Entering the low stance

Uechij · Post by **Uechij** » Mon Feb 25, 2002 8:39 am

When stepping into the low stance what part of the foot should contact the ground initially? Should the heel strike first, rolling towards the ball of the foot, or should it be the ball first letting the heel follow? Or, do you try to plant the entire bottom of the foot while landing? Let's not forget the forward stance too. How about it...Ideas?

candan · Post by **candan** » Mon Feb 25, 2002 9:35 am

Get a fighter on "his heels" and he hardly stands a chance.

raulf7 · Post by **raulf7** » Mon Feb 25, 2002 6:01 pm

I am not sure what stance you mean but I feel that entering a stance is best done by the toes and if your toe slips your heal will stop you losing balance. I find if you go heal first and if it slips theres nothing left to hold you standing up unless you grab something.

Walking down a steep slippery hill will bare this out, always go toes first imo

Allen M. · Post by **Allen M.** » Tue Feb 26, 2002 3:34 am

Are you talking about a Uechi low stance, Uechij, and if so, which one?

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Allen Moulton from Uechi-ryu Etcetera

nosib · Post by **nosib** » Tue Feb 26, 2002 5:05 am

Alan! you've been working too hard....Uechij ======= uechi stance would be my guess! Sorry,I just had to do it.

Uechij · Post by **Uechij** » Tue Feb 26, 2002 5:27 am

Alan,

any low stance in the Uechi kata. I didn't know that there was a difference between the lowstance postures from kata to kata. Has there been changes made to the system recently that I am not a aware of?

Allen M. · Post by **Allen M.** » Wed Feb 27, 2002 2:22 am

Working too hard. Working too hard..... That must be it.

I didn't know if you were referring to a low stance or to the Uechi stance, which is the lowest of the Uechi stances. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote

Has there been changes made to the system recently that I am not a aware of?

I really don't know.

However... I like to stomp down with the flat of the foot. And when doingso as the strike is completed there is a secondary vibration that comes back up from the floor, through the elbow, and directly into the component, something like the vibration of a jack-hammer. A favorite Sabunim of mine frequently demonstrated the results of this method by having us don as many chest protectors as possible and do an elbow strike something like Uechi's while simultaneously stomping down on his forward foot. He'd release his power in such a manner that you could feel your whole insides vibrate when he hit. He would say that if he hit more powerfully and we didn't have the pads on I'd be dead from the internal disturbance. Since then I go for the stomp because I've learned what it can do.

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Allen Moulton from Uechi-ryu Etcetera

LenTesta · Post by **LenTesta** » Wed Feb 27, 2002 6:11 pm

This is a very interesting question posted by Uechij.

Going back to the basics can answer it though, which is...always keep the knees bent while stepping into any stance. You must have the ball of the foot touch down first to keep the knees bent, then the heel touches down ever so slightly.

How much, of the body weight, is transferred to the front foot depends on which stance you are performing.

I think there are more than one low stance in the Uechi-ryu system.

Kiba dachi---horse stance (Which is never used in kata as it is practiced in most dojo with feet spread apart and on the same line. This is the stance you see many karateka use while practicing punch drills.) Referred to be the stance learned in kanshiwa. It is not.

Sue goshi dachi---modified horse stance (This is the one used in kanshiwa.) This stance is also used in Seisan as the ready for jump back position and the furi hiji ate or furi hiji tsuki position. (Sometimes called the horizontal elbow strikes.)
In this stance...The landing of the foot should always be on the ball of the foot and never with the toes or heels. As I land, I like to make a backward motion with my foot using the ball. The toes grab the flooring as I (quote Allen) stomp. This will keep my body weight centered as I use my blocking arm to rip my opponents attacking arm and shoulder downward. The centered body weight also allows the rotation of the hips while performing the hiji uchi and helps to maintain balance for the turn.

zenkutsu dachi---forward leaning stance. Used in kata for the tate hiji ate or vertical elbow strikes.
While performing this one, I like to use a forward motion with my foot landing on the ball and once again grabbing the flooring with my toes as I stomp. I try to make sure that my elbow is at its full extension before the ball of the foot is placed on the floor. This stance requires that the body weight be behind the elbow and the upper torso be slightly forward to, in effect, lance your opponent on the tip of your elbow. Body weight is slightly forward of center. Then you shift the body weight backward to allow you to go into the next stance while blocking...

kokutso dachi---rear leaning stance (Also used after scooping the leg in advanced kata which follows the hasamu tesho uchi or double handed takedown to the leg).
The return of the front foot into this stance requires that the ball of the foot touch down first. This is the stance that follows the block after the tate hiji ate. While scooping the leg after Hasamu tesho uchi the front foot does not move back. However the weight transfers from the front foot to the rear foot and then to center.

While going into any forward stance you must
remember that when ever the heel touches down first, the knee of that leg will not be in a bent postion. This is not a very good position for it to be in.

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Len

uechiwoman · Post by **uechiwoman** » Wed Feb 27, 2002 11:51 pm

For the Kanshiwa elbow strike I lead with the toes(of the right foot) not putting much weight on the forward moving foot at all. This is because I am striking forward with elbow instead of across. I am landing the elbow before the weight comes down on the foot. I stop my forward momentum by putting my foot down toe, ball, heel. It is amazing how your foot will stick to the floor this way. This way of elbow striking is from Master Nakamatsu.

-Heather

Allen M. · Post by **Allen M.** » Thu Feb 28, 2002 2:27 am

Hi Len,

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote

While going into any forward stance you must remember that when ever the heel touches down first, the knee of that leg will not be in a bent postion. This is not a very good position for it to be in.

I remember in the Northern Praying Mantis part of the Wu-Tang system we used to touch down with the heel first and straight legged in at least one form. I never felt comfortable with that and know that's just where you don't want to be in a fight. But some styles do it.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote

I am landing the elbow before the weight comes down on the foot.

There is good merit to that. When I work the Kanshiwa-style elbow strikes as a two-person set, often the elbow is making contact before the foot touches down as the weight is coming down while the body motion is still going forward, which is different than in the kata.

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Allen Moulton from Uechi-ryu Etcetera

Van Canna · Post by **Van Canna** » Thu Feb 28, 2002 4:07 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote

I am landing the elbow before the weight comes down on the foot. I stop my forward momentum by putting my foot down toe, ball, heel. It is amazing how your foot will stick to the floor this way.

Good description of a power strike.

The very best way of doing this is demonstrated by Shinjio sensei [watch the Okinawan tapes] __ you will see the best "stomp" ever.

His "landing" is exceptional, as it should be since you are invading the enemy's real estate and need to operate from a solid platform, in addition to transmit returning shock waves from the floor as Allen points out.

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Van Canna

Bill Glasheen · Post by **Bill Glasheen** » Thu Feb 28, 2002 2:23 pm

Heather

Good to see you here. You're giving all our secrets away!!

Whether you stomp for authority (perhaps even implying an attack of the foot) or light like a cat jumping off a high perch, the toe/ball/heel method is tops. There are several reasons.

* NBA basketball players who jump up and down (higher than the vast majority that visit these pages) on hard floors, night after night, have learned how to land - or else. The more degrees of freedom of motion you have involved in the land, the less the stress on the body and joints. Again, watch how a house cat (the tiger) does it. Those of you that work out on nice floors (springy wood or padded floors) for only an hour a few times a week may not understand this. Concrete and wood floors with no spring will kill you, particularly with advancing age!

* If you land heel first, you lose the ability to feel your way forward. If you fight or spar long enough, you learn that things happen. Without an ability to feel with your toes, you risk accidentally stepping on a foot and either losing your balance or turning your ankle.

* The same is true if you are offensively minded. There are many interesting locks and takedowns that can be applied with the shin or the knee. One can also attack the opponents foot with a stomp of the heel. That happens best if you feel your way (toes first) into the proper fit. You can't afford to look and give away your intent.

* Again, most folks never get out of the comfort of an ideal dojo. During summers at UVa, I'd have my students jog outside and onto a nice grassy area that had just been watered. Boy is this humbling if you don't move forward correctly!

It's even more humbling (for the life of the gi) when the student goes home and washes this grass and clay stained gi in hot water.

The same goes for gravel or uneven surfaces. The toe/ball/heel method helps you both feel and stick.

* As candan said, <BLOCKQUOTE>quote

Get a fighter on "his heels" and he hardly stands a chance.

Unless you are a taiji practitioner - an entirely different paradigm - the mindset should be the same throughout all movement - turns, steps, slides, and jumps.

- Bill

[This message has been edited by Bill Glasheen (edited February 28, 2002).]

Glenn · Post by **Glenn** » Thu Feb 28, 2002 6:25 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Van Canna:
The very best way of doing this is demonstrated by Shinjio sensei [watch the Okinawan tapes] __ you will see the best "stomp" ever.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Mr. Canna,

My apologies if I have missed something stated earlier, but what are these "Okinawan tapes" you have mentioned in a few posts? Thanks.

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Glenn Humphress
Lincoln, NE

uechiwoman · Post by **uechiwoman** » Tue Mar 05, 2002 1:44 am

Thanks for the welcome Bill! I am happy that I have more time to be here!

Another reason not to land on your heel...
PAIN

Although I usually move into all stances toe, ball, heel, I experimented one day about two years ago with landing on the heel. I was first using it in the more Tai Chi way of gently placing the heel on the ground and then rolling towards the ball of the foot. I was pleased with the different way the energy transferred and so I continued to land on my heel during some forward moving sparring drills. This caused intense heel pain after the workout and I only tried it for about 15 minutes! My heels were very slow to forgive me.

-Heather

2Green · Post by **2Green** » Tue Mar 05, 2002 2:59 am

Here's an interesting experiment which I discovered on my deck last summer:
In your bare feet; walk around, stand, turn,and do any combinations of the above for about a minute, or even more: KEEPING YOUR HEELS about 1/4" off the surface.
All contact is only on the balls/toes/front pad area.
After a minute or so, now allow your heels to lower to the floor.
You will experience a sensation which has to be experienced to be appreciated.
What's amazing is how easy it is to do this; you would think it would be rather strenuous to maintain the lift, but it's not!
Sometimes I do Kanshiwa like this for balance practice (not for real Kata form.)
Might be handy for apt.-dwellers with neighbours below!