I started this journey to get in shape to play lacrosse again. A friend told me that it was a great work out and lots of fun. That was 23 years ago. Never did play lacrosse again. Guess I found something I enjoyed just as much.
Laird
Why are you here?
Moderator: Available
Why are you here?
Still at it due purely to addiction. I try to quit every so often and can't.
Rory
[This message has been edited by RAM (edited May 04, 2001).]
Rory
[This message has been edited by RAM (edited May 04, 2001).]
Why are you here?
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote
Just want to say that's a pretty broad statement. I've met many who wanted to teach too soon, thinking they have "internalized" something when, in my opinion, they have not.
Teaching is calling that requires skills and desire to be successful. But can we really say folks have nothing but a "shell" if they don't teach?
Though I don't teach, I am not taking this statement defensively. Heck, I am happy being forever the student. I just think it's too broad of a statement.
david
Van sensei,if you are not a teacher, you are not really internalizing the martial art, you will possess nothing but the shell.
Just want to say that's a pretty broad statement. I've met many who wanted to teach too soon, thinking they have "internalized" something when, in my opinion, they have not.
Teaching is calling that requires skills and desire to be successful. But can we really say folks have nothing but a "shell" if they don't teach?
Though I don't teach, I am not taking this statement defensively. Heck, I am happy being forever the student. I just think it's too broad of a statement.
david
Why are you here?
David,
I knew you would respond the way you did.
And I had you in mind when I stated that there are notable exceptions, you being one of the many.
It may be a broad statement , but not too far off the mark. I am not saying that one should start teaching when not qualified to teach, but that teaching should be a component part of a martial artist's overall development.
BTW, you do teach your own brand of techniques, such as the reflex drills/impact training etal..so in my view you are a teacher, as well as a superb practitioner.
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Van Canna
I knew you would respond the way you did.
And I had you in mind when I stated that there are notable exceptions, you being one of the many.
It may be a broad statement , but not too far off the mark. I am not saying that one should start teaching when not qualified to teach, but that teaching should be a component part of a martial artist's overall development.
BTW, you do teach your own brand of techniques, such as the reflex drills/impact training etal..so in my view you are a teacher, as well as a superb practitioner.
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Van Canna
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Bill Glasheen
- Posts: 17299
- Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
- Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY
Why are you here?
david
Teaching is more than having the paperwork. Heck...I've been bad about getting those pieces of paper from George that make me a certified instructor. Teaching is more than taking peoples' money. I don't take peoples' money. I don't foist that point of view on anyone else; I just don't want to be bothered with obligations and expectations on the promotion front. I also recognize that being a professional instructor is a full time proposition if you do it right. All those nasty business details that have nothing to do with fighting... I guess what I'm saying is that you are a teacher without the title. Whether you think so or not, you have led many a "class" here in my dojo roundtable.
Actually though I want to clarify another point. Van's message brought up two points: 1) teaching is an important part of learning, and 2) self defense is an important element to be taught in martial arts. The "shell" Van referred to was what was left when the second component was missing in a dojo. That element is the responsibility of a teacher to include in the cirriculum. But it is the prerogative of the student to obsess with, assimilate in due course, or ignore.
- Bill
Teaching is more than having the paperwork. Heck...I've been bad about getting those pieces of paper from George that make me a certified instructor. Teaching is more than taking peoples' money. I don't take peoples' money. I don't foist that point of view on anyone else; I just don't want to be bothered with obligations and expectations on the promotion front. I also recognize that being a professional instructor is a full time proposition if you do it right. All those nasty business details that have nothing to do with fighting... I guess what I'm saying is that you are a teacher without the title. Whether you think so or not, you have led many a "class" here in my dojo roundtable.
Actually though I want to clarify another point. Van's message brought up two points: 1) teaching is an important part of learning, and 2) self defense is an important element to be taught in martial arts. The "shell" Van referred to was what was left when the second component was missing in a dojo. That element is the responsibility of a teacher to include in the cirriculum. But it is the prerogative of the student to obsess with, assimilate in due course, or ignore.
- Bill
Why are you here?
Okay, I succeeded in doing what I didn’t want to do – focusing on me. I should have just spelled out my thoughts.
To me understanding, doing and teaching are separate things. Though the latter should be predicated on the former, we know this is far from true. I guess I have made some observations through the years:
1. Some folks really know and can do but should just not teach because they are tempermentally not suited or do not have the skill set (and it is another skill set altogether) to do so effectively.
2. Some folks really understand but can’t do (or never was able to do it well). Yet, these same folks can have great success in teaching.
3. Some folks can do but don’t really understand how they do it.
4. Some folks think have teaching ability but overestimate their understanding.
5. Some folks think by having others called them “sensei” or “master” makes them such. In fact, getting so caught with the title, they never get near their potential, if they ever had it in the first place.
There are probably more categories of “folks” that can be added to the above. What I am getting at is that “teaching” does not equal mastery and vise versa. For example, I think Musashi was master (whatever the heck this is) long before towards the end of his life when he decided to teach and culminated the writing of his little treatise.
david
[This message has been edited by david (edited May 04, 2001).]
To me understanding, doing and teaching are separate things. Though the latter should be predicated on the former, we know this is far from true. I guess I have made some observations through the years:
1. Some folks really know and can do but should just not teach because they are tempermentally not suited or do not have the skill set (and it is another skill set altogether) to do so effectively.
2. Some folks really understand but can’t do (or never was able to do it well). Yet, these same folks can have great success in teaching.
3. Some folks can do but don’t really understand how they do it.
4. Some folks think have teaching ability but overestimate their understanding.
5. Some folks think by having others called them “sensei” or “master” makes them such. In fact, getting so caught with the title, they never get near their potential, if they ever had it in the first place.
There are probably more categories of “folks” that can be added to the above. What I am getting at is that “teaching” does not equal mastery and vise versa. For example, I think Musashi was master (whatever the heck this is) long before towards the end of his life when he decided to teach and culminated the writing of his little treatise.
david
[This message has been edited by david (edited May 04, 2001).]
Why are you here?
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote
That is certainly a valid opinion, and to a certain extent it is true.
But the argument on the flip side is that understanding and doing is very much improved by the challenge of teaching.
In my company there is a General Casualty adjuster program offered to a select number of proven field performers.
This is a specialized training program held at our Denver training center manned by outstanding teachers. Once a graduate of the program, the General adjuster [GA] becomes a [6-GA] __ then must go back every few years for more training to be promoted to [7-GA]__
Then back again for [8-GA] etc., much like the Uechi Ranking system.
It is mandatory for each candidate to teach a specific subject matter to the rest of the class during the training sessions. The theory of it being that under the pressure of teaching, the student will come to a greater understanding, force himself to a better grasp of the material in order to make others understand.
Then at the end of the training, the candidates are taken to the field to solve a mock catastrophic event.
Usually this works out very well, as our GA's are the most respected performers in the field, and are called upon to give seminars to employers/insureds on a variety of subjects.
I know the technique works as I was one of those in the program over the long years.
The very fact that I would be called upon to teach, spurred me on to gain a deeper understanding of the subjects, and to hone my performance in the field under extreme pressure such as getting a call to report to a construction site where an iron worker was found dead on the job with his brains tossed six feet from his head by a falling crane boom.
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Van Canna
To me understanding, doing and teaching are separate things.
That is certainly a valid opinion, and to a certain extent it is true.
But the argument on the flip side is that understanding and doing is very much improved by the challenge of teaching.
In my company there is a General Casualty adjuster program offered to a select number of proven field performers.
This is a specialized training program held at our Denver training center manned by outstanding teachers. Once a graduate of the program, the General adjuster [GA] becomes a [6-GA] __ then must go back every few years for more training to be promoted to [7-GA]__
Then back again for [8-GA] etc., much like the Uechi Ranking system.
It is mandatory for each candidate to teach a specific subject matter to the rest of the class during the training sessions. The theory of it being that under the pressure of teaching, the student will come to a greater understanding, force himself to a better grasp of the material in order to make others understand.
Then at the end of the training, the candidates are taken to the field to solve a mock catastrophic event.
Usually this works out very well, as our GA's are the most respected performers in the field, and are called upon to give seminars to employers/insureds on a variety of subjects.
I know the technique works as I was one of those in the program over the long years.
The very fact that I would be called upon to teach, spurred me on to gain a deeper understanding of the subjects, and to hone my performance in the field under extreme pressure such as getting a call to report to a construction site where an iron worker was found dead on the job with his brains tossed six feet from his head by a falling crane boom.
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Van Canna
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Allen M.
Why are you here?
To this day I don't know what happened to me, what turned me on, what hooked me in, or what kept me going thru the years, except MA is a part of me and I am a part of MA.
I once was very bored and was going to join the local YMCA to add to my running, but it looked even more boring and wanted to do something more exciting. While thumbing thru the local newspaper I saw an ad for a karate school but wasn't interested in fighting; I had my fill growing up. But I responded to the ad and remembered these dudes in white pajamas [oh no, I said to myself] going up and down the floor as I walked across the dojo entrance to the office. I basically had a short interview, and as I was walking out the door, Jeannie Decosta said to me "Don't you even want to watch a class?" I responded with exactly "No! I don't understand anything that's going on," waving my arm in a disinterested fashion, "but I'll be back Monday."
I started that Monday, did six days a week, every week, and as soon as I was allowed to do sparring class and advanced class I did those too. I missed my first Uechi class 1.5 years after I started only because of a date on Valentine's day with my latest squeeze.
I honestly don't know what clicked between the MA and I, but it seemed to be something which filled a void in my life, something very necessary for me to do to the extent of many hours a day for a number of years, and to continue as my personality developed and changed thru the years. As my priorities changed and as my ideas of what MA is and means to me have changed thru the years, MA has always remained right up there and has been part of most of whatever I do, even when only in the abstract. To me, MA is more than a façade, it is the fibre of my life.
Owning and managing a commercial dojo is not in my realm. I have great respect for those who make a go of it and greater respect for those who do it as their sole livelihood. I understand and recognize many of the problems and pitfalls associated with doing running one and don’t want to deal with them. Hence when I do start a dojo, I conduct it in either my living room, basement, or under a shady tree. Successful commercial dojo owners I know possess at least the following three major skills: They know the art, they can teach it, and they have the right combination of hr skills and business savvy.
Teaching is another subject altogether. I discovered I had a knack for teaching as a sophomore in high school in 1962 when I started the “Radio Club” and began to teach electronic and antenna theory once a week to individuals who wanted to learn Ham Radio. All through my life since then, anything I was interested in and spent time with, I could also and would also teach, from building radio transceivers to rebuilding car engines, scuba, sailing, guns, running, woodsmanship, and a lot of things in between such as karate and computer science, and even how to teach. Teaching and getting my point across to others, especially the thick, is a gift I highly cherish. Some martial arts dojo instructors in the past have picked up on those skills and have exploited them, sometimes fully to their benefit – and mine .
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Allen Moulton from Uechi-ryu Etcetera
I once was very bored and was going to join the local YMCA to add to my running, but it looked even more boring and wanted to do something more exciting. While thumbing thru the local newspaper I saw an ad for a karate school but wasn't interested in fighting; I had my fill growing up. But I responded to the ad and remembered these dudes in white pajamas [oh no, I said to myself] going up and down the floor as I walked across the dojo entrance to the office. I basically had a short interview, and as I was walking out the door, Jeannie Decosta said to me "Don't you even want to watch a class?" I responded with exactly "No! I don't understand anything that's going on," waving my arm in a disinterested fashion, "but I'll be back Monday."
I started that Monday, did six days a week, every week, and as soon as I was allowed to do sparring class and advanced class I did those too. I missed my first Uechi class 1.5 years after I started only because of a date on Valentine's day with my latest squeeze.
I honestly don't know what clicked between the MA and I, but it seemed to be something which filled a void in my life, something very necessary for me to do to the extent of many hours a day for a number of years, and to continue as my personality developed and changed thru the years. As my priorities changed and as my ideas of what MA is and means to me have changed thru the years, MA has always remained right up there and has been part of most of whatever I do, even when only in the abstract. To me, MA is more than a façade, it is the fibre of my life.
Owning and managing a commercial dojo is not in my realm. I have great respect for those who make a go of it and greater respect for those who do it as their sole livelihood. I understand and recognize many of the problems and pitfalls associated with doing running one and don’t want to deal with them. Hence when I do start a dojo, I conduct it in either my living room, basement, or under a shady tree. Successful commercial dojo owners I know possess at least the following three major skills: They know the art, they can teach it, and they have the right combination of hr skills and business savvy.
Teaching is another subject altogether. I discovered I had a knack for teaching as a sophomore in high school in 1962 when I started the “Radio Club” and began to teach electronic and antenna theory once a week to individuals who wanted to learn Ham Radio. All through my life since then, anything I was interested in and spent time with, I could also and would also teach, from building radio transceivers to rebuilding car engines, scuba, sailing, guns, running, woodsmanship, and a lot of things in between such as karate and computer science, and even how to teach. Teaching and getting my point across to others, especially the thick, is a gift I highly cherish. Some martial arts dojo instructors in the past have picked up on those skills and have exploited them, sometimes fully to their benefit – and mine .
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Allen Moulton from Uechi-ryu Etcetera
Why are you here?
Van sensei,
I agree that teaching can contribute to the process of learning. The process of teaching can spur a process of self-reflection on what one is doing and lead to greater understanding. But the self-reflection and exploration are not exlusive to teachers.
david
I agree that teaching can contribute to the process of learning. The process of teaching can spur a process of self-reflection on what one is doing and lead to greater understanding. But the self-reflection and exploration are not exlusive to teachers.
david
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Colin 8 of 8
- Posts: 71
- Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2001 6:01 am
- Location: Portsmouth Hampshire UK
Why are you here?
Allen M.
Isn’t teaching just the most fun thing in the world. Don’t you just glow with pride when your student dose well on a test.
Do you agree that a good teacher can teach even the most inept student?
Do you feel when your student fails to learn it is your failure?
Colin 8 of 8
Isn’t teaching just the most fun thing in the world.
Don’t you just glow with pride when your student dose well on a test.Do you agree that a good teacher can teach even the most inept student?
Do you feel when your student fails to learn it is your failure?
Colin 8 of 8
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paul giella
- Posts: 315
- Joined: Sun Sep 27, 1998 6:01 am
Why are you here?
It is nice to see people thinking psychologically about our motives for committing ourselves to a long course of study.. indeed, a lifestyle. Socrates said " the unexamined life is not worth living". Well, maybe he was exaggerating a little bit - it is still worth living - but it is richer and better when it involves deep introspection.
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Allen M.
Why are you here?
I like to pass on a part of myself to others, Colin. I once felt their failure was my failure and their success was my success, only I managed to detach myself from that realizing that the sucess or failure of a person was his alone and the teacher is only a conduit along the road to success. you know "You can lead a horse to water..."
But my heart still warms with immense personal satisfaction to witness people better themselves in what they do knowing that I had a hand in it. I suspect that if any, that's the true "reward."
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Allen Moulton from Uechi-ryu Etcetera
But my heart still warms with immense personal satisfaction to witness people better themselves in what they do knowing that I had a hand in it. I suspect that if any, that's the true "reward."
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Allen Moulton from Uechi-ryu Etcetera
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Joe Graziano
- Posts: 202
- Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2000 6:01 am
- Location: Milford, MA, US
Why are you here?
Great posts, especially (for me) Allen M's says it (almost) all. He talks about his start at my friend Eddie (and Jean's) dojo and his study being such an important part of his life. I guess I can only add that it's also such an honor and privilege to study with others for whom this study is equally special.
Today, my teacher, friends, and students, helped me dedicate my dojo to the memory of my brother Tom, Uechi Yondan, who recently passed away, with a wonderful gasshuku in tribute to Tom.
Their enthusiasm and fellowship was special and made me appreciate yet again the special bond we have with our fellow students.
Although my study is internalized and in my heart (as all my teachers would say is important), I can't help but think that that somehow is magically compounded by the gift of training with others who take the study equally to heart.
I know I always felt a proud older brother feeling when my brothers Tom and Jim would be at the dojo with me.
I felt that way today in the presence of my teacher, friends, and students, and my departed brother Tom's spirit.
Today, my teacher, friends, and students, helped me dedicate my dojo to the memory of my brother Tom, Uechi Yondan, who recently passed away, with a wonderful gasshuku in tribute to Tom.
Their enthusiasm and fellowship was special and made me appreciate yet again the special bond we have with our fellow students.
Although my study is internalized and in my heart (as all my teachers would say is important), I can't help but think that that somehow is magically compounded by the gift of training with others who take the study equally to heart.
I know I always felt a proud older brother feeling when my brothers Tom and Jim would be at the dojo with me.
I felt that way today in the presence of my teacher, friends, and students, and my departed brother Tom's spirit.
Why are you here?
Joe,
Nice tribute to your brother, Tom.
On an off note, Forest Sanborn's daughter, Loreen, may be a camp this summer to do some healing arts. I am sure she would love to hear from those who knew her father.
david
Nice tribute to your brother, Tom.
On an off note, Forest Sanborn's daughter, Loreen, may be a camp this summer to do some healing arts. I am sure she would love to hear from those who knew her father.
david
Why are you here?
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ted Dinwiddie:
NO ONE is in control. We can prepare and train for infinite scenarios for infinite hours and we will still not be in control.
Isn't that our (Martial Artists) darkest fear?
Don't we practice to try to control the fear?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Ted-san,
Control is an illusion. SO is fear - though a potent one. To use an illusion to overcome another illusion is a danger even the most advanced martial artists fall into - I know I have.
If we negate the illusion, we alleviate the hold it has on us. Control is an illusion - direction seems to be less of one.
If we learn proper direction - to follow the Way correctly, instinctively and without allowing illusion to distract us, we become better as people.
That is a goal to which we all can strive to attain.
Respectfully,
Lee Darrow
------------------
"No matter where you go, there you MIGHT be!" - Heisenberg
NO ONE is in control. We can prepare and train for infinite scenarios for infinite hours and we will still not be in control.
Isn't that our (Martial Artists) darkest fear?
Don't we practice to try to control the fear?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Ted-san,
Control is an illusion. SO is fear - though a potent one. To use an illusion to overcome another illusion is a danger even the most advanced martial artists fall into - I know I have.
If we negate the illusion, we alleviate the hold it has on us. Control is an illusion - direction seems to be less of one.
If we learn proper direction - to follow the Way correctly, instinctively and without allowing illusion to distract us, we become better as people.
That is a goal to which we all can strive to attain.
Respectfully,
Lee Darrow
------------------
"No matter where you go, there you MIGHT be!" - Heisenberg
