Uechi Championship Debriefing

Post by **gmattson** » Mon May 20, 2002 5:53 am

I won't be able to post the results of the Championships until "Bap" sends them to me. I should have had Steve DiOrio collect this information as it was happening, but forgot. I have lots of pictures though and as soon as Bill Glasheen leaves for the airport I'll get them posted.

Bottom line... All the officials did a fine job and the addition of a rules administrator was a great idea. Jay Salhanick did a really fine job making sure all the questions got answered and any problem solved before it became a big deal.

I believe the decision to go with the NASKA rules was a smart move. We were able to maintain good techniques along with controlled contact. . . Certainly a first for a Uechi event.

Hopefully, now that we have proved that this type of competition is both possible and enjoyable, perhaps more of our Uechi teachers will encourage their students to get involved.

Thanks to everyone involved with this tournament for making it so successful.

More later. . .

------------------
GEM

LenTesta · Post by **LenTesta** » Mon May 20, 2002 1:46 pm

Congratulations Fedele on winning the "A" Division Lightweight point fighting. I have a couple of great photos of that match. I will pass them along to Sensei Mattson today. I can give them to you tonight at the TC Class.

Congratulations also go out to Sensei Raffi Derderian for his excellent performance in the Kata Division.
--------------------------------------------

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote

One individual performed an EXTREMELY powerful form, but the balance was very shaky. Another individual performed an EXTREMELY precise form, but with suspect power and spirit.

Bill: From what I saw at the judging of kata in the tournament, I am forced to believe that a kata, performed in competition, that is seriously lacking in spirit, power, and performance is better than
a kata that slightly lacked precision. Are you stating that this performance of a mundane but precise kata is what the students of Uechi-ryu should be practicing? Precision is definitely a main factor for judging a tournament kata. However, a contestant that performs a precise, non-spirited kata, which is seriously lacking in tempo and power, is only demonstrating one aspect of training. A kata that is pushed to the limits of precision with EXTREME power, performed with spirit is in my mind a better way for Uechi-ryu to be demonstrated in a competition atmosphere.

---------------------------------------------

I will agree that under testing conditions, for rank promotion, a kata such as the one performed extremely precise is preferred over a kata that shows more power and spirit. However, this was not a test.
It was a competition to demonstrate ALL the aspects of Uechi-ryu kata movements. Two out of three is better than one out of three…NO? And just what were suspect, the balance of power, speed, and softness, or the balance of stature? Some precision may have been sacrificed because of the overloading of the power aspect. However, under real self-defense conditions I believe that movements performed with spirit and power will more than make up for a slight sacrifice in precision.

Once the judges chose the precision kata over the powerful spirited kata, a message was clearly given to all future competitors. In effect the judges are saying that precision alone and the removal of spirit and power, two aspects that can make a big difference to anyone who wishes to use this training in a real self-defense situation, is the preferred way of competing. Do we train our students to compete in tournaments or do we train for realistic self-defense? How can you justify to your students that mind, body and spirit should be instilled in their training and then judge a competition of two forms giving the more precisely performed kata a higher score even though the spirit and performance was lacking?

It is no wonder that a great fighter such as Joe Pomfret is questioning and considering cutting down the kata training in his dojo. What exactly are we teaching our students? Is it better to perform weak and precise moves with one move flowing into the next with no spirit? A mundane kata with metronome tempo performed with precision will be all you need to be able to effectively defend yourself? I don’t think so.

Given the choice between practicing a kata with powerful movements that push the body to brink of exhaustion, or practicing a kata that will sacrifice those things that will definitely be needed if ever used in a real self defense situation, I would think that everyone would prefer the more powerful way.

If anyone thinks that training in such a fashion is not training for real or will not help you to become a good fighter, just let the results of the “A” Division Lightweight Match speak for themselves. First Place – Fidele Cacia, TC Student. Second Place – Andrew Moores, former TC Student, and student of a great fighter-Stephen Perry. There wasn’t much precision in their techniques although they were awesomely powerful and very fast.

Try fighting either one of them with a perfect precisely performed technique lacking in sprit and power and see what happens. They will run you over like a MACK TRUCK and leave you flattened to be scrapped up like a squashed piece of discarded gum.

------------------
Len

Bill Glasheen · Post by **Bill Glasheen** » Mon May 20, 2002 3:46 pm

Len

First, you did well. 'Nuff said.

Second, you are very hard on yourself. Competitions need to be taken in the spirit in which they are meant. You go head to head with others, and only one person gets the prize. But everyone benefits, because the competition makes us ALL sharper. And we ALL learn, go home and make corrections, and come back the next day.

Third, you did not see your kata. You performed the kata; three judges saw the kata. If your kata were that much better than the individual you lost to in a runoff, it would have been easy for any fool to plainly see. It apparently was not, because you tied this individual, and then only got one out of the three votes in a runoff. As for the OTHER individual, if HIS kata were that much better than yours, then HE wouldn't have tied you in the first place, and walked away with a split decision. You BOTH had shortcomings.

And so do I.

And so does every judge on that panel.

This isn't about TC vs. the world. Don't go there, because I will not. Van and I were talking about aspects of your kata, and WE BOTH saw elements that needed correction. We had a very lengthy discussion about this.

I am not foreign to TC concepts, because they are not original. Perhaps you should view the following thread.

Personal kata

Then, ask your TC instructor where he started picking up some of his concepts. Van is a very smart sensei. You will find that Van and I have BOTH stolen good ideas from Shotokan greats. We BOTH have worked with Nakamatsu-line practitioners. We BOTH have worked with Shinjo Kiyohide.

And frankly, everyone works with everyone else. Your logic is flawed, because we as individual martial practitioners cannot be fit into nice neat bins. If we could, then it wouldn't be a martial art. We each are exposed to concepts, and develop into individual expressions of the fundamental principles. To be a clone of someone is not to have fully absorbed the lessons of your instructor and made them your own. Furthermore, the practitioners you mentioned were great practitioners before having worked with Van. And their students will be great when both Van and I are pushing daisies.

Fidele is Fidele. HE earned his trophies. Not even the Brits can take credit.

Andrew is Andrew. Andrew and I were working out together the night before the tournament with Ron Fagen running the class. Can I claim credit? Can Ron? No way, Jose. ANDREW earned his trophy.

You might take some time to think about the statistical concepts of association and causality, and the ability to precisely attribute such in real life with real people. But perhaps I wax too analytic.

We are all lucky that we have so many great ideas and practitioners and concepts to work with.

There are a few interesting things that you brought forth, and I will deal with them here. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote

It is no wonder that a great fighter such as Joe Pomfret is questioning and considering cutting down the kata training in his dojo.

At the lunch after the tournament, I was talking with Joe about the two person kata - yes, kata - that he is choreographing to teach grappling concepts. I don't see a guy like Joe abandoning any of the great classic training tools.

And speaking of such, have you ever seen the Gracies fight in the UFC? Does their EFFECTIVENESS look anything like a "Mack Truck?" What of the Torreadore that defeats the bull? Does he do so with superior power? <BLOCKQUOTE>quote

Once the judges chose the precision kata over the powerful spirited kata, a message was clearly given to all future competitors.

This isn't either/or. We want it all. The other performer's kata was marginally better than yours.

You were not the poster boy of power kata; I have seen power kata. Take a look at the top two winners in the lower black belt division. Their power was far superior to anything I saw in the upper black belt division. Chad's in particular (the second place winner) was the best I saw that day, and made everything else second best in comparison. But now let's use him as an example. Why didn't he get first place??? He didn't because he made a WHITE BELT error - he cut his blocks short (he didn't complete the circles). I told him that - for his edification - and I expect him to come back next year and win the whole bloody tournament. He is that close to doing it, and the rest of you better start working if you want to keep up with him. How about it, Chad?

I made white belt errors on my nanadan test. We all do from time to time - particularly under stress. Ahhh...now there's an interesting thing to ponder.

What does that tell us? What can we learn from this?

You made white belt errors in your kata, Len.
Can you learn from the experience? Will it make you a better practitioner? Will you go back to Van and give him a chance to work with you and make you better? And will you take his concepts and make them your own? Will you make him proud? Will you bring the best out of yourself?
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote

Given the choice between practicing a kata with powerful movements that push the body to brink of exhaustion, or practicing a kata that will sacrifice those things that will definitely be needed if ever used in a real self defense situation, I would think that everyone would prefer the more powerful way.

In a real self defense situation where you are extremely stressed (not all self defense situations work out that way), everything in the way of form and precision and (more importantly) effectiveness starts to unravel. If it's starting to unravel at a tournament in your own home town, what's it going to be like when you stare the Grim Reaper in the face? Food for thought.

On a final note, Van and I had some wonderful discussions after the tournament. As Van stated, in the old days the best guys won both the kata and the sparring events. Perhaps we all have a lot to learn back in the dojo. I know I do. I was happy to have Ron Fagen bust my chops (figuratively speaking) for two hours on Friday night. He verbally abused me like a great coach does to a good student. It was great.

We should never be "too old" or "too good" for that.

Don't ever miss an opportunity to learn, Len. You have a perfect one right in front of you.

- Bill

LenTesta · Post by **LenTesta** » Mon May 20, 2002 6:03 pm

Bill:

Sensei Mattson has all the pictures that I sent to you. If he wishes to post them I would not object.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote

Yes, his kata is a thing of beauty and power.

Thank you much for the kind words. I did not believe that you were saying that it was complete garbage.

Yes there are going to be mistakes when competing. Only the best at anthing can consider themselves a professional. If I never made any mistakes while in competition on the baseball field I would have been a pro ballplayer. I guess I will never be a Champion. I guess I just dont have what it takes to reach that last milestone. To go the final distance. To perform error free.

Sensei Mattson: I am not questioning the judges decision. I am questioning the criteria for which they based their decision.

To judge a performance strickly on precision is leaving out two other factors that should be considered in scoring.

Performance and tempo.

I suggested to Bill that scoring should be done with two sets of scores. One set for precision and one set for performance.

I always take this into account when I judge although I do it in my head and not keep seperate scores.

Some forms were not penalized for lack of performance and tempo. However, some of the forms that were performed with much spirit and tempo were penalized for lack of precision.

Why two sets of rules but not two sets of scores?

------------------
Len

Bill Glasheen · Post by **Bill Glasheen** » Mon May 20, 2002 8:13 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote

I guess I just dont have what it takes to ... perform error free.

The perfect kata exists only in our minds. The best performances aren't perfect performances. There is always room for improvement.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>To judge a performance strickly on precision is leaving out two other factors that should be considered in scoring.

Performance and tempo.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> It's all important, Len, and it was all taken into consideration.

But to go further is to go a place that George is suggesting we avoid.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote

I suggested to Bill that scoring should be done with two sets of scores. One set for precision and one set for performance.

That's a constructive suggestion. This is something people do in ice skating. At the very least, folks will understand about various aspects of performance in the final result. The only argument against this is "KISS." I have done tests before (on prearranged kumite) where I actually gave numeric scores (from five judges) on five aspects of the performance. It is possible.

Speaking of technical aspects vs. "performance," you should see Nestor Folta do kata some time. He was one of the former kata champions. He has it all.

As George says, these are things that we can perhaps experiment with between now and the next tournament. But you shouldn't assume that all these things aren't taken into account. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote

I guess I will never be a Champion.

Really? I beg to differ.

There can only be one champion on any one day. But there are many days ahead, and many criteria by which to measure "performance."

- Bill

mikemurphy · Post by **mikemurphy** » Mon May 20, 2002 8:57 pm

Len and Bill,

I wasn't going to jumpt into this conversation, as I think you both were making some great points, but Lenny's last post made me want to add something. I agree that tournament is tournament and more people are going to leave disappointed than happy. I think that is the nature of competition; however, I wouldn't be disappointed if I were you Lenny. I thought your kata was great (and I'm not the greatest advocate of the TC principal, but I do respect it). You, unfortunately, were was in the hardest division that I judged. A lot of great kata went that day, and only a couple of slight mistakes in direction differentiated who came in first and fourth in my book. You should be proud!

The insight I wanted to add about judging is that it is a terrible job! But in judging
you mention three criteria to go by: power, performance, and tempo. I would tell you right now that this is not what I looked at only. I add two other concepts when judging, accuracy (especially at BB level) and dynamics(we are after all a hard/soft style). I even look at some protocol too. A person would never get consideration from me as a judge if they can't show the proper respect and bow in to the judges.

Anyway, just thought I would add my $0.02

cya,

mike

Bill Glasheen · Post by **Bill Glasheen** » Mon May 20, 2002 9:14 pm

Len

I got to think about the issues you raised. Some have merit for the future.

WHERE IT WAS POSSIBLE, we went precisely by the rules. For example, one group had to start over on their prearranged kumite. The gang wanted to just fudge it in the numbers, but I insisted we go by the book. The rules stated that you judge the second attempt as it was the first, and then it gave a specific point deduction to be done by the scorekeeper. I pointed that out to the scorekeeper, and she applied it exactly as was specified by the rules.

There were also rules for both kata and sparring about deductions for someone being late to the ring (exactly how many points per minute being late).

All these specifics make the process a bit more objective. There will always be SOME subjectivity though; we cannot escape that.

You are right that Olympic events have more rigid criteria by which to score someone. Each type of flaw has a specific point deduction associated with it, although it's more of a general one (like falling on a jump) rather than a specific one (like not doing a certain technique a certain way). In gymnastics they add a "level of difficulty" factor to the score for specific routines. Should we institute that for sanchin vs. kanshiwa vs. seisan vs. sanseiryu? That's a thought. Some judges already do that in their heads; some do not. But doing so would be a first for martial arts (I think).

We could have separate scores for technical accuracy vs. performance. But be careful about how much you want to weight each of those criteria. If we weigh "performance" too heavily, next thing you know we'll be doing kata like they were doing in Richie Bap's open tournament. Did you take a look at some of that?

Eye candy! Performance for performance sake. The rules dictate the outcome - Finis origine pendet.

If we ever wanted to go to the freeform sparring format again, we could possibly do like they do in Olympic boxing. There you have two little buttons at your desk, and you hit the button for a particular competitor each time you see someone tag a person with a certain part of the glove. But a punch is a punch is a punch. Only a "referee stops contest" trumps the score.

We can make it as complex and precise as we want to make it.

BUT....

First we must make sure the officials are able to read even the simplest of rules and apply them as written. We must develop a stronger program for certification of officials, just like they have in the WKF or NASKA. From all reports, I think there is progress on that score vs. previous years (if you gage it by competitiveness vs. number of injuries), but I think there's a LOT of room for improvement.

- Bill

Post by **gmattson** » Tue May 21, 2002 12:06 am

Len:
Good points. I didn't suggest we don't try to improve the scoring mechanics, only that we don't question specific calls.

If you remember, I tried to get people involved in on-line discussions regarding the rules months before the tournament. You and a couple others showed up. Perhaps we should be working on these issues ASAP, now that they are fresh in our mind.

I'd like to put together an official's meeting on Optecs Chat later this week. Anyone interested in attending, please email me privately.

We can focus on kata judging first.

------------------
GEM

GSantaniello · Post by **GSantaniello** » Tue May 21, 2002 3:09 am

Len,

Take not this all to seriously ! As you know, in the past i myself had competed often in tournaments. I had experienced the joy of victory and the dissapointment of defeat. Just as many others have.

Having not seen your kata performance at the tournament, i can not comment as to it's quality. However, for some, putting everything into "Power" can take away from other elements within kata. Be not to quick to beleive that the judges were being unfair i their evaluations of the competition.

I respect your commitment to T.C. however, this is not about T.C. vs. other. Possibly Van can give you some insight as to what you may have lacked ?

If you are content that your performance was "peak" and that it was the very best you could have done, so be it !

Win, lose or draw. We all been there. What did you lose ? A trophy ? A numerical position based on three peoples opinion of your performance ? Winning is good, but it's not everything.

Also note: performance in a different surrounding bein judged by others is not the same as "demonstrating" at the dojo !
There is psychological pressure that effects us all.

Don't worry about it.

Respectfully,

------------------

Gary S.

Bill Glasheen · Post by **Bill Glasheen** » Tue May 21, 2002 5:09 am

I want to apologize for unnecessarily bringing LEN into this discussion. He started in generalities, and didn't want to be the topic of discussion. My bad.

Len and I are passing pictures back and forth of his kata. SOMEBODY is a GREAT photographer!!!

Yes, his kata is a thing of beauty and power. However we found a picture that captured something we were discussing after it was all over. I'm hoping Len will share it and explain it.

- Bill

Post by **gmattson** » Tue May 21, 2002 5:35 am

Bill:

I can appreciate your trying to critique the official's calls here, however, from experience I can state this is a bad idea.

At best, officiating is a thankless task.

When the scores or points have been issued, competitors should accept them in the spirit given.

Officials should work together during the year to perfect their roles as judges.

------------------
GEM

BrandonBlake · Post by **BrandonBlake** » Tue May 21, 2002 6:24 am

I really hate to post my first reply to this forum on a bad note, but I feel as though I have to.

After participating in this years tournament, I have one question? Is this tournament coming to an end? I have participated in this tournament for the past three years and have noticed a dramatic decline in participants and how the tournament was run(no offense to Mattson sensei.) Let's start out with the obvious:

In the past years, there have been 5 judges for each ring for kate and dan/kyu kumite events. This year only three. I think that there should be a set standard for performing kata. While I may be quite young(over 12 years of study)in the eyes of most of the pioneers of Uechi-Ryu. I do know good technique from bad technique. While my kata still leaves a lot to be desired(as it always will), I noticed alot of things that were wrong in most of the kata that I saw on all levels. While how you do kata depends on who and where you learned your kata, the basics are still the same. I noticed that people were getting high scores even though they were not doing the basics correctly, ie. improper sanchin stance, improper sanchin stepping, no jumping back in seisan, etc. the list could go on. How could a person get high scores on a kata when the basics were not done correctly? Isn't this the "soul" of the kata? Does not everything in Uechi-Ryu begin and end with Sanchin? If not, please tell me so I can tell my sensei and we can change they way that he and I are teaching it here in Philadelphia. Everyone says that kata should not look robotic, but when it is not done like a robot they say it is too soft and there is not enough focus. When will this problem be fixed?

For kumite, outside judges were brought in. This year they were not. After competing with these judges in the past, I was used to a certain amount of give and take that was allowed by them. Technique was the top priority, not whether or not someone got touched by someone else. This was not the case this year. Light contact had a whole different definition last year. Of course someone's head is going to jerk away if they get hit wether or not it is done lightly or not. One of the competitors got knocked out with a kick to the head last year and his opponent did not get disqualified. We are Uechi-Ryu black belts. Does that not mean anything anymore? The way we spar is suppose to be completly different than anyone else. We train to withstand hits. Why else do we condition our bodies? Why is it that the the kumite we do in dan tests much better that in an all Uechi-Ryu tournament?

After this years tournament, I can honestly say that I don't think that I will be coming back until a set standard of rules is set. Not WKF rules. Uechi-Ryu Tournament rules. Is it not our tournament in the first place.

LenTesta · Post by **LenTesta** » Tue May 21, 2002 2:51 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>In gymnastics they add a "level of difficulty" factor to the score for specific routines. Should we institute that for sanchin vs. kanshiwa vs. seisan vs. sanseiryu? That's a thought. Some judges already do that in their heads; some do not. But doing so would be a first for martial arts (I think).

We could have separate scores for technical accuracy vs. performance. But be careful about how much you want to weight each of those criteria.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I would assume that if we instituted judging rules along the same lines as the Olympic contests we will reduce the prejudice of the judges substantially. Let’s face the facts here. Some judges want to see more accuracy in a form and will score a powerfully performed kata as being inaccurate. There are some on record as not being an advocate of the power principle reducing the accuracy of the movements. The bias that these judges bring to the event strictly eliminates many competitors because they feel that they have to modify their training to suit the judges. It should not be necessary for a contestant to watch every competitor’s performance in every division to find out how the judges will score them, and then modify their performance to fit the judge’s bias.

One way of increasing the chances for more competitive competition would be as follows, by having a set of rules that state:

Judging of kata should be scored as such.
Instead of adding weight to a criteria, judges should deduct for failure to add this criteria.
Every contestant starts out with a 10.00 score and judges deduct for each mistake in

1. Accuracy----Deductions of .01 for each occurring incident
2. Performance---Deduction of .01 to .05 for failure to perform with spirit.
3. Tempo---.Deduction of .01 - .05 for failure to change tempo (Pauses, transition rates and movement speed changes)
4. Balance—Deductions of .01 for each incident of contestant losing balance.
5. Posture---Deductions of .01 for each incident of inaccurate posture.
6. Power---Deduction of .01 to .05 for lack of sufficient power.
7. Speed---Deduction of .01 to .05 for failure to show speed of movements and transitions.

Note .01 is just an example. It could be .02 or higher depending on whether or not the score will be reduced enough to reflect the mistakes properly in the final outcome of the score.

Judges will be given scorecards with each of these criteria in columns, they can make check marks in each column for each deduction so that they will not have to keep score deductions on their fingers. It is possible that a judge may miss a few techniques while marking the scorecard as the contestant is performing. If this becomes a problem a better way would be to deduct in a shorthand method on a plain piece of paper.

It could be as simple as judging a kata as a formular with deductions entered. Judging of two kata could look like this:
An accurately performed Kanchin Kata with no power, speed, and performance might be judged as such
A no deductions
Pe -5
T -5
B no deductions
Po no deductions
Pw -4
S –4
Deductions of .04 for power and speed take in some account that contestant must have some of these traits considering form was executed properly. However no extra effort was demonstrated.
Score 10 minus .18 equals 9.82

A powerful performance of Seisan Kata with sprit could be judged as follows
A -1 -1 -1
Pe no deductions
T -1
B -1
Po -1 -1
Pw no deductions
S no deductions
Deductions of each occurrence of failure were noted by judge. 3 Times the contestant was inaccurate in the technique. Once the tempo was suspect. Once occurance of failure to maintain balance. In two techniques the Posture was suspect.
Score 10 minus .7 equals 9.93

The score would be given to the scorekeeper who would then add a factor of degree of difficulty to the score. The degree of difficulty could be as such:

Degree of difficulty.
Sanchin------.94
Kanshiwa----.95
Kanshu-------.96
Seichin--------.97
Seisan---------.98
Seirui----------.985
Kanchin-------.99
Sanserui-------1.0

1st contestant 9.82 times .99 equals 9.7218
2nd contestant 9.93 times .98 equals 9.7314

By keeping the degree of difficulty close it would mean that a contestant who performed and executed a powerful and spirited Seisan kata can marginally beat a contestant who performed an accurate but blasé Kanchin.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
How does any of the other of the contestants, who competed in this past tournament, feel about this criteria for judging? Do you feel that if the judges had scored your form in this fashion, your results would have been different?

---------------------------------------------------
Sensei Mattson: I brought these things up before when we discussed the judging of kata. I have always used this system when I judge at Raffi’s tourney or when I am judging our dojo championship tourney at the BUKA. Mike Murphy does the same when he scores however I am not sure if uses the deduction method that I have shown above.
I train my students to perform their katas with power, speed, spirit and accuracy but not be 100% concerned with accuracy. As we all are aware, when executing these techniques for real in self defense situations, accuracy alone will not be enough. Why have them perform as such for a tournament.
Under testing conditions for rank however, I feel that the kyu levels should be as accurate as possible sacrificing power, speed, and performance. But that is better left for another topic of discussion.

I will gladly contribute to a tribunal for discussion of these rules. By doing so it may help to get more competitors to attend these tournaments. By being fair in judging and eliminating prejudices, more contestants will feel that they have a chance to be fairly judged.

------------------
Len

[This message has been edited by LenTesta (edited May 21, 2002).]

LenTesta · Post by **LenTesta** » Tue May 21, 2002 3:23 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by GSantaniello:
Len,

Having not seen your kata performance at the tournament, i can not comment as to it's quality. However, for some, putting everything into "Power" can take away from other elements within kata. Be not to quick to beleive that the judges were being unfair i their evaluations of the competition.

 I did not perform my kata with strickly TC power ONLY. I used kia frequently (no other contestant used a kia) and maintained a balanced tempo pausing at tecniques where I wanted to demonstrate balance. I was in essence PERFORMING for an audience as well as competeing for the right to be the best in the show!

I respect your commitment to T.C. however, this is not about T.C. vs. other. Possibly Van can give you some insight as to what you may have lacked ?
 Lacked??? He gave no such comments to me! Possibly a mistake that has been noted was posture. Some times I was leaning more forward with my upper body than I should have been. When I started my karate training back in 1980 I used to walk with my shoulders bent forward due to curvature of the spine. My Uechi-ryu training with sanchin did A LOT to help correct this over the 22 years that I have been training. However, when I get fatigued, I sometimes revert back to my old posture. I was keeping myself warm on the sidelines practicing what I intended to demonstrate and may have gomne a little overboard and became slightly fatigued. I usually do not make that posture mistake that noticible.

If you are content that your performance was "peak" and that it was the very best you could have done, so be it !
 I was content. Many others commented favorably on my performance. 

Also note: performance in a different surrounding bein judged by others is not the same as "demonstrating" at the dojo !
There is psychological pressure that effects us all.
 Demonstating is the key word here. I was demonstrating, to the WORLD, what pushing yourself to the limit can look like. Do you think that under the stress of a self defense situation your opponent will not push you to the limit of your control? Why not show that in an atmosphere conducive to performance. Kata performed under testing conditions should be demonstrated at a promotional. 

Don't worry about it.
 I did not fail to sleep that night. Or any night. 

Respectfully,

 Thanks for the encouragement. 

[/B]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

------------------
Len

Bill Glasheen · Post by **Bill Glasheen** » Tue May 21, 2002 4:09 pm

Brandon

I really enjoyed talking with you at the tournament. I am glad you posted, and spoke your mind. Keep it up; the organization needs passionate people as yourself.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote

In the past years, there have been 5 judges for each ring for kate and dan/kyu kumite events. This year only three. I think that there should be a set standard for performing kata.

Yup! Have to agree with you there.

Hey if we are going to offend people, Brandon, let's REALLY go for it!

What's been the problem in the past? Well the problem is that you get a bunch of "seniors" that show up and presume they are qualified to judge in the various rings without having read the rules. George gets mad at them when they don't follow the rules and the seniors blow him off because they presume they know what is best for Uechi. The participants and the parents who read the rules get angry because they came in wanting to abide by that written contract, and it was ignored by thugs that presume to follow some higher calling that nobody can figure out and consensus never approved. Then when something bad happens and the victim brings their lawyer, the thugs will vanish and folks like George will be left with the legal bills.

Solution - Read the rules next year, Brandon, and make yourself available. If you don't like the rules, get online and do something about it BEFORE the tournament starts. We need you. We need people with an attitude like yours. We need people with a thick skin and a passion for what is right for the organization. We need people that can work with others and be part of a team. We need people that honor consensus.

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While I may be quite young(over 12 years of study)in the eyes of most of the pioneers of Uechi-Ryu. I do know good technique from bad technique. While my kata still leaves a lot to be desired(as it always will), I noticed alot of things that were wrong in most of the kata that I saw on all levels. While how you do kata depends on who and where you learned your kata, the basics are still the same. I noticed that people were getting high scores even though they were not doing the basics correctly, ie. improper sanchin stance, improper sanchin stepping, no jumping back in seisan, etc. the list could go on. How could a person get high scores on a kata when the basics were not done correctly?

Thank you, Brandon. I agree. A lot was lacking. But then we must remember that these folks stepped into an unfamiliar arena and performed with dozens of scrutinizing individuals in front of them. Stress has a way of making people shorten their movements, raise their center of gravity, and regress to mistakes that their respective instructors worked on years ago.

And we must remember that some competitiors felt that accuracy and precision could be sacrified in the name of power. (Note: I happen to be one of those folks that wants it all.) So inevitably we get into "stylistic differences" here. What you consider extremely important is something that the next practitioner considers superficial. Unique preferences are the reason why some folks will buy SUVs, while others will buy cars that drive extremely low to the ground. Each will go on and on about why the other individual's car *****. Truth be told, Brandon, something you consider extremely important today may be something you consider not as important tomorrow, or perhaps a misguided preoccupation with the superficial aspect of an even more important fundamental concept. And something you consider important today - because you can do it - will be something you will not care for 20 years from now when your body dictates other options. So your "tastes" will mature with age.

Imagine the dillema the judge faces! Read your post, and then read Lenny's posts. He may be blind to things you think are vital, and vice versa. One driver may be concerned about driving well in the snow or surviving an impact with a truck, and the next driver may want to take fast turns with high lateral G forces or survive an avoidance maneuver at high speeds. Each may think the other impractical. Each will want to challenge the next in a duel, with the conditions specified by them.

In the end, style does count. In the end, the individual must make choices. In the end, that individual must show that they have maximized their possibilities, given their choices and options. This is what the judge must read and score.

But you and Lenny are both right in demanding more of yourselves and your peers. Somewhere there is a balance. We must demand excellence of each other, and yet we must be tolerant of differences of choice, abilities, and preferences.

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If not, please tell me so I can tell my sensei and we can change they way that he and I are teaching it here in Philadelphia. Everyone says that kata should not look robotic, but when it is not done like a robot they say it is too soft and there is not enough focus. When will this problem be fixed?

Don't be influenced by fads. Don't listen only to those that speak the loudest. Follow your heart while keeping an open mind and open eyes. Strive for what you perceive to be excellence, and demonstrate it for others to see. Make yourselves the walking personification of your Platonic ideal. Be a leader by executing and doing and continuing to perform in public events. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote

Of course someone's head is going to jerk away if they get hit wether or not it is done lightly or not. One of the competitors got knocked out with a kick to the head last year and his opponent did not get disqualified. We are Uechi-Ryu black belts. Does that not mean anything anymore? The way we spar is suppose to be completly different than anyone else. We train to withstand hits. Why else do we condition our bodies?

We condition our bodies for hard hits, but we do not condition our heads. You cannot condition your head for a hit. All you can do is learn to block, learn to roll with the punch, and learn to hit first. The consequence of getting hit in the head hard enough to make it snap back or even get knocked out are more serious than you think. Take Muhammed Ali as an example. The only reason to subject yourself to that type of punishment is if someone is paying you lots of money to do so. Otherwise it's stupid to do so (or you will eventually be made stupid by the effects of trauma).

WITH THAT IN MIND, read the rules. Light contact was allowed to the head, and more significant contact was allowed to the body. One competitor knocked his opponent out of the ring with a body kick and I didn't penalize him. No harm, no foul. Harm someone or do something that creates the potential for harm and the hammer falls.

The other issue here is the inevitable "escalation" that happens when rules aren't enforced and/or techniques aren't respected. A classic example is when I throw a punch to your head and you continue to walk forward and blast me because you think you can take it. Oh yea?? Next time, BOOM!!! Then everyone is upset at everyone else.... We are judging people for the harm they could do, and not for the harm that they have caused. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote

Why is it that the the kumite we do in dan tests much better that in an all Uechi-Ryu tournament?

The dan tests are a "cooperative" environment. As long as we both look good, we both get a promotion. Read the April Black Belt article with Tony Blauer. Cooperative fighting models are artificial. In the tournament, it's me or you, and I only get one chance. It's my job to make you look bad, and my opponent's job to do the same to me. The result may not be pretty.

And guess what? It's even less pretty on the street. If ever you get into a violent confrontation with 3 capable thugs, you are in for a shock. You will wonder what happened to all that karate training. But don't worry - you will appreciate where to go in that environment with time and maturity of practice and understanding.

Keep your restless, demanding, perfectionist, questioning attitude, Brandon, but don't quit and don't stay on the outside looking in. You remind me of someone I know.

I see great potential.

- Bill