Best "empty energy demo yet!!

Post by **gmattson** » Sat Jul 06, 2002 6:02 pm

OK all you "unbelievers"... check out this rather massive video clip by someone who seems to have mastered the ultimate in no-touch control! Vladimir Vasiliev teaches "Systema" or Russian martial art in Toronto. His teacher, Mikhail Ryabko, gave a seminar last year.
Go to http://hamiltonsystema.bserv.com/mikhailsergei.mpg

[This message has been edited by gmattson (edited July 06, 2002).]

Greg · Post by **Greg** » Sat Jul 06, 2002 7:02 pm

Only one thing I can say in response: What a load of crap! If something like this were truly working, uke should at least be falling in the right direction. The stuff here bears some small resemblance to what are sometimes termed minimal motion throws, which can appear 'magical' when done well, but do in fact depend on the 'same old' physics and body mechanics that any effective throw uses with the addition of some 'misdirection' of uke.

greg

TSDguy · Post by **TSDguy** » Sat Jul 06, 2002 8:05 pm

The guy in the camo was manhandling himself so much he kept almost accidently kicking the witch doctor in the head.

Bill Glasheen · Post by **Bill Glasheen** » Mon Jul 08, 2002 5:55 am

Thank you for this segue, George.

Greg and TSDguy

You took the words right out of my mouth.

I've been teaching falling techniques for years, and have worked now with thousands of students over the years. The eyes get used to what is real, and what is forced. CammoGuy is working really hard here.

On another thread, someone was talking about aikido classes where the ukes hurl themselves into the throw, and otherwise do bad attacking techniques. I'm glad I studied in a class where all the other participants had karate dans. At least they knew how to hit (most aikidoka that haven't studied karate don't) and they don't go down unless challenged. Anyhow, this takes it to a ridiculous extreme.

I'm going to take some flack for this but...won't be new. Want to know why some of us pick on certain martial artists? (No names mentioned, of course...

). Well as soon as someone starts passing off crap like this, it's time for the martial arts community to step in and ask them to clean house. Otherwise it devalues what the rest of us work so hard to learn, teach, research, and pass on. And consumers should be protected from this.

- Bill

Vladimir · Post by **Vladimir** » Mon Jul 08, 2002 2:02 pm

Wow, this is great! Imagine, no conditioning needed, no kicks no punches...

I really don't know what to say to this, except, please remember that not all Vladimir's are the same

and that Russian circus has always been considered one of the best in the world.

Vladimir

Bill Glasheen · Post by **Bill Glasheen** » Mon Jul 08, 2002 2:27 pm

Anyone that does prearranged kumite with Fidele is working with the real thing.

- Bill

Ray Berry · Post by **Ray Berry** » Mon Jul 08, 2002 3:39 pm

I really think that most of us could duplicate this high-level stuff by not bathing for three weeks. I am certain I sense some force coming from under his arm..."stinkydo" in more ways than one.

jellyman · Post by **jellyman** » Tue Jul 09, 2002 1:20 pm

Okay, I don't know what 'empty energy' is, therefor I don't have an opinion. But I DO have an opinion on systema.

This is a demo on evasive movement. You're right, the rolling guy is working hard. He is showing his skill at evasion. He is not supposed to be falling, but avoiding. You may wish to consider how easy it is to hit a man who moves like that. You don't HAVE to evade. You can stay put or attack if you like. But be advised that if you choose to do so, there may be very physical ramifications. As I said on my site, gentlemen, this is high level stuff. If you don't see the threat in the movements, you are not at a high enough level to appreciate this work. That clip is for more advanced students to oooh and aaah over.

Mikhail Ryabko himself (the standing man) on the tape 'Beyond the Physical' explains the whole thing. There is no magic. There are no fairies. There is only the mind, our bodies, and what they have both been conditioned to do. If you walk through the woods behind someone, and you see a branch snapping back toward you eyes, what do you do? Do you stand there, rooted to the spot, or move? Same thing, gentlemen, same thing. Unless of course, you don't care about your eyes... In which case, you'll get a branch in the eye.

peace

john elliott

aka jellyman
http://russianmartialart.org/forum/phpBB/
http://communities.msn.ca/RMAHamilton/_whatsnew.msnw

aka poobear
www.mma.tv

BTW, this guy lives in Russia (I taped the clip in Russia) but does make it to the Western Hemisphere every so often. He will happily demonstrate on anyone who asks. And often has.

I would suggest you forget whatever Asian mythology you grew up with when viewing systema work. They do not really figure into the systema paradigm, which is russian, and not even asian, after all.

Also, if you look at my site, I make it quite clear that there is nothing unusual going on. No magic.

oh yes, and nothing is prearranged.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote

The guy in the camo was manhandling himself so much he kept almost accidently kicking the witch doctor in the head.

That is no accident. Dudes have been ko'd in our club that way.

[This message has been edited by jellyman (edited July 09, 2002).]

Traveler in the Arts · Tue Jul 09, 2002 2:38 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by jellyman:
Okay, I don't know what 'empty energy' is, therefor I don't have an opinion. But I DO have an opinion on systema.

This is a demo on evasive movement. You're right, the rolling guy is working hard. He is showing his skill at evasion. He is not supposed to be falling, but avoiding.

[snip]

peace

john elliott

aka jellyman
http://russianmartialart.org/forum/phpBB/
http://communities.msn.ca/RMAHamilton/_whatsnew.msnw
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks for posting the explanation and links. When I downloaded and viewed the demo there was no sound, however my impression was as you say that it was a demo on evasion and recovery with impressive stamina and training evidenced by the evader.

Since there was no audio, I couldn't hear a description of what was going on. I tried to find links to your site but was unsuccessful.

Thanks,
John

jellyman · Post by **jellyman** » Tue Jul 09, 2002 3:01 pm

This is my site:
http://communities.msn.ca/RMAHamilton/home.htm

The reason I have no audio is because it made the file even bigger than it is (28MB), and I'm not so good with compressing these things. Space costs money, and I've only 50MB to play with

This is footage from the 2001 trip to Moscow, which I went on. The footage will be commercially released at some point in the future, albeit from a different camera angle (ie not my camera). At that time, you'll hear the explanation in the original russian and through an interpreter.

If you go to my site, you'll see some photos from the trip. We spent some time on a spetsnaz base as well (those guys are spetsnaz), the photos are mostly from there.

[This message has been edited by jellyman (edited July 09, 2002).]

Bill Glasheen · Post by **Bill Glasheen** » Tue Jul 09, 2002 3:12 pm

As I wrote... <BLOCKQUOTE>quote

The eyes get used to what is real, and what is forced. CammoGuy is working really hard here.

Then jellyman wrote..

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>I don't know what 'empty energy' is, therefor I don't have an opinion. But I DO have an opinion on systema.
This is a demo on evasive movement. You're right, the rolling guy is working hard.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Well at least when I clean the egg off my face, I can say that I was right.

Thank you for the explanation. Sorry...we're a bit punch drunk around here with some of the empty energy stuff. If this has nothing to do with that, and instead is advanced ukemi, then I understand and appreciate the demo.

- Bill

jellyman · Post by **jellyman** » Tue Jul 09, 2002 3:30 pm

Hey, anyone can make a mistake. It takes a real adult to admit it. Gotta respect that.

TSDguy · Post by **TSDguy** » Tue Jul 09, 2002 7:09 pm

Ha. If I show you a picture of an icecream cone on the ground and then a picture of a child crying you will have very different reaction if I show you a picture of Bosnia and then a picture of a child crying. We got into the empty force way of thinking.

Well, the repsonse from jellyman explains why I thought it looked so much like capoeria.

jellyathome · Post by **jellyathome** » Tue Jul 09, 2002 10:09 pm

Like a cafeine addled dolt, I registered with my work addy, and forgot the password.

I'd just realized that you guys may have seen only this clip. I have some others on my homepage, although they are a bit smaller. Have a look, you might like it.
http://communities.msn.ca/RMAHamilton/_whatsnew.msnw