What is expected of us?

[Bill Glasheen]

Some folks spend lots of time with the "martial masterbation." Me? I guess I love the power thing like the next person, but my reality is what it is. I'm (still) married , kids, respectable job, educated, and...I teach martial arts. I've been teaching since 1978. I don't advertise it. I go out of my way NOT to look like I do (other than being extremely fit for my age). But there is that part of my life.

A few among us are "professionals." In other words, they are prison guards or law enforcement officers or soldiers. But that's a VERY FEW.

A number of things get me to thinking about what kind of person I must be as a martial artist. You know what makes me think that? Here are a few things.

* Now and then I see a martial artist do something stupid like assault an officer of the law.

* Now and then one or more persons on these various forums makes a complete a*ss of themselves. I do not use that term lightly. It's actually tame here. On various other martial forums, it seems that threatening people (directly or indrectly) is commonplace. It's so common that I don't take it seriously anymore when it comes my way. There are other types of behavior that are almost as reprehensible.

* On more than one occasion in my life, I've had a female in a relationship go "loco" on me. I've noticed a rather odd double standard in this world. It seems it's OK (in the eyes of some) for a female to physically assault a male - ESPECIALLY if he is capable - but heaven forbid that a male do the same. It is absolutely, positively paralyzing and - yes - terrifying. If you aren't a civilized human and/or you've never had it happen to you, you just wouldn't understand...

Yes, some of you folks stay up late at night worrying if you'll measure up if the bad guy faces you the next day. Me? I probably spend more time wondering what is expected of me - an experienced martial artist in the eyes of the community - in a civilized society.

Given the statistics I've read about the "professionals" among us (e.g. spousal abuse among officers or members in the military), I'm thinking that they too SHOULD worry about such things. And I assume branches of the service worry about the behavior of members of the armed services in society, and how that reflects on them.

So, should I turn in my license to be a guy because I worry about this stuff? **** it!

- Bill

[david]

So, should I turn in my license to be a guy because I worry about this stuff? **** it!

Naw! But you certainly ain't no hard core, bad a$$, mo fo, kill-you-with-one-strike martial artist. No young groupies for you!

The truth of it is that there is so many parallels to this in other pursuits and endeavors. Human nature being what it is. My new interest -- kayaking -- also seems to have it's share of folks with claims to being the baddest paddlers, challenging hairy conditions, logging on mucho miles, tempting sea and fate, etc, etc... Those who wont'/don't do the same, don't measure up and are just "pretenders." Of course, we lost several of them to the sea this season. And, the beat goes on...

"What's expected of us (by the other)?" You don't have to care really. It's what you expect of yourself and whether you're meeting those expectations. Forget the macho dudes, the lotus eaters, the PC folks and whatever else. Live your life with integrity by doing the best you can in accordance with your OWN convictions.

There are times and endeavors where one has to "fit in." Martial arts is just not one of those times/endeavors for me. Not for a long time now... Anyone want my black belt? It still looks brand new.

david

[KerryM]

Hey I like the way david thinks- a lot!!!

Mr. G Sensei- if a woman is hitting you- f$#@ing defend yourself and if it hurts her- she f#$%%ing asked for it.

A "real" woman won't physically or verbally hurt you intentionaly- angry or not- if she loves you- and everyone deserves someone who loves them- a real woman won't use their emotional outburt's as a weapon of mass destruction.

Women should have aboslutely no more excuse than a man when it comes to abuse. I feel sorry for the man I see in movies or TV who sits there and "let's" some stupid over-emotional-irrational-violent woman beat on him, and not even try to protect himself-because it's a woman whose is trying to hurt him-

The same holds true for a man who tries to hit a woman- WOMEN out there- DO NOT EVER TAKE IT FOR ANY REASON NONE! NONE! NONE- not your f-ing church- not your (bad word) friends not your (bad word) GUILT either. Even when there is a "medical" explanation that is suppose to "excuse" it or at least "explain" it- DON'T TAKE IT- because as soon as you do- you're done

If you men out there are in a relationship with some woman that thinks she can get all mad and slap at you- but you can't protect yourself-? Do BETTER for yourself and get RID of her- having someone around is not worth it- better to be alone.

I completely realize I'm not telling you, Mr. G Sensei anything you don't already know- or any of the seniors in here-

I say this for the "passers-by" who happen to take a peek in here and see a WOMAN saying to the men surrounding her- don't put up with 'dat chit- from anyone no matter who or what gender.

not ever

as for what is expected of "us" as martial artists- I'll have to come back to it cause I went off on a tangent lol- got all "emotional" LMAO

no

we are expected to "know" better than most- the physical and emotional repercussions, of abuse in any form, and have a slightly better idea at how to handle and deal with, AND to "try" our best to "do that", for ourselves and for those who can't "for" themselves.

IMHO

K

*sigh I feel better now * lol

[M. Kelly]

Hello,
Interesting thread. Here are my humble thoughts.
It is interesting that those who worry the most about self-defense are usually the same individuals who have never been in a real life-threatening encounter. Conversely, those who have used their skills in actual combat are usually much less concerned about self-defense. This is a problem because in a civilized society, we cannot go around fighting until we feel confident. The answer lies in the student’s heart and a good teacher is expected to help them find it.

I agree with David that the most important expectations are what you expect of yourself. However, I think it is important to consider what is expected by one’s society, family, friends, and employment. How can one gauge self-expectations with no comparison? A person can only make a lucid decision about self expectations when he or she considers the expectations of others in combination with his/her self-expectations. Without a comparison, self-expectations tend to be self-centered and egocentric. On more than one occasion, I have had to reconsider my own expectations when confronted by the expectations of my loved ones.

Dr Glassheen, interesting that more than one female has gone loco on you. Bad luck, bad choices, or both? (Just teasing) I agree that females should be held to the same standards of accountability when it comes to assault. However, I think this should include verbal assault as well.

[KerryM]

M Kelly- YEAH!

*further note...* it's a lot harder to come back from being physically OR emotionally abused/hurt- then it is to attempt to prevent it in the first place. On all levels- emotional and physical, spiritual as well. IMHO

Your post on expectations is good and speaks so much truth- for me the key is to properly "express" my expectations, without "imposing" upon anyone else- and I referr to verbal arguements as well- for in an "arguement" it is usually your own expectations- for what the other person should be doing- unrealized- which In my opinion starts the whole "thing". I feel it's important to "check" those expectations of yourself and others- before "starting" anything- as well as the key to "understanding" "whatever" might be started.

know what I mean?

[RA Miller]

I don't really have anything to add except to express my thanks.

I'm one of the jail guards for whom the things expressed on Van's forums are more than academic questions or martial masturbation.

At the same time, Like Dr. Glasheen I'm (still) married, etc....

Part of maintaining balance is not only keeping friends from outside the criminal /LEO world but reminding myself, every day, that they are the ones who live in the Real World. Not me. Does a coal miner convince himself that the world is made of dark tunnels? LEOs fall into this trap every day.

So thank you Bill for reminding me that there are bigger questions in the Real World worth exploring. I need that occassionally.

Rory

[Ted Dinwiddie]

When I was younger and a full-time ski instructor, I wanted the world to know. My whole identity was based on being good at sliding fast down snowy mountains. I was always a little taken aback by the total disinterest of my friends who had real jobs and didn't ski. Looking back, I laugh about the myopia and try to humor my friends who are still engaged in it.

The interesting part, to me, is that my Martial Arts activity preceded, existed simultaneously with, and continued since that part of my life. MA never was the crux of my self image. Since that time, I finally reached shodan, the first step. A point at which one can finally consider themselves a martial artist, according to what I was taught at the very beginning. So now I feel a responsibility to my teachers (all of them), my ukes, my juniors, and even the world at large to try and conduct myself in the proper manner. What the heck is that supposed to be?

I train and study and think so that time with my teachers and ukes can be productive. I try to share the lessons of my journey thus far to my juniors. And to the world at large I try to be gentle and respectful and reliable. I try to stand against injustices as I see them and watch out for those that are "weaker." I do not tolerate bullying. I was bullyed as a kid and I will NOT be bullied and I WILL intervene when I see it. A bully may be able to kick my butt, but he's gonna have to prove it.

This certainly is not to imply that I know best or that I am not weak or incompetent. I just want to TRY to be part of the solution and not the problem. To the world at large I try not to indicate my MA activities, nor do I deny them. Inevitably, someone who knows me has told someone they know that I am a "black belt" and everybody, it seems, has some vision of what that is supposed to mean. I try to dispel that ignorance by the way I conduct myself and by freely and truthfully answering questions when people ask them, though in a deflecting manner. I try to think in defensive ways. I try to reduce vulnerablities to threats of which I am aware, including trying to prepare myself mentally (though that is problematic). And I try to increase my awareness of potential threats.

I try to avoid the ego-based myopia of my youth and balance multiple priorities with the center being my family. Everything must come back to that.

Regarding assaults by women on men: that's a no-win situation in some ways, but no one should have the right to attack you without you defending yourself. I dated a girl once who told me that she would not hesitate to slap me if she got mad. I told her that I would definitely hit her back and not with a slap, but that I would NEVER hit her first. If she wanted to reduce a situation to a physical confrontation she was going to have to realize what that meant. The subject never came up again.

I have explained this to my daughters (and son) as well. Of course, I am also "explainng" a few other aspects of physical conflict...

My hope these days is that I will be able to make use of more defensive, deflective, and control-type techniques should the situation arise. Legally, a man is at a severe disadvantage to a woman in a physical fight.

[Bill Glasheen]

Mr. G Sensei- if a woman is hitting you- f$#@ing defend yourself and if it hurts her- she f#$%%ing asked for it.

That's a thought...

Legally, a man is at a severe disadvantage to a woman in a physical fight.

That's the reality.

True story number 1:

A pregnant woman - in a fit of hormonal rage, kicks her husband in the family jewels. The husband grabs the woman and holds her in a whole-body lock until she calms down. Later the incident is related to a family counselor. The counselor - after having heard the whole story - tells the man that he basically has committed assault by restraining her.

True story number 2:

A female martial arts student of mine talks to me about boyfriend issues. She tells me how she slapped her boyfriend around a bit when she got angry with him. I told her I thought this wasn't very wise, and she replied that it's OK for a woman to do that to a man. Needless to say, I disagreed with her, but I never felt like the point sank in during our conversation.

Where do women get that idea? Well if you look at movies, you will see it happening. We are not shocked (or shouldn't be shocked I guess) when a woman commits various levels of assault on a man. But there is a visceral reaction (intended to be so) when the reverse happens.

Why would I care? I'm man enough to take it, right?

It's not the harm to me that I care about. It's not even the loss of dignity. It's the awakening of the beast within. The few times I have been sucker-punched in my life, I have responded without thought. I marveled for days at what "he" did totally outside my conscious level. I believe that beast is within all of us - a vestigial animal selected for in our DNA that made a few of us survive surprise attacks.

That beast also wells up - although not quite as quickly - whenever I see someone else being taken advantage of, or in the past when I would be at a nightclub and someone would grab my date in the rear.

I HATE THAT BEAST!!!!! He eats you alive from the inside out unless/until you satisfy him with violence. When sucker-punched, he acts without permission. I hate him so much that I never go to nightclubs now. I'd rather not awaken him.

Am I alone with this beast within? I've heard a few speak of it. I had a conversation with Jim Malone one time about this, and he called it "a gift." Maybe... I guess it depends on your line of work. I remember reading an interview of Bruce Lee once where he spoke of his self-defense response in terms of a second person.

It's terrifying to think you would hurt someone you care for.

True story number three

A martial artist is being assaulted by his spouse. It starts with mustard (from a squeeze bottle) down the back. Then it's repeated rounds of spitting. He is cornered with two kitchen items that happen to be occupying both his hands. He instinctively raises his leg and pushes her off of him. She goes to the phone to call 911 to "spook him," but hangs up because she really didn't intend to. But...they do get your number there if it connects, and they WILL come by even if someone hangs up - as they should.

Police come, and separate the two. Wife tells a lie... 'It's all a mistake officer because you see my husband came in and I thought he was a burglar and so I dialed 911 but then found out it was just my husband...' Meanwhile, husband is smart enough to - get this - tell the truth. Fortunately he still has mustard on his shirt and his hair is a little sticky from what's left of human phlegm.

And so what happens? The one officer tells the man that he needs to be careful because THEY were able to figure out what happened...but not every group of officers would be able to do that. Assumptions are often made, and the guy usually goes off in the paddywagon.

Ted got it right in terms of the double standard. I personally don't think there's much of a solution (for a civilized person like myself) beyond getting out if the female partner isn't convinced of the gravity of the situation.

interesting that more than one female has gone loco on you. Bad luck, bad choices, or both? (Just teasing)

Good questions. People often speak the truth through humor... Such things should be considered by anyone in such a situation. There are after all two people in such scenarios. Any smart person asked to intervene should ask such tough questions. The verbal piece in particular is key. Perhaps much of that starts with a VSD/verbal assault issue.

Very interesting responses from a handful of people that have tremendous insight on these situations.

- Bill

[Mary S]

"Where do women get that idea?"

Please don't generalize. We women don't all think that way.

Also....some of us (me) are scared to death of releasing the "beast". Not so much for myself but for what I would be capable of doing to another person. I go out of my way to avoid confrontation most of the time simply because of the consequences.

I have experienced the "beast" only once in my life - ended up punching an old hot-water radiator so hard that I made it wobble - and ending up that I couldn't use my hand for about 3 weeks. The fear of doing that to a person and not being able to stop makes me keep the "beast" caged.

I think defending yourself/loved one/whoever doesn't necessarily mean releasing the beast. I equate the beast with blind rage.

[Tom Faigle]

Glasheeen Sensi,

I've mentioned before my fight with the Mass legal system. For those that aren't familar with it the summary is that my ex-wife (who is very mentally ill and now commited in a Mass mental institution) went off the deep end after my son was born. She took our new baby away, then came back and filed all sorts of motions in Virginia, abuse etc. After 4 years of getting everything thrown out, and losing custody, she ran to Mass. There she tried the same thing. When I went to get my son with a Federal order I was assualted by friends of her who were local cops. I was charged with assualt, then later the charge was changed to assualt with a deadly weapon (a fence). Another $15k and another year and I got it all thrown out. But the story was really bad in Mass the attitude was "we have to protect women....."
After all of this, it was still hard to get a protective order against her when she threatened to kill me. This from a woman who was a federal agent and owned several guns and knows how to use them EXTREMELY well.

As I've recovered from the ordel I've learned a great deal about the legal system, life, and how things really are. Part of the problem is that there are many males (I won't call them men because they're not) who abuse women. When a big strong man attacks a woman we all picture the black and blue bruises, missing teeth, broken bones, and all of the other things that cause knee jerk reactions. These images make it easy to get money and lobbying for tough laws. These guys deserve to go to jail, and for a long time. The problem is that there are groups who don't want you to know that many men get abused also. But since most women who are abusive don't inflict that sort of damage on a man, the problem is hidden. Couple this with our egos and not wanting to admit that a woman who slaps us, pushes us etc is commiting abuse, and the problem is hidden. Then you add a man who goes to defend himself by grabbing a woman, and leaves a mark on her because he grabbed a little too hard, who is charged with abuse and you have another man who pads the statistics that men hurt women. Pleaing the cases and not wanting to spend the money that I did to defend themselves only compounds things.

I guess my point is that there is hardly any information that isn't biased, political, or influenced by money. Don't get me wrong, but ALL ABUSE needs to be addressed, and the simple solutions don't work. No one deserves abuse. And noone should be charged for defending themselves, but it happens more than anyone can imagine.

Frankly I hope and pray that more men come forward and work to change things. We need to come up with ways to truely protect the seriously abused woman. Ways to help families that are going through this, as I think most hard working men want to save their families (I was in this category). And change the laws that make it a good tatic to use in a custody case by diverting resources ($$$ and time) away from custody and take them to staying out of jail, and tarnish a reputation to "win".

The funny thing about my situation is that I started studying Uechi-Ryu AFTER all of this. The mental side of the art is very helpful to me. The fact that I can defend myself better if I have to is simply a byproduct of the art. But I also have much better control of myself, and can adjust from extreme anger to using just enough force if needed. I think Van Canna Sensei's verbal self defense discussions are examples of the practical side that I use quite a bit along with avoiding bad situations, and getting out of relationships that don't feel right.

I don't know if I've said anything usefull here. I hope I've made points clearly, as I'd hate for someone to think that I don't want everyone who needs help to get it, but I also don't like seeing people get "screwed" by the system.

Tom
p.s. Sorry but as a vitctim I have a lot of emition on this subject.

[Bill Glasheen]

What are our responsibilities in a martial arts community? Certainly teachers have (some) influence over their students in the development process. What of our peers?

There's this pendulum that seems to swing back and forth on the whole jutsu vs. do thing. Way back whenever, it seems that martial arts were there for fighting enemies and protecting loved ones. Sometime in the 20th century, Okinawa and Japan created the concept of karate do to put an air of respectability in the art and make it part of the mainstream culture. Allegedly a "watered down" version of the original arts (neutered of lethal content topics like kyusho) were taught in the school systems. And allegedly the Okinawans held quite a bit back from the Americans that studied in their dojos. (Some like me don't think that's entirely true...)

These days we hear folks talking about practicing the arts "the old way" or "the way they were intended to be taught" or "complete with the martial intent in mind." We see the emergence of kyusho/tuite/dim-mak, reality training, lethal force instruction, etc.

Meanwhile, we start to see American society recoiling from what is happening around it. Serial snipers get people talking about bad guns and bad martial artists. Laws come into the book to ban any "kung fu" weapon that appears on the big screen (nunchakus, shurikens, manrikigusari, etc.). People debate whether or not martial arts instruction should be regulated, and martial arts instructors certified.

Do we as a group act proactively to "clean up our mess" just as the Institute of Medicine opened its doors and exposed the problem of patient error? Do we tolerate bad behavior around us, and wait for "existing laws" to clean up the mess?

Both medicine and law operate under a code of ethics. I could pass on the details if anyone wishes to see them. Branches of the military like The Marines talk about developing "soft skills" in their members. Are "we" doing the same? Should we? Can we?

Can we afford to do nothing?

- Bill

[gmattson]

Thankfully, I don't have much experience with the abuse issue. I know it happens and agree that the abuser should be severely punished.

I'm posting because it is kind of nice to hear that people are studying the martial arts for a variety of reasons that don't have anything to do with physical fighting.

Guess in some circles I'm considered a "lotus eater", because I was taught the art by a warrior philosopher instead of a person who just understood the fighting potential of what we do.

Doesn't make me any better or any less qualified than anyone else. At that terrifying moment of truth, be it during a fight or death itself, each of us must act based on our genes, environment, training, fitnes level and heart. Until that time I'll continue to enjoy life, my family and friends and let the moment of truth work intself out during that moment alone.

[Bill Glasheen]

Tom

Do not apologize for your story.

Thank you.

- Bill

[Bill Glasheen]

I equate the beast with blind rage.

I think sometimes one necessarily leads to the other. That's what I talk about when speaking of the beast welling up more slowly, as when some goon grabs your date in the rear end.

However I have seen "the beast" come out in myself - several times - when sucker punched. There isn't enough time for "blind rage" to come forth in that scenario. And frankly it happened so fast that it took me several seconds to realize what I had done. That's when it REALLY feels like another person.

I'm sure there's a behavioral health expert that could explain it better than I. This is a very real phenomenon.

- Bill

[M. Kelly]

Speaking of the inner beast, is anyone familiar with the story of Iron John?