Martial Arts- "The Way of the Warrior" (Discover c

[KerryM]

Thought I'd put this topic in here being that else-where I don't get to much of a response-

Was watching a documentary on the Discovery Channel the other night- (last time it will be on for a while- but in case anyone else saw it-) It was called "Martial Arts- Way of the Warrior" it was a topic on "In the inside" or something like that-

They had a bit of Uechi-Ryu/ Goju-ryu at the begining of the doc- which was really exciting to watch-

BUT-

the biggest main topic of the whole thing-

Martial Arts is a "spiritual" discovery- adventure - practice- (and they referred to it as soulful - spiritual not just will-power or drive etc....)

I sat there watching this documentary shoving my hands in the air like- "YEah- duh" why doesn't anyone talk like this on the forums? why is it so/just/ physical and mental- when these people at least seem to recognize the significance of it's "sprititualness"..

I realize this is a touchy subject- that's why the topic is in here- but did anyone else see the doc- and notice the same thing?

Let me re-itterate- that I don't think Uechi-Ryu should be thought of as a religion- but I also don't think the "spiritual" and I'm talking about the like "zen" persay side of it- should be neglected either-
we all talk about the "Realities" being harsh etc- and those types of the "sticky" ends of MA's but what about THIS sticky part- ???


ok- just wondering what you all thought- (don't hurt me- just looking for other opinions here

K

[Stryke]

Personally I dont think spirituality is pushed and taught per se in martial arts for one good reason


Its not a religion ....

the spirituality of martial arts is very individual and cant be passed down by rote , it comes from learning yourself , this is what karate can do for you , Its a tool not a message , It makes you confront yourself , and if you stick at it you learn that you can overcome , you confront reality more than in our unreal world , you can or you cant ... simple , this can build will , and realising your will can build spirit , a beleif in yourself to persevere , a beleif that you can and will .... a realisation of self , and acceptance of where you are and how you fit into this world , its an opening of your eyes for some , and a pride to know you will rise to the challenge..... win or fail

thats what it is to me .

once you have it it can never be taken from you

[CANDANeh]

I agree with Stryke, it is individual. Spiritual aspect should not be taught as it may lead to cult at worse or simply result in blank looks from the captive students . To me spiritual or soulful insights are unexpected beautiful sunsets or when a dog lays at your feet, or even the quite moment at the end of a hard work out.
Kerry you are also right..and if you enjoy that aspect of Uechi it is a wonderful thing for you, and your certainly not alone (it shouldn`t matter if you were anyway right ) Remember this one?
"He who looks at the finger pointing at the moon doesn`t see the moon" or something like that...its early

[KerryM]

I believe both of you are right- to a point- I hope to get the documentary on tape so maybe we can pass it around. I absolutely don't think it should be a religious/cult type thing- but to be honest- I think that the belief that if that aspect is taught or discussed- will make that happen- is a mistake also- that is as much an extreme as taking the spiritual aspect of karate and leaving it un-discussed/ for fear of that. There is a happy middle here is what I'm saying. Everything you both said is completely true- but if in a class room setting, students (or the forums for that matter) aren't - how should I say this- if students aren't told about the possiblities here- if they aren't suggested to them- that actual "spiritual" growth can happen- then maybe it won't even occur to them. maybe this could be one reason many students "leave" because the karate seems to be more like a fad- such as when the aerobics craze hit and everyone was doing it- or the tae-bo bit. Those a physical things- physical and mental work outs.

Sanchin- I repeat- is three conflicts- mind body and spirit. The "true" persay martial artists- the chinese ma's koreon etc. all recognize this 1/3 of the karate as being the most important- the most discussed- etc. all over the world. the point I keep trying to make is that if we as UEchi practitioners don't pick up the ball and at least recognize this - people will feel that they are missing something- what if you had a student that saw this documentary- or watched some movie that suggested an "inner peace" coming with the practice of karate- then they join the class "looking" for that third aspect. Yet it isn't discussed- reviewed- etc. Think that student is going to stay?

I say this because - that aspect is "out there" people associate it with Martial Arts. It's common knowledge. Yet we all call it "too-personal" to talk about- or discuss ways to enhance that particular aspect- as a possiblity? Yes it is extrtemely personal- and it will/would be different for each and every person- espescially the depth of which the growth happens. But let me make one more last suggestion-

take the physical aspect- a student is getting stronger- been doing kata and conditioning for a long time- with strength comes responsibility. Knowledge of the fact that- it's "possible" to also hurt yourself working out etc "because" you "are" getting stronger- you can also gravely "hurt" other people- so you can't run around doing karate playfully- whimsically- ok- these are the possibilities within the art right- these possiblities whether they actually happen to someone or not- are discussed- excersizes to prevent the injuries and what not are acknowledged and taught because the realitity is there- it's a "possiblity" physical-ness, is one of the three aspects-

should the spiritual part 1/3 aspect not be- because it is personal? isn't hurting your body if you do something incorrectly pretty personal?

Please know- I'm not trying to offend or be dis-respectful here- I'm just bouncing my own ideas and thoughts off of you- Most of you out there are seniors- or at least much higher rank than myself- so I'd really just like to know what your thinking is on this.

No- karate isn't a religion- it is/or at least "can be" a soulful/spiritual "excersize" for personal development. I think that should be acknowledged and talked about. Just like what Mr. Canna Sensei says- if you don't like it- turn the page- but for those people looking for it- I think it should be made available for them. It's like cheese for your hamburger- some won't eat a hamburger without it- some won't with it- should offer both.

smiling-
thanks for indulging me
K

[Akil Todd Harvey]

Kerry,

Thanks for the post.........I am pretty sure that I saw the same doc as you did, although I think it saw it last year (it has been re-run this year as well).......

One of the hardest parts of my martial arts journey has been my spiritual journey.....the spiritual journey is hard enough in and of itself.......but the lack of any spiritual understanding on the part of a vast majority of people who call themselves martial artsists has been more than a little disconcerting....that says more about me and my expectatiuons of them than it does about them....

In my martial arts journey I have had to cross the boundary between Uechi and the other styles (whether closesly or not even remotely related to Uechi). The chinese have gung Fu/Tai chi/Chin na, & confusism (sp?)....the koreans have tae kwon do (not sure of their traditional spiritual leanings).....the japanese have karate / jujitsu / aikido / ninjitsu and they have zen ...........

Years ago, I gave a book to my brother in law called zen driving. After having studied zen meditation for some time (individually), I thought that the book had some valuable insights in how we could drive using the mental patterns learned in martial arts and thus create relaxation from the driving time that usually leaves us so full of stress. Keep in mind, i made sure that I did not give that book to just anyone, I gave it to a martial artist who, it turns out, knew nothing of zen or its supposed benefits (cuz he was studying chinese martial arts). That book was made the christmas grab bag item for years to come; the martial artist for whom the book meant nothing gave it away, as some useless joke, to non-martial artists who saw even less value in it.......

To this day, when driving in situations that allow it, I do my zen driving (a form of meditation-it had first been taught to me by a Uechi man) and arrive far less stressed out than most folks on the road.......I even went so far as to expand upon that.......I developed yoga driving (which scares a lot of people)....the slower you are driving the easier it is to do yoga driving (warning: this is an advanced driving manuever)......keeping in mind that ordinarily the slower the traffic crawls, the more frustrated we become......


Lest I should be misunderstood....let me be clear......Kerry....the farther you go on your spiritual journey, the less you will be understood by those who chose NOT to take that journey........

Best of luck........

"He who looks at the finger pointing at the moon doesn`t see the moon" or something like that...its early

Look at the Moon, not my finger pointing at the moon.......

I could not tell you the exact quote off hand, but the main point of that quote is not to mistake the finger pointing at the moon for the moon itself.........

What is the sound of one hand clapping? (a zen riddle that may teach how to deal with an attacker........whether a verbal attacker or a physical one.....




ATH

[Panther]

What is the sound of one hand clapping? (a zen riddle that may teach how to deal with an attacker........whether a verbal attacker or a physical one.....

I haven't been writing much... mostly just watching and reading... but that old zen riddle allows me to interject.

I was once priviledged to get some time with a "bonafide zen master". The classes were interesting and enlightening in their own way. (side note that wasn't the first time I had sought to spend time with different spiritual gurus nor was it the last. ) Anyway, as happens in many such classes, the last class was a sort of question and answer session where people approached the master and humbly posed a question. There were lots of questions and with typical zen ambiguity there were answers from the master. With one noted exception...

A student who had been rather snobbish about the fact that he had studied zen for decades approached the master and everyone just knew there was going to be some profound question asked. But what issued forth from this zen pupil was that age old zen riddle... "Master, what is the sound of one hand clapping?" Without hesitation the master slapped the ever loving.... ummmmm... smacked the guy across the face a good one! And then the master, in his typical calm zen voice asks the pupil... "Did you hear it?"

I still ROTFLMAO every time I think about it! When it happened, I broke into hysterical laughter so hard that I couldn't catch my breath and fell over from the seated position I was in on the floor. (Yep, literally ROTFL!!) When I was done with this bit of enjoyment I realized that no one else was laughing and everyone was staring at me. The master called me up to him. I went, but stated that I didn't have a question for him. When I started to sit, he said, "No... sit up here with me." (He was sitting on this little rise area.) Then he looked out across the room ful of people, slowly returned his gaze to me and said, "This is the only person here after a week of classes that understands."

So, the moral of the story is... be careful posing zen riddles to a zen master!

[Akil Todd Harvey]

Everyone,

I was away from the house the other day and trying to review what I had written and was fearful that what I had posted was overly snobbish as it relates to this spiritual stuff. Not sure how arrogant my last post appeared to others, but my point was not so much to declare my being on some super high spiritual plain above other martial artists as to decry the state of things......

Panther,
Thanks for the amusing story which is also a cautionary tale.......

ATH

[Panther]

Akil,

I've learned a lot from the many spiritual gurus I've had the profound opportunities to met and learn from. Mainly, I've learned to not take myself to seriously... in other words, that there is always someone who knows more or is on a higher plain than I am. However...

I wasn't going to respond, but I just want you to know that my reference to that particular "snobbish" zen student wasn't a reflection on you or your post in any way. It was simply the description of the person who posed that question in that particular session with that particular zen master. I'll also tell you that the "snobbish" zen student in question and I have run into each other at other spiritual seminars and that one response from that one zen master (in my humble opinion... and in conversation the person agrees) did more for that "snobbish" zen student's enlightenment than many years of "study". Today, he's not the snobbish spiritual person who asked that question years ago...

Take care and be good to yourselves...

[gmattson]

Don't get paranoid about posting. Just stay away from issues where people get a bit crazy, like war and religion. . . especially when they kind of overlap.