Depth of Art !

GSantaniello · Post by **GSantaniello** » Thu May 02, 2002 12:43 am

Van,

It's unfortunate that you misinterpreted my intent. In no way was Joe's abilities being questioned, nor was a "depth of kata" vs. "fighting ability/cross training etc." being suggested.

Having gone to some of your T.C. classes, i recall all we worked on was "kata".
Body mechanics, explosive power, breathing. Elements within that you focus on.

I have not cut you down on the forums even if i do not agree. Please show me the same respect.

I can not always post things in ways that "everyone" will understand. Nor should my thoughts, views and/or beliefs be subjective to sarcasim and critisizm.

One should not "assume" someone elses intent or meaning simply because it suites them.

Sorry for the misunderstanding, hope we can put it behind and leave it here.

Respectfully,

------------------

Gary S.

Bill Glasheen · Post by **Bill Glasheen** » Thu May 02, 2002 1:09 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote

What irritates me and other well respected seniors, and the fighters of today, is the attitude of some Uechi practitioners...

- Van

Hmmm... Just whom are these folks? <BLOCKQUOTE>quote

May I suggest that you don't take comments to close unless something is directly addressed to you and/or you were quoted.

- david

Food for thought, for both sides of the fence.

Many of us have been the deliverer of and presumed recipient of these phantom insults. It's difficult to have a forum where you can both speak your mind and not insult or be insulted.

- Bill

candan · Post by **candan** » Thu May 02, 2002 3:18 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Many of us have been the deliverer of and presumed recipient of these phantom insults.
It's difficult to have a forum where you can both speak your mind and not insult or be
insulted.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Nicely said Bill.

I was on a forum last year for Scouters, they were much more insulting than any post here. When they discovered I wore earings..them old boys had me dressed up as a Girl Guide. Anyway, where else can you push someones button and know the worst you will get is an honest opinion. We are still all pioneers in this form of communication and the ground rules (internet) are not fully established (how personnal should we allow it to be to us?). We see no body language, or interact directly in anyway with the 'other(s)" as we "speak" Therefore, we are virtually passing notes back and forth under a door to a large group on the other side.

Van Canna · Post by **Van Canna** » Thu May 02, 2002 4:49 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote

It's unfortunate that you misinterpreted my intent. In no way was Joe's abilities being questioned, nor was a "depth of kata" vs. "fighting ability/cross training etc." being suggested.

Now I am confused Gary. Where do you read that I misrepresented your intent?

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote

I have not cut you down on the forums even if i do not agree. Please show me the same respect.

Are you serious? Where have I cut you down? If there is something I have written that you think is directed at you, let me know and I will delete it. I always speak in generalities.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote

I can not always post things in ways that "everyone" will understand. Nor should my thoughts, views and/or beliefs be subjective to sarcasim and critisizm.

Stop thinking that you were singled out, because you were not. Here is what I wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote

I agree with Gary that we should all continue our quest deep into the kata, but not at the exclusion of other ancillary companion components, cross training or modern concepts, that can be just as valid overall in honing defensive skills.

I did not mean to imply that you were trying to exclude the companion concepts. But many do, and that’s who I was targeting. My fault for not having been clear. So relax, will you.

My point is to explore the depths of the kata as well as the depths of complimentary cross training theory. This is the advice I give to all my students. Kata is but one component of a well-rounded budo-ka __that is what I am trying to say.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote

Hmmm... Just whom are these folks?

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote

Many of us have been the deliverer of and presumed recipient of these phantom insults. It's difficult to have a forum where you can both speak your mind and not insult or be insulted.

Phantom insults. I like that. It comes with the territory. We have all done it and experienced it in one form or another.

Beliefs are the usual target of argument, and that is the natural condition of man.

It is the human condition we are up against, Bill. As you say, it is almost impossible to both speak your mind, assert your personality and beliefs, without insulting or feeling insulted by the exchanges.

This is one strong reason why many people have said they will never get involved in these forums. Like who needs the aggravation.

In view of all that, it takes real fortitude to write and moderate a forum, as sooner or later whatever is written will become controversial for one reason or another, and it will piss off some individual, group, or gender.

Interesting to see how we all get triggered as to the give and take of these insults.

The common denominator of all this is prejudices. They are part of our personality structure, and surface to color our perception and thinking without our being aware of it.

And because of this, logic goes into gridlock.

But that’s the fun of it all, no?

`

------------------
Van Canna

[This message has been edited by Van Canna (edited May 02, 2002).]

Bill Glasheen · Post by **Bill Glasheen** » Thu May 02, 2002 5:08 am

candan

Humor will get you far in life. I give credit for it (in specific questions) when I give written tests in martial arts. Indeed it is as valuable a survival mechanism as strength and speed.

One of the funniest exhibitions I ever witnessed was a black Canadian ventriloquist that performed two years in a row at the Mattson camp. The first year - for me - was the funniest. He was a decent enough guy, but fairly small and skinny. It seems that earlier that day he must have ended up as a "volunteer" in one of Sensei Malone's pressure point classes.

You folks that haven't been there just won't quite understand... Let's just say he got roughed up a bit.

Sooo...there was the comedian later that night with his dummy. Jimmy and his terminally beautiful wife were sitting in the front row. The comedian played the straight, and his dummy said everything that we always wish we could say, but wouldn't dare. Oh...my...god....!!!! The dummy flirted with Jimmy's wife (VERY blue humor, folks...). The dummy threatened Jimmy (I've got a whole army of dummies in the trunk, and were gonna KICK your ***.) Jimmy was laughing way too hard to return the favor. It went on, and on, and on...

Would YOU threaten Jimmy and flirt with his wife in front of his face???

Jimmy was no less funny the next morning when making announcements. (Once again, VERY blue humor.)

Anyhow, your joke about the engineer was right on the money.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote

I used to remember those undergraduate classes where the students would moan whenever they had to do theoretical proofs.

I truly felt like a fish out of water in undergraduate engineering. I first spent two years in a liberal arts college, and then transferred into undergraduate engineering. Engineers at UVa - sadly enough - were no longer required to take English and language classes in the college, partly because many talented techies couldn't pass those classes. Instead they had "engineering humanities." Talk about an oxymoron... And then they would get jobs where they could do the technical work, but couldn't communicate it or write it up. Very sad...

And yes, then there were those classes in pure math, where they would moan at theorems and proofs. Meanwhile, all the stuff that they learned had a foundation in such. Any new and wonderful discoveries had to start there. So someone gets really good at a certain piece of technology, like say personal motion picture cameras. Then handicams come out, and your "personal expertise" is suddenly outdated. Yikes! Better know how to reinvent yourself fast, or you're going to be spending a LONG time unemployed! <BLOCKQUOTE>quote

I'M SMART!! Knock on wood...

This is a literary device that I use with my son all the time. I check every bit of his completed homework daily, and make sure nothing gets handed in that isn't the best he can do. He'll get into arguments with me about this or about that. (Reminds me of someone...

) In the end, I'll show him that indeed he did something wrong and he needs to correct it. My son - deep inside - thinks that my knowledge comes from the ethos or something. When he asks me how I knew (because he assumes he can never get there), I respond with the "I'M SMART!

" answer. It's so blatantly obnoxious that it makes him think other than the fact that I was born with all of what I bring to the table. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote

As the engineer was placed carefully to meet his faith..all were quiet as the executer prepared to realease the blade " Hold it wait, I see the problem..a bolt is protruding into the track, help me up I can fix it!"

Not very smart, and VERY on target. The vast majority of those engineers that made fun of the "basket weavers" in the college never "got it" on the subject of a broad education. And sadly enough, the SAME THING can be said for the liberal arts majors that eschewed math and science.

Van

As I stated... <BLOCKQUOTE>quote

The kata vs. sparring vs. fighting arguments are so tiresome!

When I stated that above - and I see some of the responses - I see that not everyone "gets it." I believe you do.

- Bill

Tony-San · Post by **Tony-San** » Thu May 02, 2002 5:24 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Arrogance will get you nowhere, the time will come when you might just have to prove how deep you have been in your kata, and how you measure up against cross training. I’d like to see a demo of “kata depth” against guys like Joe Pomfret and Jim De Luca.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Was this directed at me or what? How was I arrogant?

david · Post by **david** » Thu May 02, 2002 10:48 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote

Many of us have been the deliverer of and presumed recipient of these phantom insults. It's difficult to have a forum where you can both speak your mind and not insult or be insulted.

Bill,

Yes. Does happen doesn't it? I remember having a slight misunderstanding with a moderator when this site was simply the "Roundtable Forum."

Golden Rule for me: Try to not take these discussions too seriously. Definitely don't take myself too seriously. I have learned to walk away from most insults on the streets. I certainly can do that better here on the rare occaisons that I think it's occurring.

Come at me physically in 3D world, well, that's another story.

david

student · Post by **student** » Thu May 02, 2002 11:38 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by david:
Come at me physically in 3D world, well, that's another story.

david

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Come at you physically?
I may be crazy, David, but I'm not stupid!

student

[This message has been edited by student (edited May 02, 2002).]

Ted Dinwiddie · Post by **Ted Dinwiddie** » Thu May 02, 2002 2:35 pm

I, for one, look at these forums as a kind of dojo. They stimulate my thoughts, philosophies, and approach to practice. Yes, expressing one's beliefs and exposing them to challenge is difficult, but it can force one to fully consider them. It is beneficial to be forced to realize that equally adamant and thoughtful people who may be of greater knowledge and experience do not see it the way you do. It is beneficial to engage in these discussions and "take your licks"; it improves reasoning and understanding.

The world I live in provides many more thinking and expressing challenges than physical combat ones.

A saying I heard somewhere:

"We cry in the dojo so that we may laugh on the battlefield"

------------------
ted

"I learn by going where I have to go." - Theodore Roethke

david · Post by **david** » Thu May 02, 2002 2:51 pm

Aahh... Before Student gives folks the wrong impression, let me say I am NOT the "BADDEST DUDE" that walk the land. Rather I simply restating an old adage that I try to take to heart:

Sticks and bricks may break my bones.... Thus, I better commit to defending if it's indeed that.

but names will never hurt... Especially if I can ignore it and not let it get to a place where it may be "sticks and bricks" or worse.

david

[This message has been edited by david (edited May 02, 2002).]

GSantaniello · Post by **GSantaniello** » Tue May 07, 2002 1:43 am

Yes, we are at times subjects of "Phantom Insults" being the deliverer or reciever.

Thank you folks who have put a positive spin and input to the thread.

Van, sorry for the disagreement. Thank you for responding to my e-mail. I would like for it to be known that there is no "hard feelings" between us and i can see that your post was not directed at me on this thread.

Best regards

------------------

Gary S.

Van Canna · Post by **Van Canna** » Tue May 07, 2002 3:30 am

Gary,

No problem at all. We have been friends too long for any hard feelings over a misunderstanding. It is my poor attempts at humor,that sometimes get me in trouble.

See you at the tournament.

------------------
Van Canna

[This message has been edited by Van Canna (edited May 06, 2002).]