stretch

[Guest]

I managed to over work the shoulder a year or so ago.

I have embarked on a lot of strength training in this area.

And know I,ve created a lack of mobility in the shoulder.

Ya ya I know .......stretch!

Specifically the fading mobility is lifting the elbows above the shoulder.(not in front of the face but out to the side.

So can anyone recommend a stretch to target this?

Laird

[maxwell ainley]

Hi Laird, years ago did same , on site lifting a massive lintol over some french windows .
Have you seen a doctor etc ? get some pro advice for starters ,if you still work out do it lightly ,obviously you have over worked that area , may I why?.

max.


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max ainley

[Bill Glasheen]

One more set of thoughts...

There are things you could be doing in the weightroom that might me making things worse. I have two pieces of advice.

1) When doing a lat pulldown exercise, don't bring the bar down behind the head. Instead, bring it down just in front of the face and to the upper chest.

2) When you are having shoulder problems, you might want to give overhead pressing a break. Instead use dumbbells and do front and lateral shoulder raises. And when you do get back to overhead shoulder presses, use dumbbels instead of a barbell. This will prevent you from trying to do the behind-the-head thing mentioned above, and will work many more aspects of your shoulder.

- Bill

[Malcolm Wagner]

I had a shoulder injury a few years back (strained rotator cuff). Something that helped me was hanging from a bar, with feet still on the ground for support, and doing active range of motion exercises. The first few weeks I had to "help" the injured arm up onto the bar with my good arm. After a few months I was able to support the entire weight and perform shoulder rotations with the entire motion in the shoulder joint (keeping the arms straight and lifting my weight with a shrugging-type-motion of the shoulders). Note:This was done in the rehab phase, not while having acute pain and impingement.

Also alternated ice and heat, deep-heat type rubs, and the occasional Aleeve.

I keep them in good shape now by using a Yoga posture called "Downward-facing-dog". Support the weight on hands and feet, butt straight up in the air, push back with the arms and shoulders while driving the heels toward the floor. Keep knees straight and you will feel a wonderful stretch in the hamstrings (it also strengthens the sciatic, or "life" nerve).

Hope you get better;-)

Mal Wagner

[Guest]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by maxwell ainley:
,obviously you have over worked that area , may I why?.

max.


[/B]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually 20 years in the kitchen did the shoulder in. Chef's tend to suffer from chronic lower back injuries, worn out elbow and worn out shoulders.

I left the trade eight years ago, the back is fine, the elbows have totally recovered, but the shoulders still get stiff and sore if tested.

I do a lot of block resistance in arm conditioning and the shoulder tends to complain after.

To overcome this I have undertaken a strengthening regime. It's helped heaps!

Lack of mobility......two steps forward and one back Progress none the less.

I agree a good MD is a must. Unfortunately finding a sympathetic one is rare as Bill suggests. Around here you've got to be a ski racer or it's just not important. Your almost 50 .....these things are to be expected.

The way I see the world I expect my body to function,if it doesn't I try to fix it.I have received lectures on the evils of violence from one local MD whom I visited as a result of sparring injuries.Haven't found a doc who seems to understand so I fielded this one to the experts .

Bill, Thanks for the stretching program and the link!Hmmmmm so when are we going to see the stretching video in the store . (hint)

I have been doing lat pull downs behind the head,I'll amend my program today.

Malcom,I'll give it a shot! If it doesn't help the shoulder,I'll not mind the good hamstring stretch.

Laird

[david]

Laird, Good luck on the shoulder. Sounds similar to my left shoulder. Lifting my arm back and over shoulder height was sending tinges of pain, now just discomfort. It is just starting to feel a bit better after taking it easy from bagwork and focus mitts for the past several months. Slow shoulder arm rotations for stretching seemed to have helped. Did some (not the same amount as previous) focus mitt work with a partner yesterday. Not feeling too bad today. Will have to try Bill's recipe too.

david

[maxwell ainley]

Thanks for reply laird , every type of job seems to have its down sides in some way or other ,you have had some good advice ,I wish you a happy new year in all you do .

max.

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max ainley

[Guest]

Best wishes for you in the New Year as well Max! And for the rest of you as well.

The paycheck,the working mans curse .

I always thought I should get paid to float dry flies over trout. I've just never found anyone who was willing to pay me .

But I'm still looking

Laird

[Joe Graziano]

Bill, Great advice and exercises. My preferred warm up of late prior to stretching in my karate workout is to run through all kata in a soft manner at no more than about fifty percent speed and intensity.

Laird, You might find it helpful to move any center full power strikes toward the outside, which along with "stopping" with the lat, makes for less strain on the shoulder.

[Bill Glasheen]

I agree wholeheartedly that a trip to the doctor is the first step. However I have little faith in the average M.D. helping the amateur warrior stay in the gym. My recommendation is to choose a physician that used to be (and perhaps still is) an athlete.

I hurt both my shoulders over the years, and have managed to get them both back into reasonable shape. Like the knees, you need to treat them well and maintain them carefully. I have some recommendations that have served me well.

I) Start all your workouts with a proper warm-up. One should never jump straight into stretching. That should be done only after getting the blood flowing to the particular areas. My favorite warm-up routine - which I do before both karate and weightlifting - is a series of dynamic tension exercises, similar to what one would do in the Goju sanchin. My first exercise is to do punching in a horse stance, only with dynamic tension while doing ibuki breathing. Don't make your face red or otherwise sound like you're having an asthma attack. Just resist both the inhale (with the nose) and exhale (with the epiglottis) while similarly resisting the movements with the antagonistic muscles. The second exercise I do (which gets at your shoulder problem) is a push up and pull down exercise, as if I'm alternately doing an overhead shoulder press and then a lat pulldown. For the final one, I get into a shallower stance (heiko dachi) and do alternating circle blocks like the end of a Goju sanchin (only I do proper boshikens like a good Uechi student). Occasionally I'll add a fourth exercise where I make a straight line from elbow to shoulder to shoulder to elbow (with both arms bent 90 degrees at elbow), and "crank" my arms up and down. Again, breathe with the movements.


II) I have a pretty full shoulder stretching routine. All exercises are done with PNF stretching technique (remember not to hold your breath). Check out Brad Appleton's website to get the complete scoop on this and other advanced stretching techniques.

Stretching and Flexibility

All my shoulder stretching routines are done as agonist/antagonist pairs. Sorry, I can't refer you to a single book on this. It's something I put together myself over the years. Here are the exercises:

.....1a) Arm stretched back at level of shoulder (for front of chest and front of shoulder)
.....1b) Arm pulled across the chest at level of shoulder (for back of shoulder and back)

.....2a) Hands together (more or less) with arms up and back (shoulders)
.....2b) Hands together (more or less) behind the back and being pulled up (opposite aspect of shoulders)

This pair is likely to get directly at your specific problem.

.....3a) Arm behind head (with elbow casually bent), attempting to pull elbow to opposite shoulder. You can also do this by leaning the elbow up against a post while in this position. (Mostly lats, but some shoulder)
.....3b) With arm in sanchin position and hand grabbing something (like a post), pull elbow in and up. (Mostly back of shoulder)

These you can do if you have a partner. You can do them up against a post if you are creative and coordinated. They are great for many shoulder problems. I've seen many a baseball pitcher use this pair as a warm-up. They work on the rotational aspects of the shoulder.

.....4a) With elbow in line with the two shoulders and elbow bent at ninety degrees, have a partner "crank" the arm up and back.
.....4b) With elbow in line with the two shoulders and elbow bent at ninety degrees,
have a partner "crank" the arm down and back.

By the way, I would also highly recommend doing this stretching set both before and after an upper body weight routine.

Be very, very patient. Shoulder problems can take months and even years to get under control. Shoulder maintenance is a lifetime endeavor. Good luck.

- Bill

[Bob Sisson]

Laird,

Another idea is to see a GOOD massage therapist. Someone who deals with sports injuries and deep tissue massage. As an aside, if the massage feels relaxing, it is not doing any good INSIDE. A good deep tissue massage/stretch HURTS, and a really good therapist takes you right to your limit, far beyond where you thought you could go. And yes, it does feel wonderful when they stop.

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Bob Sisson
Keeper of the Dragon and other things at Redwall
mailto:bob@sissonfamily.com
http://www.sissonfamily.com/bob