We all get bruises from training, sometimes the deep "bone" bruises. I got quite a few, and on occasion the sharp pain in my forearm made me think I cracked a bone or something.
Lately, however, I woke up "the next day" after training, having done lots of Uechi cross-blocks in Kyu Kumite, with some large swollen bruises which...did not hurt!
Although they eventually went down in size, leaving a small "kernel" they never developed the classic flinching tenderness of my past bruises.
So...does bruising eventually lead to conditioning?
Is it a required step in the process?
Can (or should) conditioning take place without bruising?
Is there a point at which the process becomes less painful while yielding a buildup of useful toughness?
And what actually occurs as "conditioning" takes place?
Bruising vs. Conditioning
Moderator: Available
Bruising vs. Conditioning
2Green,
Bruising is damage and does not lead to conditioning! Stop bruising yourself. Heal up then take this approach to conditioning:
1.Warm up the body part with a deep, penetrating, vigorous massage.
2. Start by lightly slapping
3. Next, move into beating, then pounding.
4. Then striking.
5. Finish with a massage once more.
You should approach body conditioning slowly, a little bit each day over a long period of time, slowly increasing the intensity. It should never cause you to bruise. Use it like medicine and don’t overdose on it. Bruising is hard on the kidneys so try to avoid it. Also, consider changing your blocking style to absorb or deflect rather than striking or smashing (use tenshin). Soft beats hard; Hard overcomes soft.
[This message has been edited by Uechij (edited February 20, 2002).]
[This message has been edited by Uechij (edited February 20, 2002).]
Bruising is damage and does not lead to conditioning! Stop bruising yourself. Heal up then take this approach to conditioning:
1.Warm up the body part with a deep, penetrating, vigorous massage.
2. Start by lightly slapping
3. Next, move into beating, then pounding.
4. Then striking.
5. Finish with a massage once more.
You should approach body conditioning slowly, a little bit each day over a long period of time, slowly increasing the intensity. It should never cause you to bruise. Use it like medicine and don’t overdose on it. Bruising is hard on the kidneys so try to avoid it. Also, consider changing your blocking style to absorb or deflect rather than striking or smashing (use tenshin). Soft beats hard; Hard overcomes soft.
[This message has been edited by Uechij (edited February 20, 2002).]
[This message has been edited by Uechij (edited February 20, 2002).]
Bruising vs. Conditioning
Blood flow around bones also very limited and damaged (bone bruises as some call it) can actually lead to bone degeneration. This info. was passed on to me by the Orthopedic surgen that reconstructed my knee when we discussed my return to training..Yes, avoid bruises.
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Allen M.
Bruising vs. Conditioning
That baby asprin must be powerful stuff, Bill. I'll try it. I live on asprin and Celebrex but bruise infrequently. 
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Allen Moulton from Uechi-ryu Etcetera
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Allen Moulton from Uechi-ryu Etcetera
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Bill Glasheen
- Posts: 17299
- Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
- Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY
Bruising vs. Conditioning
Allen
Actually the baby aspirin is a fraction of a dose of adult aspirin. My comment wasn't meant to encourage people to go out and try this. I just meant to point out that it's possible to change clotting time pharmacologically. I've had men in the class before that were all black and blue, and usually I ask them if they are taking aspirin. More often than not, they are.
Aspirin and Celebrex...that can be different. I know for sure that ibuprofen (Advil, Motrin, Nuprin) can interfere with asprirn's ability to change the clotting time, depending on the order in which you take the drugs (recently published findings). The same could be true with aspirin and Celebrex. Furthermore, the aspirin completely nullifies the COX-specific advantage of Celebrex. Might as well just take the cheaper NSAIDs.
I will caution you though that you need to be careful mixing pain meds like this - particularly if you are taking them for a lifetime. Many end stage renal disease patients are in their state because of a lifetime of taking analgesics and combinations of analgesics due to arthritis or other chronic conditions. Bottom line - best to tell your doctor what you are doing (including all over-the-counter meds and any herbals) and have him/her monitor your progress.
- Bill
Actually the baby aspirin is a fraction of a dose of adult aspirin. My comment wasn't meant to encourage people to go out and try this. I just meant to point out that it's possible to change clotting time pharmacologically. I've had men in the class before that were all black and blue, and usually I ask them if they are taking aspirin. More often than not, they are.
Aspirin and Celebrex...that can be different. I know for sure that ibuprofen (Advil, Motrin, Nuprin) can interfere with asprirn's ability to change the clotting time, depending on the order in which you take the drugs (recently published findings). The same could be true with aspirin and Celebrex. Furthermore, the aspirin completely nullifies the COX-specific advantage of Celebrex. Might as well just take the cheaper NSAIDs.
I will caution you though that you need to be careful mixing pain meds like this - particularly if you are taking them for a lifetime. Many end stage renal disease patients are in their state because of a lifetime of taking analgesics and combinations of analgesics due to arthritis or other chronic conditions. Bottom line - best to tell your doctor what you are doing (including all over-the-counter meds and any herbals) and have him/her monitor your progress.
- Bill
Bruising vs. Conditioning
I have been in Martial Arts for 34 years. My advice, stop hurting yourself! Centuries ago, martial arts had to harden their body parts, but not in civilized society. I have black belts in two types of Kenpo Karate and have taken Aikido. I put together my own art called Aikikenjitsu. I have used it three times in my life very effectively and I am 5'2", 130 pounds and getting old. The only harding I have been doing for years is hitting and kicking a heavy bag with all my body striking parts. I now recently started to just use a portable punching bag which is soft, but it does build endurance. I do every now and then strike up and down my forearms and elbows with a ratan stick. Becareful not to injure your nerves. Do you have to harden your body to be effective in Martial Arts? Heck no! Remember, just practice focusing with power at the numerous "vital spots" and the many ways of moving your body to reach them. That's all you need except just practice, practice, practice,with thought. One should go to a dojo to learn how to defend yourself, not to get beaten up. You can get that for free in the streets. There's hard, soft and medium. Yours seems to be hard core. Maybe you might rethink your idea on styles?? We used protective arm guards with we Kumite in Kenpo and we became very skilled without really hurting ourselfs.Yours in Martial Arts, Bob 5th degree black belt, Aikikenjitsu <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 2Green:
We all get bruises from training, sometimes the deep "bone" bruises. I got quite a few, and on occasion the sharp pain in my forearm made me think I cracked a bone or something.
Lately, however, I woke up "the next day" after training, having done lots of Uechi cross-blocks in Kyu Kumite, with some large swollen bruises which...did not hurt!
Although they eventually went down in size, leaving a small "kernel" they never developed the classic flinching tenderness of my past bruises.
So...does bruising eventually lead to conditioning?
Is it a required step in the process?
Can (or should) conditioning take place without bruising?
Is there a point at which the process becomes less painful while yielding a buildup of useful toughness?
And what actually occurs as "conditioning" takes place?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
We all get bruises from training, sometimes the deep "bone" bruises. I got quite a few, and on occasion the sharp pain in my forearm made me think I cracked a bone or something.
Lately, however, I woke up "the next day" after training, having done lots of Uechi cross-blocks in Kyu Kumite, with some large swollen bruises which...did not hurt!
Although they eventually went down in size, leaving a small "kernel" they never developed the classic flinching tenderness of my past bruises.
So...does bruising eventually lead to conditioning?
Is it a required step in the process?
Can (or should) conditioning take place without bruising?
Is there a point at which the process becomes less painful while yielding a buildup of useful toughness?
And what actually occurs as "conditioning" takes place?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
-
Guest
Bruising vs. Conditioning
Aiki, Uechi-ryu has always engaged in conditioning. It's part of the system.
2 Green, take your time it's not a race, going harder doesn't get you there faster. It's a long slow process.
In the zeal of youth I went at it too hard. My first year of Uechi my arms were rather multicolored, and very sore. As time went on I got into forearm conditioning by blocking roundhouse shin kicks. I eventually managed to aquire matching hairline fractures in both forearms.
Like 99% of students I eventually disappeared. This time back(20 years later
)
I have gone at conditioning a lot less extreme. The results are actually better. I received next to no bruises this time around. My arms hurt my training partners frequently when they strike me.
I recommend supplimenting conditioning with;
streaching
strength training
now and then introduce,
glucosamine suppliments
protein suppliments
amino acid suppliments
Laird
good training!
2 Green, take your time it's not a race, going harder doesn't get you there faster. It's a long slow process.
In the zeal of youth I went at it too hard. My first year of Uechi my arms were rather multicolored, and very sore. As time went on I got into forearm conditioning by blocking roundhouse shin kicks. I eventually managed to aquire matching hairline fractures in both forearms.
Like 99% of students I eventually disappeared. This time back(20 years later
)I have gone at conditioning a lot less extreme. The results are actually better. I received next to no bruises this time around. My arms hurt my training partners frequently when they strike me.
I recommend supplimenting conditioning with;
streaching
strength training
now and then introduce,
glucosamine suppliments
protein suppliments
amino acid suppliments
Laird
good training!
-
Allen M.
Bruising vs. Conditioning
Thanks for the info, Bill. I'll cal my MD about the mix althoiugh the writing on the side of the Celebrex script bottle says "May continue taking low dose aspirin..." All this gives me a headache
There are other yellow stickers on the side of the bottle that warn against OTC combos, as well as aganst using alcohol. What a way to have to give up beer.
LOL I was looking up the chemical makeup of alcohol when one link distracted my attention. Scientists found two new elements.
http://www.rof.net/wp/kimball/joke102.htm
'nuff;
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Allen Moulton from Uechi-ryu Etcetera
There are other yellow stickers on the side of the bottle that warn against OTC combos, as well as aganst using alcohol. What a way to have to give up beer.
LOL I was looking up the chemical makeup of alcohol when one link distracted my attention. Scientists found two new elements.
http://www.rof.net/wp/kimball/joke102.htm
'nuff;
------------------
Allen Moulton from Uechi-ryu Etcetera
Bruising vs. Conditioning
Mr. Glasheen,
Thank you for the kind words.
Aiki, our style is a half-hard\half-soft system. Body conditioning is a vital part of it. It has many benefits; one being that it toughens the body for injury prevention. It is very important not just for fighting in the street, but to allow us to train much more intensely. Pain can be a big deterrent in a fight; if you are desensitized to it you may have an advantage. Pain is different for all individuals. You may be able to kick or punch the bag with your weapons and not feel anything, but some cannot tolerate even the slightest sensation of pain. Body conditioning, if done correctly, can help these individuals successfully manage their pain in order to experience the training in a way they thought unimaginable, and overcome this disadvantage in a fight as well.
Thank you for the kind words.
Aiki, our style is a half-hard\half-soft system. Body conditioning is a vital part of it. It has many benefits; one being that it toughens the body for injury prevention. It is very important not just for fighting in the street, but to allow us to train much more intensely. Pain can be a big deterrent in a fight; if you are desensitized to it you may have an advantage. Pain is different for all individuals. You may be able to kick or punch the bag with your weapons and not feel anything, but some cannot tolerate even the slightest sensation of pain. Body conditioning, if done correctly, can help these individuals successfully manage their pain in order to experience the training in a way they thought unimaginable, and overcome this disadvantage in a fight as well.
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Bill Glasheen
- Posts: 17299
- Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
- Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY
Bruising vs. Conditioning
Amen!
Some people bruise more easily than others. Women bruise more easily - on average - than men. That's one of the reasons they live longer (they are less likely to form clots at the narrowing of a diseased artery). If you want to know what it is like to bruise easily, take a baby aspirin once a day, just like cardiac patients do. That should make you turn some nice colors after workouts!
Follow the excellent advice above. Rember that TIME is the key element here. If you aren't flexible, you won't do a full split in a day. The same goes for body conditioning.
What actually happens in conditioning is mostly theory, but it goes something like this.
Putting chi aside...
* Moderate stress on bones (followed by rest) causes the osteoblasts to lay down more calcium along the lines of stress. This is why resistance training is so important for maintaining bone density with age.
* The body tends to lay down connective tissue wherever there is moderate stress (followed by rest). Basically you form your own shin pads or forearm pads. Anyone who has done a second surgery on a site understands how the body can lay down some serious tissue.
* Over time you develop neuromuscular reactions that allow you to reflect rather than absorb energy.
* Over time the smarter people learn how to go with the flow of energy whenever facing a larger mass. There are a number of ways to accomplish that, anywhere from moving your center to rotating to acting like the suspension system of a car.
* Clotting times change (shorten) when under stress or performing exercise. I personally believe you can enhance that with consistent exercise patterns. Basically you plug up the holes in your damaged small vessels before they leak and form bruises.
- Bill
Some people bruise more easily than others. Women bruise more easily - on average - than men. That's one of the reasons they live longer (they are less likely to form clots at the narrowing of a diseased artery). If you want to know what it is like to bruise easily, take a baby aspirin once a day, just like cardiac patients do. That should make you turn some nice colors after workouts!
Follow the excellent advice above. Rember that TIME is the key element here. If you aren't flexible, you won't do a full split in a day. The same goes for body conditioning.
What actually happens in conditioning is mostly theory, but it goes something like this.
Putting chi aside...
* Moderate stress on bones (followed by rest) causes the osteoblasts to lay down more calcium along the lines of stress. This is why resistance training is so important for maintaining bone density with age.
* The body tends to lay down connective tissue wherever there is moderate stress (followed by rest). Basically you form your own shin pads or forearm pads. Anyone who has done a second surgery on a site understands how the body can lay down some serious tissue.
* Over time you develop neuromuscular reactions that allow you to reflect rather than absorb energy.
* Over time the smarter people learn how to go with the flow of energy whenever facing a larger mass. There are a number of ways to accomplish that, anywhere from moving your center to rotating to acting like the suspension system of a car.
* Clotting times change (shorten) when under stress or performing exercise. I personally believe you can enhance that with consistent exercise patterns. Basically you plug up the holes in your damaged small vessels before they leak and form bruises.
- Bill
Bruising vs. Conditioning
I am happy to report that at my last class on Thurs/21, despite a Kanshiwa bunkai session in which I feared body-parts were going to go flying, I experienced no pain from my almost-gone bruises.
This is a completely new experience for me and I cannot explain it at all. The amount of swelling scared me and I was sure I would be out of commission in bunkai for a month.
I really can't believe that the amount of arm-conditioning we do, or my once-a-week pathetic training schedule, could allow me to recover so quickly from a large swollen injury.
So for now it's in the "unexplained Uechi mysteries" category I guess.
This is a completely new experience for me and I cannot explain it at all. The amount of swelling scared me and I was sure I would be out of commission in bunkai for a month.
I really can't believe that the amount of arm-conditioning we do, or my once-a-week pathetic training schedule, could allow me to recover so quickly from a large swollen injury.
So for now it's in the "unexplained Uechi mysteries" category I guess.
