Raf wrote: " He just reached out and grabbed the damn blade. Dumbest thing I ever saw. I can't think of anyone who could do that."
While I have never taught that as a technique, I do know that it has saved the lives of both civilians and peace officers who got the grab inadvertantly...no matter what you get in the grab, hang on and fight back like a demon...better to loes the hand than your life.
Allen wrote: "here is a move in a Tang Soo do form that teaches stopping the blade by
pressing the palms together in front of the face. REAL stupid."
Our Shorin-ji kata with this move is Patsai Dai ...I was told about its use to stop a sword attack and after I stoped rolling on the floor laughing I had a good look at a reasonable application and it didn't take long to see the ear box potential of the technique.
doubleouch wrote: "grab the knife wielding hand"
I like Peyton Quinn's advice that tho it is dangerous to be trying to grab a flailing knife hand, IF you get a grab because it is fairly instinctive to try, then get a grip of steel with both hands, do not contest his power but redirect it and to attack his head vigorously and repeatedly. His vid is #1 on this topic.
I also was incredulous when I was taught most ordinary karate defenses to a knife artack so I took training in FMA to see how a knife would be used on me and then I went back home and became a bit of a renegade in our club for not following party line...with the new awareness of cross training benfits and less isolation between styles, I've slowly moved to inovator status - gee, it's great to live in a small town!
But now that I teach, I never do a seminar about knife work without mentioning or actually screening Animal's (Marc MacYoung) first video, Surviving a Knife Fight, it is a must see on this topic. If all you have is traditional karate techniques and attitude, this vid can be a eureka experience!
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The Fighting Old Man
The knife and self defense
Moderator: Available
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Ted Dinwiddie
- Posts: 537
- Joined: Thu Sep 16, 1999 6:01 am
- Location: Charlottesville,VA,USA
The knife and self defense
Bill and MyosimKa,
As a Charlottesvillian MA enthusiast with ties to the Richmond area, I am highly interested in some cross-training opportunities with blades. I would gladly participate in either location.
My instructors have a fair amount of experience with Professor Remy Prisas in FMA. Has Mr. Derderian(sp?) any contact with him?
ted
As a Charlottesvillian MA enthusiast with ties to the Richmond area, I am highly interested in some cross-training opportunities with blades. I would gladly participate in either location.
My instructors have a fair amount of experience with Professor Remy Prisas in FMA. Has Mr. Derderian(sp?) any contact with him?
ted
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Raffi Derderian
- Posts: 635
- Joined: Thu Oct 08, 1998 6:01 am
- Location: Johnston, RI
- Contact:
The knife and self defense
Ted,
I have had the pleasure of training on many occasions with Remy Presas. I even had the pleasure of his company at dinner once with a few other people. I am ranked and certified by one of his black belts, W. Hock Hochheim, in Arnis. I am also a certified instructor of Kali under Guro Kevin Seaman who is a Full Instructor under Guro Dan Inosanto.
I am hoping to see my friends in the Virginia area in the not too distant future. Hope you can attend.
Raf
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http://members.aol.com/damajkd/dama.html
I have had the pleasure of training on many occasions with Remy Presas. I even had the pleasure of his company at dinner once with a few other people. I am ranked and certified by one of his black belts, W. Hock Hochheim, in Arnis. I am also a certified instructor of Kali under Guro Kevin Seaman who is a Full Instructor under Guro Dan Inosanto.
I am hoping to see my friends in the Virginia area in the not too distant future. Hope you can attend.
Raf
------------------
http://members.aol.com/damajkd/dama.html
The knife and self defense
Glasheen-Sensei,
Shomen hajiki! Wow, brings back memories! I agree completely, and the shirt move is good, too, IF you time it right, otherwise, he'll just step out of the way and you are left in a lesser position than before.
One that I have seen used is the "towel technique" for a shirt. twirl it into a rope form and use it as in hojo-jitte-jutsu, the rope techniques used by the police in fuedal Japan. Belts work for this, too.
Also, as someone else mentioned, it gives you a good snapping attack ala the whip, which can throw off an attacker's stride long enough to do something smart, like run away.
My real focus was on other weapons of opportunity - briefcases, garden hoses (it's summer - they're all over), car antennae (a really NASTY one) and the like.
I have seen very little on this area of kobudo and would love to see some kata created for these weapons. After all, that's how kobudo came to be in the first place - weapons of opportunity!
Respectfully,
Lee Darrow, C.Ht.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bill Glasheen:
Lee
Actually there is a technique in Uechi hojoundo (shomen hajiki or "front snap") that - on surface - appears to be eye strikes with the flicking of a hand. When I teach this technique, I remind people that anything in the hand could be the weapon. Thus a handful of gravel, sand, whatever...works, and gives you distance.
On the knife defense, my Green Beret instructor taught me an interesting one that fits into the mold of shomen hajiki. You know how in movies when a street fighter faces someone with a knife, that he will wrap a shirt or towel around the front arm, presumably to take the slashing? Well my instructor told me this could be a wonderful decoy. Basically act like this is what you are going to do. What you will do at some point is fling that towel or shirt into the attacker's face. You now have about a half second to be all over the knife holder like a cheap suit. Better have an ippon in your back pocket!
I'm not recommending anyone fight someone with a knife if you don't have to. But deception is a wonderful tool for either the warrior or the citizen defender. I can tell you stories... I guess the I.Q. and clever deception must have come in handy many generations back.
- Bill
[This message has been edited by Bill Glasheen (edited July 18, 2001).]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Shomen hajiki! Wow, brings back memories! I agree completely, and the shirt move is good, too, IF you time it right, otherwise, he'll just step out of the way and you are left in a lesser position than before.
One that I have seen used is the "towel technique" for a shirt. twirl it into a rope form and use it as in hojo-jitte-jutsu, the rope techniques used by the police in fuedal Japan. Belts work for this, too.
Also, as someone else mentioned, it gives you a good snapping attack ala the whip, which can throw off an attacker's stride long enough to do something smart, like run away.
My real focus was on other weapons of opportunity - briefcases, garden hoses (it's summer - they're all over), car antennae (a really NASTY one) and the like.
I have seen very little on this area of kobudo and would love to see some kata created for these weapons. After all, that's how kobudo came to be in the first place - weapons of opportunity!
Respectfully,
Lee Darrow, C.Ht.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bill Glasheen:
Lee
Actually there is a technique in Uechi hojoundo (shomen hajiki or "front snap") that - on surface - appears to be eye strikes with the flicking of a hand. When I teach this technique, I remind people that anything in the hand could be the weapon. Thus a handful of gravel, sand, whatever...works, and gives you distance.
On the knife defense, my Green Beret instructor taught me an interesting one that fits into the mold of shomen hajiki. You know how in movies when a street fighter faces someone with a knife, that he will wrap a shirt or towel around the front arm, presumably to take the slashing? Well my instructor told me this could be a wonderful decoy. Basically act like this is what you are going to do. What you will do at some point is fling that towel or shirt into the attacker's face. You now have about a half second to be all over the knife holder like a cheap suit. Better have an ippon in your back pocket!
I'm not recommending anyone fight someone with a knife if you don't have to. But deception is a wonderful tool for either the warrior or the citizen defender. I can tell you stories... I guess the I.Q. and clever deception must have come in handy many generations back.
- Bill
[This message has been edited by Bill Glasheen (edited July 18, 2001).]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
The knife and self defense
Speaking of chainmail, there are butcher's gloves that are made of high quality steel chainmail available for retail sale.
Also, at some Rennaissance fairs you can get what are called duellist's gloves - the palms have chainmail inserts specifically designed for what fencers call the bote du savant, using the off weapon hand to block a thrust or cut. As the chainmail is on the palms, they will probably fail the weighted sap-glove test as most of them have the weights on the outside and are designed to hit someone. With the armor in the palm and the designer's intent to be as a defensive body armor, you should be able to wear these. Butcher's gloves, being all chainmail will fail that test, no question.
You haven't lived until you have seen the expression on a knife fighter's face when you grab the blade with your hand and pull it out of his grip! It's a kodak moment to be cherished. Trust me, I've seen this occur in a real situation and the expression will stay with me forever (and it probably mirrored my own, come to think of it!).
Respectfully,
Lee Darrow, C.Ht.
Also, at some Rennaissance fairs you can get what are called duellist's gloves - the palms have chainmail inserts specifically designed for what fencers call the bote du savant, using the off weapon hand to block a thrust or cut. As the chainmail is on the palms, they will probably fail the weighted sap-glove test as most of them have the weights on the outside and are designed to hit someone. With the armor in the palm and the designer's intent to be as a defensive body armor, you should be able to wear these. Butcher's gloves, being all chainmail will fail that test, no question.
You haven't lived until you have seen the expression on a knife fighter's face when you grab the blade with your hand and pull it out of his grip! It's a kodak moment to be cherished. Trust me, I've seen this occur in a real situation and the expression will stay with me forever (and it probably mirrored my own, come to think of it!).
Respectfully,
Lee Darrow, C.Ht.
The knife and self defense
Lee,
Have used gloves very similar to these:
www.teritex.u-net.com/kevlar.htm
and these:
www.bestvaluetextiles.com/gloves.html
but, haven't tried the steel mesh. Under the steel mesh gloves, it says "easy to clean"...just what do they have in mind?
nick
Have used gloves very similar to these:
www.teritex.u-net.com/kevlar.htm
and these:
www.bestvaluetextiles.com/gloves.html
but, haven't tried the steel mesh. Under the steel mesh gloves, it says "easy to clean"...just what do they have in mind?
nick
The knife and self defense
Nick-san
As one poster noted, kevlar isn't so good against an edge, being primarily a ballistic material, so I'm not too keen on those.
As to the mesh gloves being easy to clean - well, they are designed to be used in meat packing operations...
Respectfully,
Lee Darrow, C.Ht.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by nick:
Lee,
Have used gloves very similar to these:
www.teritex.u-net.com/kevlar.htm
and these:
www.bestvaluetextiles.com/gloves.html
but, haven't tried the steel mesh. Under the steel mesh gloves, it says "easy to clean"...just what do they have in mind?
nick<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
As one poster noted, kevlar isn't so good against an edge, being primarily a ballistic material, so I'm not too keen on those.
As to the mesh gloves being easy to clean - well, they are designed to be used in meat packing operations...
Respectfully,
Lee Darrow, C.Ht.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by nick:
Lee,
Have used gloves very similar to these:
www.teritex.u-net.com/kevlar.htm
and these:
www.bestvaluetextiles.com/gloves.html
but, haven't tried the steel mesh. Under the steel mesh gloves, it says "easy to clean"...just what do they have in mind?
nick<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
