Ian
Conditioning?!?!?!?
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Uechi_Student
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Conditioning?!?!?!?
I was just wondering if anyone in here knew ways at home (or who knows...maybe even at school) that I can do to condition my fingers...besides a makiwara??? I just wanted to know because im a 13 year old guy who doesnt have a whole lot of time when school gets out(homework,friends etc...)to conditon. Thanks.
Ian
Ian
In my younger Uechi days I used to condition my hands and fingers at home, for fighting, almost daily for a long stretch of time and used a number of different methods to strengthen them without deforming them.
A favorite technique if mine was to strike into a pail fairly full of myung beans, another time it was kidney beans, another time I used garbanzo (sp) beans and yet another time it was thrusting into a pail of rice.
I punched, thrusted with open hands, with the shoken, and with the hiraken as well. Sometimes I would go in and trust with my hand shaped as if it held a baseball with fingers extended and straight; sometimes even squeeze at the end of the thrust.
What I found for myself was they became very strong and when I grabbed someone in sparring I would often accidentally hurt them by grabbing even when I tried not to hurt them. That type of strength took several years to develop, but it was worth it to me.
I practiced the most and most ambitiously and for the longer of the times using myung beans. In the Midwest, where I lived at the time, I purchased all sorts of grain in bulk and it WAS cheap, maybe .25 or so a pound in bulk.
Grains have a way of attaching themselves to your fingers, hand, and arm while retracting from a strike and then falling on the floor. For a solution I taped manila folders around the lip of the pails thusly increasing the effective height of the pail and preventing much of the spillage.
Conditioning the hands that way was a long slow process and often felt as if nothing was happening until one day I thought: "Wow!" It's as if a change occurred overnight.
I learned how to do the described above from my first Sifu, a Sifu in the Wu-Tang system in the early seventies at who taught mostly only Chinese people where I worked at MIT. However, both he and his assistant also met with me in the basement of a dormitory on Sunday mornings for private lessons where I picked up martial arts "stuff" that was not mainstream. I mentioned this reference for the purpose to let you know I didn't pull the technique I described above out of thin air.
A favorite technique if mine was to strike into a pail fairly full of myung beans, another time it was kidney beans, another time I used garbanzo (sp) beans and yet another time it was thrusting into a pail of rice.
I punched, thrusted with open hands, with the shoken, and with the hiraken as well. Sometimes I would go in and trust with my hand shaped as if it held a baseball with fingers extended and straight; sometimes even squeeze at the end of the thrust.
What I found for myself was they became very strong and when I grabbed someone in sparring I would often accidentally hurt them by grabbing even when I tried not to hurt them. That type of strength took several years to develop, but it was worth it to me.
I practiced the most and most ambitiously and for the longer of the times using myung beans. In the Midwest, where I lived at the time, I purchased all sorts of grain in bulk and it WAS cheap, maybe .25 or so a pound in bulk.
Grains have a way of attaching themselves to your fingers, hand, and arm while retracting from a strike and then falling on the floor. For a solution I taped manila folders around the lip of the pails thusly increasing the effective height of the pail and preventing much of the spillage.
Conditioning the hands that way was a long slow process and often felt as if nothing was happening until one day I thought: "Wow!" It's as if a change occurred overnight.
I learned how to do the described above from my first Sifu, a Sifu in the Wu-Tang system in the early seventies at who taught mostly only Chinese people where I worked at MIT. However, both he and his assistant also met with me in the basement of a dormitory on Sunday mornings for private lessons where I picked up martial arts "stuff" that was not mainstream. I mentioned this reference for the purpose to let you know I didn't pull the technique I described above out of thin air.
Always with an even keel.
-- Allen
-- Allen
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Uechi_Student
- Posts: 20
- Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2003 12:44 am
- Location: Michigan
- Contact:
A friend who used to train the claw type grip used to use large wide-mouthed jars or jugs filled with sand. While sitting in a horse and the jars placed around your position you grasp the jars using the claw hand and pick them up by clasping the claw around the mouth of the jugs and swap their positions - like two on each side swapping them at the same time - Bill has said this is actually traditional Uechi training as well.
Jim
Jim
Moy Yat Ving Tsun Kung-Fu
Rest in peace dear teacher: Moy Yat Sifu
Rest in peace dear teacher: Moy Yat Sifu
Bill was right. I do that too but it provides training for a different kind of strength.
I'm not into the nauseating traditionalizm so I never got sucked into what is often called "Okinawan Religion." This means I use whatever is available for training tools even if it's stamped "Made in America" on it and even if it's something I fashioned from my own intuitions, often on the spur of the moment just to try the idea out to determine if it works.
Not withstanding, I don't use clay jars; rather I have about a dozen or so plastic jugs tha I collected drom a place where I worked years ago. These jugs were originally filled with pretzels and sych from BJ's, The Price Club, or one of those and placed in a conspicuous area in work next to a donation cup. They would empty out about once a week and I'd try to be the first to grab an empty.
Rice is a staple at my house, I have a pallet of 50# rice sacks in the basement so using rice rather than sand was a no-brainer. Becides, it is easier to measure and much cleaner as well. Each pair of jars is filled with a certain level of rice.
That really is a nice system of building the sanching arm rather than strengthening the hand.
I'm not into the nauseating traditionalizm so I never got sucked into what is often called "Okinawan Religion." This means I use whatever is available for training tools even if it's stamped "Made in America" on it and even if it's something I fashioned from my own intuitions, often on the spur of the moment just to try the idea out to determine if it works.
Not withstanding, I don't use clay jars; rather I have about a dozen or so plastic jugs tha I collected drom a place where I worked years ago. These jugs were originally filled with pretzels and sych from BJ's, The Price Club, or one of those and placed in a conspicuous area in work next to a donation cup. They would empty out about once a week and I'd try to be the first to grab an empty.
Rice is a staple at my house, I have a pallet of 50# rice sacks in the basement so using rice rather than sand was a no-brainer. Becides, it is easier to measure and much cleaner as well. Each pair of jars is filled with a certain level of rice.
That really is a nice system of building the sanching arm rather than strengthening the hand.
Always with an even keel.
-- Allen
-- Allen
Uechi_Student
Congratulations in your starting with Uechi and what I perceive as a dedication that will be the progenitor of 'Uechi, the Next Generation'.
Personally, I was never strong as Deep Sea, Excellent as GEM, deadly as Walter Mattson, etc. As GEM taught, each takes from Uechi what is his. After 43 years of doing the Kata I found some training aids that worked for me:
a) Shoken - placing a 1" to 2" firm rubber or foam blank agains the wall, make strong wrist/shoken, stand away from the wall as comfortable holding the foam with the tips, and lean/withdraw. Pick up the count from 5 to 20 with time. Rub tips of knuckles frequently.
After steady months you can increase pressure by leaning from further distance from wall. No damage or arthritis to Shoken points.
b) Nukite: Same wall, three center fingers in a straight pyramid with equilateral base. Lean only as far back so that the fingers are straight, no bending. A century ago when I started it took me months to progress to being far from wall. For a while I could then do push-ups with the 3 fingers straight. Still no damage. In use I found that by placing the two adjacent fingers slightly under the the middle fingers which gave structural strength as opposed to keeping all fingers in a plane.
c) Pincer with thumb and finger: Any light hand spring that allows resistance. Over time you can pinch more than an inch of flesh (e.g.,muscles ar side of opponents neck, etc.)
Over time the 'wall pushes' can be done at any door way and there is no damage to hand.
Again best wishes and many safe, no injury Uechi years to you.
Personally, I was never strong as Deep Sea, Excellent as GEM, deadly as Walter Mattson, etc. As GEM taught, each takes from Uechi what is his. After 43 years of doing the Kata I found some training aids that worked for me:
a) Shoken - placing a 1" to 2" firm rubber or foam blank agains the wall, make strong wrist/shoken, stand away from the wall as comfortable holding the foam with the tips, and lean/withdraw. Pick up the count from 5 to 20 with time. Rub tips of knuckles frequently.
After steady months you can increase pressure by leaning from further distance from wall. No damage or arthritis to Shoken points.
b) Nukite: Same wall, three center fingers in a straight pyramid with equilateral base. Lean only as far back so that the fingers are straight, no bending. A century ago when I started it took me months to progress to being far from wall. For a while I could then do push-ups with the 3 fingers straight. Still no damage. In use I found that by placing the two adjacent fingers slightly under the the middle fingers which gave structural strength as opposed to keeping all fingers in a plane.
c) Pincer with thumb and finger: Any light hand spring that allows resistance. Over time you can pinch more than an inch of flesh (e.g.,muscles ar side of opponents neck, etc.)
Over time the 'wall pushes' can be done at any door way and there is no damage to hand.
Again best wishes and many safe, no injury Uechi years to you.
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Bill Glasheen
- Posts: 17299
- Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
- Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY
My personal training is somewhat complex.
To start with, I agree with the methods where people strike in buckets of beans, sand, etc. That's great stuff. However, I believe one should first build the internal strength. And by that, I mean the muscles and tendons that support the joints, ligaments, and bones.
The "kami" or jars are the classical way to develop the grip. Basically you want something like a vase (filled with sand) with the proper sized "lip" that you can grab with a boshiken hand. Traditionally people pick these things up (one on each side) and walk in sanchin.
I'm still looking for someone who can help me prototype something I have in my head that can be hooked to a seated rowing machine. There's probably a patent in it... Anyone good at shaping things from wood or plastic?
I do my wrist, hand, and finger training all at once. I start with finger-and-wrist curls, alternated with reverse wrist curls. On the former, you can work your fingers. On the latter, you can work your boshiken thumb by mostly holding the bar with your thumb. Check out a standard weight training book for these exercises. They are generally done holding your forearms on a bench.
There's a less sophisticated but simpler way to do the above. You tie a rope to the middle of a piece of wooden closet pole or bo, tie a weight on the other end of the rope, and then roll the rope up. Make sure you do both flexion and extension of wrist when rolling the weight up.
I have a really fine machine in my gym that does pronation/supination, and ulnar/radial deviations of the wrist. You can make cheapo devices to do this by taking a piece of closet pole, nail some nails in the end in several directions, and sticking it in a coffee or juice can with wet concrete mix. When cured, you have a concrete weight on the end of a stick. If you know the motions I speak of, you can use this device to work them. This is mostly a forearm/wrist trainer.
Supporting weight on the fingers and hands - like the way one does knuckle pushups - is a great way to further develop muscle, tendon, and even bone. There are two methods I use.
First is a bit difficult to describe, but something I consider VITAL for the Uechika. I learned it (indirectly) from David Lamb's first (Okinawan) pangainoon instructor. What you do is create a kind of tripod with your thumb, index finger, and middle finger on the floor. You use the boshiken thumb (last bone), the next-to-last bone of the index finger, and the next-to-last bone of the middle finger. First get up on them and support your weight. When you can hold yourself up in a pushup position, then start trying to do pushups with them. You should be able to do at least ten. When you do this right and take your hand off the floor, you should see a mark on your thumb exactly where you'd want it for a boshiken tsuki, a mark on the last knucle of your index finger exactly where you'd want it for a shoken tsuki, and a mark on your middle finger knuckle exactly where you'd want it for a hiraken.
The second method is basically a boshiken pushup. Get up on your boshiken hands. This means finger TIPS (not prints) and boshiken thumb. When you can get up in a pushup position with these, then try doing some shallow pushups.
Finally - go to a climbing gym. Any rock climbing is great work for the Uechi fingers. Go to a climbing store and check out the toys they use for developing finger strength.
Remember that when you put force on the fingers, the hanging (extension) forces are a LOT less stressful on the finger joints than the pushing (compression) forces. Rock climbing and jars would be considered extension exercises, whereas boshiken pushups and thrusting into beans would be considered compression exercises. It's best to mix these up a bit.
On your inbetween days (yes, have days where you rest the fingers), flush the joints and tendons of your fingers out by doing the squeeze and extension motions at the end of sanchin with dynamic tension. Yet another reason to do sanchin - correctly.
- Bill
To start with, I agree with the methods where people strike in buckets of beans, sand, etc. That's great stuff. However, I believe one should first build the internal strength. And by that, I mean the muscles and tendons that support the joints, ligaments, and bones.
The "kami" or jars are the classical way to develop the grip. Basically you want something like a vase (filled with sand) with the proper sized "lip" that you can grab with a boshiken hand. Traditionally people pick these things up (one on each side) and walk in sanchin.
I'm still looking for someone who can help me prototype something I have in my head that can be hooked to a seated rowing machine. There's probably a patent in it... Anyone good at shaping things from wood or plastic?
I do my wrist, hand, and finger training all at once. I start with finger-and-wrist curls, alternated with reverse wrist curls. On the former, you can work your fingers. On the latter, you can work your boshiken thumb by mostly holding the bar with your thumb. Check out a standard weight training book for these exercises. They are generally done holding your forearms on a bench.
There's a less sophisticated but simpler way to do the above. You tie a rope to the middle of a piece of wooden closet pole or bo, tie a weight on the other end of the rope, and then roll the rope up. Make sure you do both flexion and extension of wrist when rolling the weight up.
I have a really fine machine in my gym that does pronation/supination, and ulnar/radial deviations of the wrist. You can make cheapo devices to do this by taking a piece of closet pole, nail some nails in the end in several directions, and sticking it in a coffee or juice can with wet concrete mix. When cured, you have a concrete weight on the end of a stick. If you know the motions I speak of, you can use this device to work them. This is mostly a forearm/wrist trainer.
Supporting weight on the fingers and hands - like the way one does knuckle pushups - is a great way to further develop muscle, tendon, and even bone. There are two methods I use.
First is a bit difficult to describe, but something I consider VITAL for the Uechika. I learned it (indirectly) from David Lamb's first (Okinawan) pangainoon instructor. What you do is create a kind of tripod with your thumb, index finger, and middle finger on the floor. You use the boshiken thumb (last bone), the next-to-last bone of the index finger, and the next-to-last bone of the middle finger. First get up on them and support your weight. When you can hold yourself up in a pushup position, then start trying to do pushups with them. You should be able to do at least ten. When you do this right and take your hand off the floor, you should see a mark on your thumb exactly where you'd want it for a boshiken tsuki, a mark on the last knucle of your index finger exactly where you'd want it for a shoken tsuki, and a mark on your middle finger knuckle exactly where you'd want it for a hiraken.
The second method is basically a boshiken pushup. Get up on your boshiken hands. This means finger TIPS (not prints) and boshiken thumb. When you can get up in a pushup position with these, then try doing some shallow pushups.
Finally - go to a climbing gym. Any rock climbing is great work for the Uechi fingers. Go to a climbing store and check out the toys they use for developing finger strength.
Remember that when you put force on the fingers, the hanging (extension) forces are a LOT less stressful on the finger joints than the pushing (compression) forces. Rock climbing and jars would be considered extension exercises, whereas boshiken pushups and thrusting into beans would be considered compression exercises. It's best to mix these up a bit.
On your inbetween days (yes, have days where you rest the fingers), flush the joints and tendons of your fingers out by doing the squeeze and extension motions at the end of sanchin with dynamic tension. Yet another reason to do sanchin - correctly.
- Bill
I forgot about the following two but they are excellent.
1) The finger pushups (ever try the two-finger-one thumb pushup, tsguy?
2) The weight/dowel rope. We used to stand up on a chair for added turning of the dowel in a single direction, and tied a free weight to the end as a weight. Tyhat exericse is a real burner, especially lowering the weight back down to the floor.
and then
1) The finger pushups (ever try the two-finger-one thumb pushup, tsguy?
2) The weight/dowel rope. We used to stand up on a chair for added turning of the dowel in a single direction, and tied a free weight to the end as a weight. Tyhat exericse is a real burner, especially lowering the weight back down to the floor.
and then
The pushups provide a strong steady compression on the joints and there's a little muscle action used to stabulize them while the bean thrusting is more subtle but with a violent compression and no muscle action. The pushups are more for strengthening the fingers while the beans are more for "joint strengthening" and alignment memory practice as in preparing the fingers to do actual insertions. While I think only a few gifted can penetrate skin it's not difficult to sometimes poke in just under the floating rib with the fingertips try to grab it and pull it out. Of course if there is muscle mass there and it has been tightened up a-la the TC method all bets are off for grabing that rib, but a lot pf people font have that and although I've never used it seems to me to be a neat little tool to have tucked away in the casr the opportunity should arise. .pushups and thrusting into beans would be considered compression exercises.
Always with an even keel.
-- Allen
-- Allen
I so like the way you think Deep Sea! 
Make Uechi your own by using your brain! YEAH!!!! Come up with your own stuff! I do this also!
ok- you are at school- listening to your teacher in front of the class, or reading on an assignment.... if you don't think it will get you too noticed by the teacher- requiring public explanation- try this-
sitting at the desk- one hand at a time- if holding a book straight as well- put your hands into the "down wrist block position- in other words- sanchin hands straight out parallel to each other- so you'll be using the "meaty" portion of the outside of your hand. NOT your fingers. Lightly at first bang them on the edge of the desk.- Like I said- if it won't make a lot of noise n get you in trouble. Gradually increase how hard you hit the desk. - With that portion of your hands.
I had a friend in school whom was learning to play the bags pipes. (LOL-I know- Scottish school ok? LOL) One of the excersizes they told her to do, to strengthen her fingers- was to splay her hand out on the table- like you would trace an outline of your hand.... Remember that? then lift each finger one by one back and forth. Gradually increase speed.
These are some you can do at school while listening, reding studying- use your judgement as to which and when.
At home- the others are awesome and really work-
When walking in the halls- tighten your muscles- carry a back pack? keep from your torso up- in sanchin- will save back and sholder- switch your pack from side to side often. So you don't damage your sholder with how heavy books are-
Hold a school book by your fingers for as long as you can down to your side- using just your fingers- that outta strengthen them-
That help at all?
Welcome to Uechi Ryu!
K-
Make Uechi your own by using your brain! YEAH!!!! Come up with your own stuff! I do this also!ok- you are at school- listening to your teacher in front of the class, or reading on an assignment.... if you don't think it will get you too noticed by the teacher- requiring public explanation- try this-
sitting at the desk- one hand at a time- if holding a book straight as well- put your hands into the "down wrist block position- in other words- sanchin hands straight out parallel to each other- so you'll be using the "meaty" portion of the outside of your hand. NOT your fingers. Lightly at first bang them on the edge of the desk.- Like I said- if it won't make a lot of noise n get you in trouble. Gradually increase how hard you hit the desk. - With that portion of your hands.
I had a friend in school whom was learning to play the bags pipes. (LOL-I know- Scottish school ok? LOL) One of the excersizes they told her to do, to strengthen her fingers- was to splay her hand out on the table- like you would trace an outline of your hand.... Remember that?
then lift each finger one by one back and forth. Gradually increase speed.These are some you can do at school while listening, reding studying- use your judgement as to which and when.
At home- the others are awesome and really work-
When walking in the halls- tighten your muscles- carry a back pack? keep from your torso up- in sanchin- will save back and sholder- switch your pack from side to side often. So you don't damage your sholder with how heavy books are-
Hold a school book by your fingers for as long as you can down to your side- using just your fingers- that outta strengthen them-
That help at all?
Welcome to Uechi Ryu!
K-
Chicken or the Egg?
Your holding the books, K, shook up a little more rust at the edges of this aging cranium.
In the first four years of the 1960s when I wasn't socializing or doing homework I played the guitar -- a lot, and used hand-held finger grippers to strengthen my fingers and forearms, but it wasn't until about thirty years ago, yes, from about 1973 through 1977 I did finger exercises while driving back and forth to work on this state's longest parking lot during crash hour, a painful no-brainer [both the drive and the workout!].
I carried with me two of the hand-held finger grippers, one medium strength and one tough to squeeze for any larger number of reps; the ones that are open and wider at one end and have a hard spring-steel loop at the other end which provides the resistance to the muscles when the exerciser is squeezed. They can be had today and seem to have been around since the beginning of time.
Only I used them in a non-conventional manner.
Rather than grabbing and squeezing them with a full grip as was advertised, I instead used my fingertips to squeeze the handles together. The little pinky gets too much of a workout, so I reversed the hold on them. The normal way was to grab them with the pinky holding on to the widest end, which I did, but was able to maximize the utility of those exercisers by placing the thumb and forefinger at the wide, or open end, thereby the pinky was situated at the narrower end, thus allowing a tremendous opportunity to strengthen that little guy as well.
My drive was about 45 minutes or more each way, and I often used about 30 minutes-worth in the morning on the way in during the boring drive.
I remember building up to doing a number of sets of 100 reps on the lighter ones and a number of sets of 30 reps on the difficult ones. Often there was 5 minutes or so recovery between sets because they do burn.
I hope that gives you a few more ideas. BTW, I carry [carries] books around at work all the time and sometimes hold them as you advertised although I'm not into peaking body strength anymore; I've already done my damage in my youth, and it's up to you younger Lasses and Lads to take up the slack.
Early this afternoon, GEM and I were talking about aging a little and neither of us feel the weight of our years as many of our constituents do and both agreed it was Martial arts, er uh Uechi-ryu, practice responsible for lessening the weight of the expanding pyramid of increasing numbers resting upon our shoulders pushing us down toward the dust from whence we came.
We try to teach and learn good posture while practicing Sanchin in order to do it properly, now you've flipped the table and teach us to practice Sanchin in order to assume good posture outside class. Yes! I guess whatever goes around comes around.When walking in the halls- tighten your muscles- carry a back pack? keep from your torso up- in sanchin- will save back and sholder- switch your pack from side to side often. So you don't damage your sholder with how heavy books are-
Your holding the books, K, shook up a little more rust at the edges of this aging cranium.
In the first four years of the 1960s when I wasn't socializing or doing homework I played the guitar -- a lot, and used hand-held finger grippers to strengthen my fingers and forearms, but it wasn't until about thirty years ago, yes, from about 1973 through 1977 I did finger exercises while driving back and forth to work on this state's longest parking lot during crash hour, a painful no-brainer [both the drive and the workout!].
I carried with me two of the hand-held finger grippers, one medium strength and one tough to squeeze for any larger number of reps; the ones that are open and wider at one end and have a hard spring-steel loop at the other end which provides the resistance to the muscles when the exerciser is squeezed. They can be had today and seem to have been around since the beginning of time.
Only I used them in a non-conventional manner.
Rather than grabbing and squeezing them with a full grip as was advertised, I instead used my fingertips to squeeze the handles together. The little pinky gets too much of a workout, so I reversed the hold on them. The normal way was to grab them with the pinky holding on to the widest end, which I did, but was able to maximize the utility of those exercisers by placing the thumb and forefinger at the wide, or open end, thereby the pinky was situated at the narrower end, thus allowing a tremendous opportunity to strengthen that little guy as well.
My drive was about 45 minutes or more each way, and I often used about 30 minutes-worth in the morning on the way in during the boring drive.
I remember building up to doing a number of sets of 100 reps on the lighter ones and a number of sets of 30 reps on the difficult ones. Often there was 5 minutes or so recovery between sets because they do burn.
I hope that gives you a few more ideas. BTW, I carry [carries] books around at work all the time and sometimes hold them as you advertised although I'm not into peaking body strength anymore; I've already done my damage in my youth, and it's up to you younger Lasses and Lads to take up the slack.
Early this afternoon, GEM and I were talking about aging a little and neither of us feel the weight of our years as many of our constituents do and both agreed it was Martial arts, er uh Uechi-ryu, practice responsible for lessening the weight of the expanding pyramid of increasing numbers resting upon our shoulders pushing us down toward the dust from whence we came.
Always with an even keel.
-- Allen
-- Allen
