the way, the characters are in the front of George's Uechiryu Karatedo.

Third world war, Jake? Hmmm... Something lost in the translation there!

Often these things can be translated funny when pulled out of context.

- Bill

DavidT · Post by **DavidT** » Sat Sep 09, 2000 5:14 am

I remember being told that the word "Sanchin" was Indian, not Japanese or Chinese. Could be wrong, first time for everything.

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"Before the beginning of great brilliance, there must be chaos. Before a Great person can begin something brilliant, they must look foolish to the crowd."--I Ching

Jake Steinmann · Post by **Jake Steinmann** » Sat Sep 09, 2000 7:43 pm

Hey, I only know what the nice Chinese guy told me.

Obviously, yes, the translation was totally out of context, but I still found it interesting.

Jake

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Defeat is worse than death. You have to live with defeat - Seal Team Slogan

Allen M. · Post by **Allen M.** » Sun Sep 10, 2000 1:34 am

Jake, Maybe he thought YOU wanted to start WW III with such a powerful emblem on your sweatshirt?

According to my wife's translation of the characters, to her they mean :

high (as in really above everything else),
low (as in earth), and
everything (as in put it all together).

Malcolm Wagner · Post by **Malcolm Wagner** » Sun Sep 10, 2000 12:23 pm

>high (as in really above everything else),
>low (as in earth), and
>everything (as in put it all together).

That makes ton's of sense. Doesn't the main conflict of life involve recognizing the difference in extremes, then realizing that their differences are actualy what defines them. Like the Yin and Yang symbol---the message is actually the wavy (s-shaped) line in the middle, which is the interaction (and balance) of the opposites.

Sanchin not only means "The Three Conflicts", it also teaches how to resolve the conflicts by coordinating the mind, body, and spirit (breath).

You can also find the form (Sam Chien, as Wu-Wei pointed out) in Ngo Cho Kun (Five Ancestor Fist) Kung-fu, but the breathing is not as noisy as most of the Okinawan versions. Any ideas as to why the breathing was changed? I figure it is for training purposes so the instructor can hear if you are doing the breathing properly or not.

Thanks for the space,
Mal Wagner

Jackie Olsen · Post by **Jackie Olsen** » Mon Sep 11, 2000 1:19 pm

"As above, so below ... all (body/mind/spirit) is joined together."

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In Beauty,

Jackie

Bill Glasheen · Post by **Bill Glasheen** » Mon Sep 11, 2000 1:51 pm

Er...Allan <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>high (as in really above everything else),
low (as in earth), and
everything (as in put it all together).<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think you have the wrong set of characters! That would be one rather literal translation of Ue chi ryu:

"Ue" means heaven or above
"chi" means ground or earth
"Ryu" means style

Of course Ue-chi is just a name, and should not be overinterpreted (as my name means green eyed, even though I have blue).

The characters for sanchin are unmistakable, and there are only two. The first character is three horizontal lines, which means....exactly what you would think it means. The second character is a compound one, and is the one that means conflict or battles or something like that.

- Bill

[This message has been edited by Bill Glasheen (edited September 11, 2000).]

LenTesta · Post by **LenTesta** » Fri Sep 15, 2000 2:21 pm

Absolutely Bill:

I have to agree with your last post about the meaning of the characters San and chin.

That is what I have always been told and thais is what I teach.

I have however never heard of the meaning of Ue-chi. It makes sense to me, and I thank you for teaching me this.

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Len Testa

Allen M. · Post by **Allen M.** » Sat Sep 16, 2000 1:12 am

Duh Bill,

Right. Different set of characters.

I was thinking about something else entirely.