Added a new clip to the video site.
But I thought I'd put a link to it here including a real media version which is not on the video site.
Real Media Video (Broadband)
Low Band
Medium Band
Broadband Band (WMV file)
------------------
VISIT:
Uechi-Ryu.Com Multimedia
Uechi-Ryu.Com Hotlist (Martial Art Links)
Taking Charge - Cable TV & Video Martial Arts Show
[This message has been edited by Scott Danziger (edited April 14, 2002).]
New Video
Moderator: Available
-
Scott Danziger
- Posts: 929
- Joined: Thu Sep 17, 1998 6:01 am
- Location: Long Island
- Contact:
-
Bill Glasheen
- Posts: 17299
- Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
- Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY
New Video
Thanks, Scotty!
Glen, Rick, Tony and the rest should look at the very last sequence showing how to do two reverse punches with stepping. I learned that trick from Bobby Bethoney at a Thompson Island camp in the 1980s. That trick will do the following.
1) Employ the most fundamental strike from our system - the reverse thrust off the rear leg, just like in sanchin kata.
2) Allow one to get a thrust off the rear as opposed to the front leg, and avoid the problem of refs not calling those leading leg techniques,
3) Allow one to get great forward momentum in the thrust.
Thus you can have your cake and eat it too. With the PROPER amount of imagination and interpretation, you can employ "traditional" technique in a sport forum. But you need to break out of the rigid mindset first. A lot of people frankly don't know how to interpret kata properly. Things are rarely applied EXACTLY as you see in kata. Kata teach the principles, and the individual applies them according to the specific need.
A little tweaking of the timing of the upper vs. lower body will also help you lead with the technique as opposed to your nose, and thus make it very difficult for your partner to nail you as you come in (they will need to deal with your attack first). But that's easier shown than discussed; perhaps this should be a camp activity. Some people get all in a huff about power and balance and the like when I describe it. Seeing it applied to the heavy bag silences the critics.
- Bill
Glen, Rick, Tony and the rest should look at the very last sequence showing how to do two reverse punches with stepping. I learned that trick from Bobby Bethoney at a Thompson Island camp in the 1980s. That trick will do the following.
1) Employ the most fundamental strike from our system - the reverse thrust off the rear leg, just like in sanchin kata.
2) Allow one to get a thrust off the rear as opposed to the front leg, and avoid the problem of refs not calling those leading leg techniques,
3) Allow one to get great forward momentum in the thrust.
Thus you can have your cake and eat it too. With the PROPER amount of imagination and interpretation, you can employ "traditional" technique in a sport forum. But you need to break out of the rigid mindset first. A lot of people frankly don't know how to interpret kata properly. Things are rarely applied EXACTLY as you see in kata. Kata teach the principles, and the individual applies them according to the specific need.
A little tweaking of the timing of the upper vs. lower body will also help you lead with the technique as opposed to your nose, and thus make it very difficult for your partner to nail you as you come in (they will need to deal with your attack first). But that's easier shown than discussed; perhaps this should be a camp activity. Some people get all in a huff about power and balance and the like when I describe it. Seeing it applied to the heavy bag silences the critics.
- Bill
-
Bill Glasheen
- Posts: 17299
- Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
- Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY
New Video
One more comment...
A little more imagination still allows one to go from the two full steps to the kind of "shuffle step" you see a lot of tournament fighters use. Again...it just take getting out of a rigid mindset to see tradtional technique being applied in fluid motion.
- Bill
A little more imagination still allows one to go from the two full steps to the kind of "shuffle step" you see a lot of tournament fighters use. Again...it just take getting out of a rigid mindset to see tradtional technique being applied in fluid motion.
- Bill
-
SAN-DAI-RYU
- Posts: 541
- Joined: Fri Dec 29, 2000 6:01 am
- Location: PINAMAR-BUENOS AIRES-ARGENTINA
- Contact:
New Video
my friends,
I wait for altavista translates my feeling correctly.
I hope not to be offensive, and what I think sayd with I animate to construct and not to offend
it watches the video and what I saw was tecnicas of karate sport of years 80, or 70. Today in day the groups of the high world-wide class of competition of karate, like the European of Holland, France, Spain, Germany and England, and I do not say japon, since in the world-wide last the 3 of the great organizations of sport karate (W.K.C. and W.K.F.) Japanese in Shiai Kumite have not had satisfactory results. Said that in those groups if there is something it has in sure is that none competing attacks or defends in lineal form, as it is seen in the video, is but, today nobody backs down, single they turn, and to the being attacked they never back down in line, but who absorven with their defense the attacking tecnics, in the place in which they , does not face it nor obstructs the ABSORVEN slightly, turning aside it with a sincronic movement of tandem and forearms.
Nobody, even, hopes, in a fixed place, to be attacked, all the competitors of elite, work causing the attacks, in the place, the form and the circumstance that agrees to them. your you must attack to me when I want when your you propose it, that is not the slogan all turn in form but detrimental possible for the adversary, nobody this estatic a second, nobody affirms to the floor completely, all float, and they affirm to the floor at the moment in which its tecnic makes contact with the body of the east adversary work which I saw in the video, can accustom to somebody with good qualities for the competition, to work in line, fixed, without turning, and trying to obstruct or to block the opposing attack, this formed in that sport competitor very dificult vices of karate to correct soon. This is my opinion only, and if somebody needs material for the development competitors according to karate sport that this seeing itself in the competitions of great world-wide level, in these times, I can help them with great amount of bibliografic material, single that to translate it of the Spanish to ingles.
I hope is understood the translation well Respectfully
Carlos
I wait for altavista translates my feeling correctly.
I hope not to be offensive, and what I think sayd with I animate to construct and not to offend
it watches the video and what I saw was tecnicas of karate sport of years 80, or 70. Today in day the groups of the high world-wide class of competition of karate, like the European of Holland, France, Spain, Germany and England, and I do not say japon, since in the world-wide last the 3 of the great organizations of sport karate (W.K.C. and W.K.F.) Japanese in Shiai Kumite have not had satisfactory results. Said that in those groups if there is something it has in sure is that none competing attacks or defends in lineal form, as it is seen in the video, is but, today nobody backs down, single they turn, and to the being attacked they never back down in line, but who absorven with their defense the attacking tecnics, in the place in which they , does not face it nor obstructs the ABSORVEN slightly, turning aside it with a sincronic movement of tandem and forearms.
Nobody, even, hopes, in a fixed place, to be attacked, all the competitors of elite, work causing the attacks, in the place, the form and the circumstance that agrees to them. your you must attack to me when I want when your you propose it, that is not the slogan all turn in form but detrimental possible for the adversary, nobody this estatic a second, nobody affirms to the floor completely, all float, and they affirm to the floor at the moment in which its tecnic makes contact with the body of the east adversary work which I saw in the video, can accustom to somebody with good qualities for the competition, to work in line, fixed, without turning, and trying to obstruct or to block the opposing attack, this formed in that sport competitor very dificult vices of karate to correct soon. This is my opinion only, and if somebody needs material for the development competitors according to karate sport that this seeing itself in the competitions of great world-wide level, in these times, I can help them with great amount of bibliografic material, single that to translate it of the Spanish to ingles.
I hope is understood the translation well Respectfully
Carlos
-
Bill Glasheen
- Posts: 17299
- Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
- Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY
New Video
Buenos dias, Carlos!
Sorry, I don't speak Spanish, so there will be some difficulty. It was difficult to understand what you wrote, but I think I got the main ideas.
You said that what you observed were sport sparring techniques commonly used in the 1970s and 1980s.
You observed a lot of linear movement of the two opponents. You mentioned that many of the best WKC and WKF competitors of today - mostly found in Europe - tend not to move back with their defenses, but instead move off the line (pivot) while simultaneously applying their blocks.
You mentioned that most competitors today "float" (bounce, as in Western Boxing), and only plant when applying the attacks or defenses.
Is this what you meant to say, Carlos?
- Bill
Sorry, I don't speak Spanish, so there will be some difficulty. It was difficult to understand what you wrote, but I think I got the main ideas.
You said that what you observed were sport sparring techniques commonly used in the 1970s and 1980s.
You observed a lot of linear movement of the two opponents. You mentioned that many of the best WKC and WKF competitors of today - mostly found in Europe - tend not to move back with their defenses, but instead move off the line (pivot) while simultaneously applying their blocks.
You mentioned that most competitors today "float" (bounce, as in Western Boxing), and only plant when applying the attacks or defenses.
Is this what you meant to say, Carlos?
- Bill
New Video
If I may humbly suggest that turning is not a bad idea here, turning and facing that is - or in other words flank him.
If I may also suggest:
A nice variation would be to step in on the first beat and cut off the attack.
For the ‘grabbing’ attacks:
a)
When the attacker pulls down your lead - lift it slightly with elbow in (the San Chin arm position can dissolve his grab) and step in leading his grab into him (unbalancing) while firing the other hand into the Center closeing off the line as you strike.
b)
When the attacker 'grabs' your hand grab his hand back, and violently pull him (stay in your stance), into your other hand, while stepping in. You can pull him into your strike using his momentum. As you pull in his lead arm in his rear will be dissolved and set him up for the Centerline attack.
c)[Preferred]
When the attacker starts to 'grab' your lead hand step in and fire that hand directly at his Center (face) – if he is in mid grab the energy in your fist will blow away his ‘grabbing hand’ or force him to clash with it – then do the above attacks on him.
To choose a, b or c will depend on timing and energy being used.
A variation on the last drill could be to step in and to the outside of his left on the first beat, clear and attack the Center in the same way as above.
For a variation on attack: How about using the grabbing/pinning lead but after you shoot a real lead attack that clashes on his defense then use the rear hand to remove his arm (clear Center) with the jerk pull or pinning hand movement and fire with the now free lead. It is even more favorable if you can get behind his elbow (upper arm near elbow) with a push with the rear hand slightly over the center as you enter - this will take his balance and close off his facing if done right.
------------------
Moy Yat Ving Tsun
Rest in peace dear teacher, dear friend, dear brother, and dear father: Moy Yat Sifu
[This message has been edited by Shaolin (edited April 17, 2002).]
If I may also suggest:
A nice variation would be to step in on the first beat and cut off the attack.
For the ‘grabbing’ attacks:
a)
When the attacker pulls down your lead - lift it slightly with elbow in (the San Chin arm position can dissolve his grab) and step in leading his grab into him (unbalancing) while firing the other hand into the Center closeing off the line as you strike.
b)
When the attacker 'grabs' your hand grab his hand back, and violently pull him (stay in your stance), into your other hand, while stepping in. You can pull him into your strike using his momentum. As you pull in his lead arm in his rear will be dissolved and set him up for the Centerline attack.
c)[Preferred]
When the attacker starts to 'grab' your lead hand step in and fire that hand directly at his Center (face) – if he is in mid grab the energy in your fist will blow away his ‘grabbing hand’ or force him to clash with it – then do the above attacks on him.
To choose a, b or c will depend on timing and energy being used.
A variation on the last drill could be to step in and to the outside of his left on the first beat, clear and attack the Center in the same way as above.
For a variation on attack: How about using the grabbing/pinning lead but after you shoot a real lead attack that clashes on his defense then use the rear hand to remove his arm (clear Center) with the jerk pull or pinning hand movement and fire with the now free lead. It is even more favorable if you can get behind his elbow (upper arm near elbow) with a push with the rear hand slightly over the center as you enter - this will take his balance and close off his facing if done right.
------------------
Moy Yat Ving Tsun
Rest in peace dear teacher, dear friend, dear brother, and dear father: Moy Yat Sifu
[This message has been edited by Shaolin (edited April 17, 2002).]
-
SAN-DAI-RYU
- Posts: 541
- Joined: Fri Dec 29, 2000 6:01 am
- Location: PINAMAR-BUENOS AIRES-ARGENTINA
- Contact:
New Video
In combat a sport karate, of the 3 fundamental elements, tactic, extrategy and tecnic, the winner is always, for that can impose its tactic and its strategy.
The tecnica is in a secondary plane, since is inapplicable unless you handle the situation tactic and estrategy.
Carlos Sensei
The tecnica is in a secondary plane, since is inapplicable unless you handle the situation tactic and estrategy.
Carlos Sensei
New Video
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SAN-DAI-RYU:
In combat a sport karate, of the 3 fundamental elements, tactic, extrategy and tecnic, the winner is always, for that can impose its tactic and its strategy.
The tecnica is in a secondary plane, since is inapplicable unless you handle the situation tactic and estrategy.
Carlos Sensei <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Agreed - that's why I suggested techniques that all focus on control of the Centerline, using Interception and Issuing Energy in a synergistic way to get the job done. These are the most critical ‘tactics’ IMO for close range fighting..
------------------
Moy Yat Ving Tsun
Rest in peace dear teacher, dear friend, dear brother, and dear father: Moy Yat Sifu
In combat a sport karate, of the 3 fundamental elements, tactic, extrategy and tecnic, the winner is always, for that can impose its tactic and its strategy.
The tecnica is in a secondary plane, since is inapplicable unless you handle the situation tactic and estrategy.
Carlos Sensei <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Agreed - that's why I suggested techniques that all focus on control of the Centerline, using Interception and Issuing Energy in a synergistic way to get the job done. These are the most critical ‘tactics’ IMO for close range fighting..
------------------
Moy Yat Ving Tsun
Rest in peace dear teacher, dear friend, dear brother, and dear father: Moy Yat Sifu
New Video
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote
And it is the core concept of Uechi as demonstrated by the forms.
Toyama sensei reports that Kanbun sensei was so quick at intercepting and flanking that he would actually exchange place with the attacker when dealing with the attack.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> In almost no cases do we see the old style of backing off while
blocking, grasping, pulling, and making the attacker overextend, pulling him
off-balance and into the counter.
I was told long ago (spurious tale time) that Kanbun Sensei was so fast at
taikawashi and so good with his blocking technique that even in a tiny
enclosed space, he could block his attacker and do a quick-switch place
change with him.
That is, he could block you and pull you forward, and
change places with you before you knew what was going on. It almost seemed
he disappeared and reappeared suddenly behind you or in your place, while
you somehow shifted to his former position.
He learned this art in China
under SHUU Sensei. It lends some credence to the legends of the fighting
monks who "disappeared before your eyes" and suddenly popped up behind
you...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
But depending on the situation, we might be better served by “step in and cut off” concept that Jim talks about. That way you won’t have to worry about whether or not your block will be successful, and you will negate about 50% of your opponent’s power and momentum.
The training should focus on “moving when he is about to move” and beat him to the move.
This core concept is embedded by the “Dantai no kata” drills that Toyama sensei teaches.
All of our pre-arranged kumites should be changed to reflect either the “step in first” or the “flank and counter” strategy as Jim and Carlos bring up.
The ‘straight back’ moves we do in prearranged kumite, are nothing but suicidal in the long run. But like I said, you cannot enter a room packed to the ceiling with junk.
Jim, very good strategies outlined. Thank you.
------------------
Van Canna
I agree totally. Those are the only ways to have a chance at overcoming or scoring on the opponent. The only ways I now teach to handle an exchange.or in other words flank him. If I may also suggest: A nice variation would be to step in on the first beat and cut off the attack.
And it is the core concept of Uechi as demonstrated by the forms.
Toyama sensei reports that Kanbun sensei was so quick at intercepting and flanking that he would actually exchange place with the attacker when dealing with the attack.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> In almost no cases do we see the old style of backing off while
blocking, grasping, pulling, and making the attacker overextend, pulling him
off-balance and into the counter.
I was told long ago (spurious tale time) that Kanbun Sensei was so fast at
taikawashi and so good with his blocking technique that even in a tiny
enclosed space, he could block his attacker and do a quick-switch place
change with him.
That is, he could block you and pull you forward, and
change places with you before you knew what was going on. It almost seemed
he disappeared and reappeared suddenly behind you or in your place, while
you somehow shifted to his former position.
He learned this art in China
under SHUU Sensei. It lends some credence to the legends of the fighting
monks who "disappeared before your eyes" and suddenly popped up behind
you...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
But depending on the situation, we might be better served by “step in and cut off” concept that Jim talks about. That way you won’t have to worry about whether or not your block will be successful, and you will negate about 50% of your opponent’s power and momentum.
The training should focus on “moving when he is about to move” and beat him to the move.
This core concept is embedded by the “Dantai no kata” drills that Toyama sensei teaches.
All of our pre-arranged kumites should be changed to reflect either the “step in first” or the “flank and counter” strategy as Jim and Carlos bring up.
The ‘straight back’ moves we do in prearranged kumite, are nothing but suicidal in the long run. But like I said, you cannot enter a room packed to the ceiling with junk.
Jim, very good strategies outlined. Thank you.
------------------
Van Canna
-
Bill Glasheen
- Posts: 17299
- Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
- Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY
New Video
Van
You're going to have to explain the junked room analogy some time. I think I understand what you are trying to say but...perhaps when we meet next.
To start with, I think we have to be somewhat forgiving of a clip that was probably meant to be a kyu-level exercise. Students have to start somewhere.
However...
I am in agreement with the flanking and movement concepts discussed. Not only do we see it applied by better martial artists, but it is common in other sports activities like football and basketball.
It's a darned shame that so much attention is spent on stationary exercises in traditional Uechi dojos, and so little is spent on the movement that makes it effective. Movement in partner activity pretty much stays at a kyu level, even in advanced kumite and bunkai.
I can remember in my days working out with Clyde Takaguchi (aikido instructor near Bethesda) that he wouldn't allow folks on the floor until they knew basic concepts of movement. He was quite explicit and emphatic about that, and folks stayed on the beginners’ mats until they had the concepts down. None of that stuff really works without it.
My barroom brawl exercise pretty much brings that out of people - or else.
It makes me wonder whether or not we instructors have it right by being so preoccupied with the one-on-one venue. How "natural" is that anyhow, other than in the competitive venue? Good, classical-looking technique from this system seems to magically evolve when you throw people in the free-for-all pit. All you need to do from there is to tweak the natural evolution of movement. It makes you wonder...
Centerline concepts are another activity altogether. I've spent quite a bit of time watching several of my Wing Chun tapes. At times I feel I can get as much or more out of what I should know about this Chinese infighting system by...watching applications of Chinese infighting systems. Hmmm...
- Bill
You're going to have to explain the junked room analogy some time. I think I understand what you are trying to say but...perhaps when we meet next.
To start with, I think we have to be somewhat forgiving of a clip that was probably meant to be a kyu-level exercise. Students have to start somewhere.
However...
I am in agreement with the flanking and movement concepts discussed. Not only do we see it applied by better martial artists, but it is common in other sports activities like football and basketball.
It's a darned shame that so much attention is spent on stationary exercises in traditional Uechi dojos, and so little is spent on the movement that makes it effective. Movement in partner activity pretty much stays at a kyu level, even in advanced kumite and bunkai.
I can remember in my days working out with Clyde Takaguchi (aikido instructor near Bethesda) that he wouldn't allow folks on the floor until they knew basic concepts of movement. He was quite explicit and emphatic about that, and folks stayed on the beginners’ mats until they had the concepts down. None of that stuff really works without it.
My barroom brawl exercise pretty much brings that out of people - or else.
It makes me wonder whether or not we instructors have it right by being so preoccupied with the one-on-one venue. How "natural" is that anyhow, other than in the competitive venue? Good, classical-looking technique from this system seems to magically evolve when you throw people in the free-for-all pit. All you need to do from there is to tweak the natural evolution of movement. It makes you wonder...Centerline concepts are another activity altogether. I've spent quite a bit of time watching several of my Wing Chun tapes. At times I feel I can get as much or more out of what I should know about this Chinese infighting system by...watching applications of Chinese infighting systems. Hmmm...
- Bill
-
Bill Glasheen
- Posts: 17299
- Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
- Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY
New Video
Van
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote
When someone sucker punches you, or otherwise lunges at you, what is natural? Is it natural - under those conditions - to respond to the surpise attack with <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote
What would be the very first response of even a properly trained fighter to a surprise attack? And what does Tony Blauer tell us about this scenario with his SPEAR strategy?
- Bill
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote
Allow me to play devil's advocate with you, if I may. Often this is a good way to study concepts.The ‘straight back’ moves we do in prearranged kumite, are nothing but suicidal in the long run.
When someone sucker punches you, or otherwise lunges at you, what is natural? Is it natural - under those conditions - to respond to the surpise attack with <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote
???the “step in first” or the “flank and counter” strategy
What would be the very first response of even a properly trained fighter to a surprise attack? And what does Tony Blauer tell us about this scenario with his SPEAR strategy?
- Bill
-
Bill Glasheen
- Posts: 17299
- Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
- Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY
New Video
George
Your points are well taken. My initial response speaks to my approval of the reverse punch sequence. We work on something similar.
Van
Still interested in talking about what I posted above, when you get a chance. I've read a little bit about Blauer and his SPEAR system, and would love to discuss more. Heck...maybe we can get Tony online if he has a little spare time (or one of his online proteges)!
- Bill
Your points are well taken. My initial response speaks to my approval of the reverse punch sequence. We work on something similar.
Van
Still interested in talking about what I posted above, when you get a chance. I've read a little bit about Blauer and his SPEAR system, and would love to discuss more. Heck...maybe we can get Tony online if he has a little spare time (or one of his online proteges)!
- Bill
New Video
Having looked at the video and then reading the comments I have to say that none of the comments (other than GEM's) have anything to do with the video clip itself :-)
(You may ask yourself how does he know? I'm in the video)
The drill as GEM pointed out was an attempt to get folks ready for the tournament in May. The emphasis was on the attackers being able to SCORE a point in a one-two fashion. The emphasis was not on the defenders ability to defend him/herself.
Since this thread sparked a flurry of interest in what a proper defense could/should be, perhaps now is the time to start posting videos of defense drills and critique them.
--Harry
------------------
(You may ask yourself how does he know? I'm in the video)
The drill as GEM pointed out was an attempt to get folks ready for the tournament in May. The emphasis was on the attackers being able to SCORE a point in a one-two fashion. The emphasis was not on the defenders ability to defend him/herself.
Since this thread sparked a flurry of interest in what a proper defense could/should be, perhaps now is the time to start posting videos of defense drills and critique them.
--Harry
------------------
-
SAN-DAI-RYU
- Posts: 541
- Joined: Fri Dec 29, 2000 6:01 am
- Location: PINAMAR-BUENOS AIRES-ARGENTINA
- Contact:
New Video
Harry
Sorry not to agree to practice to attack, without considering the defense. and soon to practice to perfection defense formerly aside.
It seems me something positive, if you this practicing to improve individual movements, nontransferibles to a sport fight of karate. Otherwise, serious like in Soccer, to make an attacker practice to make goals against an arc without arquero.
Carlos
Sorry not to agree to practice to attack, without considering the defense. and soon to practice to perfection defense formerly aside.
It seems me something positive, if you this practicing to improve individual movements, nontransferibles to a sport fight of karate. Otherwise, serious like in Soccer, to make an attacker practice to make goals against an arc without arquero.
Carlos
