"Worthless" kumite?

[Rick Wilson]

It seems to me that for a discussion on the prearranged Uechi Kumites there perhaps should be a division of topics.

For example, we all know of schools that teach basically: Kata, the prearranged Kumite Kyu, Dan or Kyu Dan (the OKIKUKAI set), prearranged Bunkai (Kanshiwa 2 person, 4 person and Seisan), and sparring (often of a sport orientation). These schools also advertise that they teach self defence. There are those of us who would examine that claim.

There are other schools where the prearranged Kumites and Bunkai are simply a small portion of what they teach (often only at testing time).

There are schools that use the prearranged Kumites but also teach scenario training with some form of protective gear.

So one topic could be how much of your training are Kyu, Dan, Kyu Dan Kumites?

This would lead to other questions.

If they form a major portion of your training, do you feel they teach you self defence for real situations?

For those who do like what the Kumites teach, then specifically, what principles do you feel they teach you?

Do you supplement it with other drills?

How do you feel they express Uechi Ryu? Now this is one that could lead into some interesting discussions because the expression of Uechi Ryu could be very different for everyone.

What do you use to teach the in close fighting principles of Uechi Ryu? (Okay, so this one shows my biases.)

There are other questions that have been discussed before but it is never too late to have another go.

I think we also hit the spot we have hit before where we need to define things up front. For example “what do you feel the purpose of prearranged Kumites is”… This might lead to a different discussion.

A good example of this is Gene’s reply that Kyu and Dan Kumite were not intended to be the Be All End All of training. Good point. I think it should be followed by two further points: why they are used, and what else is used.

And at some point it may just be your own personalization of Uechi. By that I mean no justification is needed. Someone might still teach these Kumites as a part of their curriculum for the value they see in them, or simply for historical value, or simply because THEY like doing them.

So why are these Kumites, particularly Dan Kumite, such a sore point with some?

Because of two reasons:

1) The schools that only do these drills and claim to teach self defence leads some of us to question that claim.

2) To obtain rank in Uechi, regardless of who set the requirements, you must train in them for a sufficient amount of time to perform them well on a test.

For those of us who question the value of this Kumites and dislike that valuable teaching and class time must be devoted to this material if we want our students tested under the IUKF, then yes this is a sore point. And that is why they are more than just movements.

But then we are really not forced to do anything or train in any manner.

We have simply chosen to comply and we have chosen NOT to go with the alternatives: Either give up testing for rank or give up testing under an association that requires this material.

[Rick Wilson]

As I read my last post my bias is clearly showing through in that the questions I ask of the prearranged Kumites are pointedly asking those who like them to justify themselves.

Sorry for that, feel free to throw any questions back my way in the same manner.

[gmattson]

<GEM> Solid, well stated posts. I'll comment on your questions/comments, in the body of your message:

It seems to me that for a discussion on the prearranged Uechi Kumites there perhaps should be a division of topics.

<GEM> Yes, this would help.

For example, we all know of schools that teach basically: Kata, the prearranged Kumite Kyu, Dan or Kyu Dan (the OKIKUKAI set), prearranged Bunkai (Kanshiwa 2 person, 4 person and Seisan), and sparring (often of a sport orientation). These schools also advertise that they teach self defence. There are those of us who would examine that claim.

<GEM> And rightfully so. However, how do we go about testing the abilities of students attending different types of "self-defense" schools? What qualities of physical conditioning, reflex, timing, speed, technique, etc. do we test to determine which curriculum found in various programs qualify to use the term "self-defense" in their claims?

The "senerio" programs may feel students should be tested using their equipment. The Blauer enthusiasts will argue that their "tests" should be used. The Okinawan/Japanese schools will feel their tests are sufficient proof of ability.

Law enforcement departments will probably demand a different standard, which may or may not be similar to the armed forces' requirements.

Bottom line: The person who lives and long and healthy life is the person, in my estimation, who has learned the best "self-defense". When all the "experts" reach their 90th birthday, I'll listen to their claims!

There are other schools where the prearranged Kumites and Bunkai are simply a small portion of what they teach (often only at testing time).

<GEM> There are many people who simply have a difficult time learning these drills and therefore would like to feel justified in not doing them. There are people who can't remember dates and names and therefore argue that a written/thesis part of the dantest is both unnecessary and Irrelevant. Others may feel that kata is a worthless dance, having absolutely no relationship to fighting. Should we conduct black belt tests based on what students feel is important. . or what a winner of a "toughman" contest tells us is important? I guess the content of a traditional system is what gives program its identity.

There are schools that use the prearranged Kumites but also teach scenario training with some form of protective gear.

<GEM> This is the point that we should focus on. Instead of trying to isolate one element of a program, critics of pre-arranged drills should be looking at dojo's "total" program.

So one topic could be how much of your training are Kyu, Dan, Kyu Dan Kumites?

This would lead to other questions.

If they form a major portion of your training, do you feel they teach you self defence for real situations?

<GEM> Another good question and a valid one. Truthfully. . . I've visited Uechi dojo where the workout content was so rigid and boring, only the most dedicated students survived. At best, the students got a little exercise and some body conditioning. These teachers desperately need training in "how to teach", along with more instruction themselves. However, in many dojo, teachers build content "around" their basic Uechi program. This is the basis for the IUKF teacher program.

For those who do like what the Kumites teach, then specifically, what principles do you feel they teach you?

<GEM> For me. . . the pre-arranged drills are a bridge between kata and free fighting. . . Based on my 40+ years of practicing and teaching them, I believe these drills (properly taught), build useful reactions, timing, coordination and other functions that are useful as a student's training progresses to the next stage of fighting. I've watched students who couldn't walk through a door without stumbling, progress through the ranks with improved skills, based on the basic Uechi program. I'm convinced that the pre-arranged drills have helped in this regard.

Do you supplement it with other drills?

<GEM> Absolutely. A creative teacher will "steal" techniques, drills, methods and philosophy from wherever possible. This is the benefit of living in a free society, where people are able to think and evolve. That is why all sports are performed better today than when created.

I'm late for a meeting, so will continue this later. GEM

How do you feel they express Uechi Ryu? Now this is one that could lead into some interesting discussions because the expression of Uechi Ryu could be very different for everyone.

What do you use to teach the in close fighting principles of Uechi Ryu? (Okay, so this one shows my biases.)

There are other questions that have been discussed before but it is never too late to have another go.

I think we also hit the spot we have hit before where we need to define things up front. For example “what do you feel the purpose of prearranged Kumites is”… This might lead to a different discussion.

A good example of this is Gene’s reply that Kyu and Dan Kumite were not intended to be the Be All End All of training. Good point. I think it should be followed by two further points: why they are used, and what else is used.

And at some point it may just be your own personalization of Uechi. By that I mean no justification is needed. Someone might still teach these Kumites as a part of their curriculum for the value they see in them, or simply for historical value, or simply because THEY like doing them.

So why are these Kumites, particularly Dan Kumite, such a sore point with some?

Because of two reasons:

1) The schools that only do these drills and claim to teach self defence leads some of us to question that claim.

2) To obtain rank in Uechi, regardless of who set the requirements, you must train in them for a sufficient amount of time to perform them well on a test.

For those of us who question the value of this Kumites and dislike that valuable teaching and class time must be devoted to this material if we want our students tested under the IUKF, then yes this is a sore point. And that is why they are more than just movements.

But then we are really not forced to do anything or train in any manner.

We have simply chosen to comply and we have chosen NOT to go with the alternatives: Either give up testing for rank or give up testing under an association that requires this material.

[Bill Glasheen]

On the subject of yakusoku (prearranged) kumite (fighting)... Rick mentioned that SOKE and IUKF do kyu and dan kumite, and that shohei/okikukai have their own.

Sidebar... Calling the Shohei choreography "Yakusoku kumite" is like calling a programming language "APL" (stands for A Programming Language). It's very confusing to those that don't speak the language. But it's prearranged fighting choreography by any other name.

It's also worth mentioning that the Kenyukai people have their own stuff, choreographed I believe by Shinjo Kiyohide.

We in the Mid-Atlantic region are blessed in that we all get along. We regularly get SOKE, Shohei, IUKF, and Kenyukai together at regionals. I have seen all these things. IMHO, there really isn't any difference from one to the next. Sure...you can see a particular teacher's favorite technique in one vs. another, but they all pretty much have all the same merits and flaws discussed above. So far, no matter how much Okinawa tries to make things better, they create the same thing. IMHO.

Food for thought...

- Bill

[Bill Glasheen]

I'd like to share some of my own thoughts...

First, there are three types of kumite (fighting) in the traditional Okinawan style:

* Yakusoku (prearraged) kumite
* Bunkai (analysis) kumite
* Jiyu (freeform) kumite

Any prearranged kumite is designed to be just that. No more, and no less. Whether or not you see merit in doing it is another discussion altogether. Whether you think you need it or not is - in my opinion - somewhat an empty argument, as the same critics will choreograph prearranged kumite "on the spot" to fulfill a specific need. This is how I think that technique works. Throw a (name your technique) at me... To say otherwise is denial.

IMO, one discussion should be about "ideal" yakusoku kumite. In such a discussion, one should entertain the thought of "clearing the table" and starting from scratch. I'm not convinced that IUKF, Kenyukai, and Shohei have disitinguished themselves here. The only REAL advantage one has over another is a particular technique or allegience to a certain group. I have choreographed some of my own stuff, so I have some knowledge base here.

These are points to consider...

1) With Okinawan yakuskoku kumite in general, the attacks aren't realistic. Nobody except a diehard traditionalist trained in the stepping lunge punch is going to attack you the way we are attacked in these exercises. What I would like to see (I attempted to get this started on another thread) is a list of the common attacks we expect to see and want to train for. In this regard, we may have to get into categories. There are street attacks. There are WKF attacks. There are NHB attacks. There are TKD attacks. There are multiple parter scenarios.

I don't lose sleep over this. Every style has this problem. We see this when we walk into aikido schools and they are falling all over the place when attacking. We know that is incestuous, and yet somehow are blind when we come back home. I also see it in Wing Chun, even though I like their fighting. You get really good fighting a WC practitioner, but then nobody attacks you that way...

2) Any author of a yakusoku kumite should be pretty clear about the goal. Better tournament fighter? Policeman? Soldier? WKF competitor?

3) One should be pretty clear what kata techniques one is interpreting in a specific routine. I know I always do this when teaching Kyu and Dan kumite. I don't see that others do the same.

4) Whenever possible, one should choreograph to principles rather than specifics. There should be some degree of flexibility in interpretation, but the overal goal should be clear. Are we attempting to fight outside? Mid-range? Inside? Are we going inside? Stepping off the line? Are we controlling? Destroying?

5) One should consider up front what degree of flexibility will be allowed when doing the routine. The more solid the foundation, the better. The greater the ability to branch off, the better. There's a nice compromise here that incorporates the best of the prearranged and freeform, or the best of the generic vs. stylized.

5) When all is said and done, one should feel like "the style" has been fairly represented.

- Bill

[Van Canna]

Regarding what Kanbun Sensei taught and whether he'd be teaching the same
today, all I can offer are Kanei Sensei's own words about his father

Page 410, UechiRyu Kyohon:

"(Kanbun Sensei) believed that his appreciation to Shuu Sensei was to
preserve his style exactly as he was taught for the next generation.
Therefore, he never created, added, or changed any kata or technique. He
cherished Shuu Sensei's direct techniques and preserved them exactly. He
felt this was the best way to show his appreciation for the training he
received. He believed Shuu Sensei's way was the only way.

What Kanbun Sensei was taught by Shuu Sensei was good enough to keep him
alive through several all-out battles with the Wabodan.

[Bill Glasheen]

"(Kanbun Sensei) believed that his appreciation to Shuu Sensei was to preserve his style exactly as he was taught for the next generation.
Therefore, he never created, added, or changed any kata or technique.

How do we reconcile that with the re-published interview of Uechi Kanbun recently printed in Dragon Times? In it, he (and not his followers) talks about changing the name of the material he was teaching from pangainoon to Uechi Ryu.

Can anyone come up with the quote?

I don't know, Van... I never bought the "1000-year-old forms" argument. I wonder if anyone will ever know what Shuu sensei taught Kanbun. What was fixed and what was freeform? How much was classical, and how much was jazz? I wonder if we will ever be able to satisfy how Kanbun's fighting ability evolved from beginning to end, and how much "individual expression" comes into play.

Nevertheless, I agree with the spirit of your quote. I'm all for preserving the core of what Kanbun taught in his three forms (and "other stuff" that never made it to forms...). All we are talking about here is getting from the forms and techniques to the finished fighter. Ahh but wouldn't that be great if we solved all the bumps in the road for the average student.

Remember the words dreaded by every dad on Christmas Eve - Some assembly required.

Fun stuff to ponder.

- Bill

[gmattson]

How do you feel they express Uechi Ryu? Now this is one that could lead into some interesting discussions because the expression of Uechi Ryu could be very different for everyone.

<GEM> Rick was asking about supplemental drills, etc, so I'm assuming he is wondering how deviating from the basic Uechi curriculum affects Uechi-ryu overall:
Well, I guess if we visited Joe Pomfret's dojo, we would see Uechi-ryu with a grappling emphasis. At Raff's dojo, I'm sure Uechi-ryu would have a Philippino martial art's flair. But both Joe and Raff still focus on their basic Uechi and consider what they do "traditional" Uechi-ryu. (although many "tight asses" might argue otherwise.)

What do you use to teach the in close fighting principles of Uechi Ryu? (Okay, so this one shows my biases.)

<GEM> At the "Hut", we explore many different methods. When a grappler teaches, we focus on elements of Uechi-ryu that can be interpreted as "in-fighting" moves and countermoves. When a knife fighter visits, we perform dan kumite with rubber knives instead of fists. (Ever try this? It will change your perspective of dan kumite and your philosophy of close-in fighting.)

For example “what do you feel the purpose of prearranged Kumites is”… This might lead to a different discussion.

<GEM> It is a tool, that is used by a creative teacher, to build specific body/mind/emotion traits.

I spent the morning playing golf with Darrin Yee while talking about this topic. Darrin has been studying Kungfu from his family since he was 10. He goes to China 2 -3 times a year for training. (Darrin is about 50 years old)

Darrin's first lesson was to take a ball, tied to a string, which was attached to his wrist, throw it in the air and catch it in a small ring held in the palm of Darrin's hand. It took Darrin over a week to accomplish this. His Uncle (teacher) then taught him the next lesson. . . Point being: Darrin's teacher used a simple exercise as a tool. Darrin couldn't see the purpose of it at the time, nor did he see any relationship that exercise had with fighting.

Teachers that use pre-arranged drills should have a purpose in mind while using them as a training tool. Yes, unfortunately, too many teachers just do them as rituals, with no idea why they are practicing or teaching them.

A good example of this is Gene’s reply that Kyu and Dan Kumite were not intended to be the Be All End All of training. Good point. I think it should be followed by two further points: why they are used, and what else is used.

And at some point it may just be your own personalization of Uechi. By that I mean no justification is needed. Someone might still teach these Kumites as a part of their curriculum for the value they see in them, or simply for historical value, or simply because THEY like doing them.

<GEM> Good points again Rick. The reason that today there are a thousand different styles of martial arts is because as teacher begin to "personalize" their systems, they run into problems with seniors, test boards and associations. It is much easier for them to form their own group, do it there own way and not have to answer to anyone. IUKF has addressed this issue by allowing much flexibility in the specialization/interpretation of Uechi-ryu. However, for fraternal, historical reasons, elect to maintain the basic system as a core of our programs.

Since doing this, we have been able to stop most of the fragmentizing of the system while allowing for individual training preferences.

So why are these Kumites, particularly Dan Kumite, such a sore point with some?

Because of two reasons:

1) The schools that only do these drills and claim to teach self defence leads some of us to question that claim.

<GEM> I bet if you were able to survey all the schools in North America that claim to teach self-defense and get every one of the students to honestly state whether they:
a: believed they had acquired in their training a pretty good ability to defend themselves in a fight and. . .

b: Ask all students who actually got into a fight, how they fared and how their training matched up to their expectations, I would bet. . .

That the survey results for both questions would be pretty much the same for all schools!

This would make for a great topic of discussion and a great survey for the future.

2) To obtain rank in Uechi, regardless of who set the requirements, you must train in them for a sufficient amount of time to perform them well on a test.

For those of us who question the value of this Kumites and dislike that valuable teaching and class time must be devoted to this material if we want our students tested under the IUKF, then yes this is a sore point. And that is why they are more than just movements.

<GEM> This is a very personal question that students must answer for themselves. If a student's only reason for studying was for self-defense, then I could ask many more questions, such as: a. Would you give Mike Tyson a black belt in Uechi-ryu because he could probably beat up all the students and teachers in a dojo? b. Are you training your students to fight against clubs, knives, pool cues, etc.?

I'm trying to make a point and not sure if I'm succeeding. Basically, people come to a karate school because they like the instructor's teaching methods, the program, the training or whatever. If the instructor calls it Uechi-ryu, it should comply with minimum standards of what the Uechi world considers to be Uechi-ryu. At some point, if you dilute it too much, it should be called something else... like the other 999 styles are doing.

But then we are really not forced to do anything or train in any manner.

We have simply chosen to comply and we have chosen NOT to go with the alternatives: Either give up testing for rank or give up testing under an association that requires this material

<GEM> The association with the people, the style and training methods are somewhat fraternal in nature. There is so much about what we do that has absolutely nothing to do with self-defense that it is difficult to exactly define Uechi-ryu or any other traditional style. You either enjoy and elect to practice it or you go next door to the style that does things the way you like it done.

Regardless of how we fine-tune Uechi-ryu, there will always be a certain number of people who would prefer to simply walk into a dojo and start free fighting. Others will prefer to just do kata. Each of these students will find justification and statistics to back up their preference.

Each teacher will have to determine what Uechi-ryu means to them and how much they will allow their students to deviate from what they (the teachers) believe the students should know in order to be awarded the various kyu grades. Associations determine the standards for the various levels of black belt. Although not perfect, it has worked pretty well.

.

[Panther]

We've all seen "patty cake kumite"... so what. For beginning students, they have to start somewhere! But, the mark of advancing is evident when things become less specific and more freeform. Watching advanced practitioners do kumite is epipheral! Trying to imitate and emulate those abilities is the challenging road. In that regard, I've been hit by the best and even more surprising, I've gotten in a few shots. That's what happens when the attacks are committed and the defense is not. Fortunately, no real damage was done. I attribute that to the fact that the uke suddenly realized that "damn, that's gonna hurt" at the last nanosecond and pulled the shot as much as possible. After all, even when there's the intention of being committed to be the best uke possible, there's no desire to actually injure your training partners. (I used "injure" intentionally, because sometimes a little "hurt" is good for the ego. ) My point is that much, if not most of the martial arts (no matter the style) is what you make of it. Distinctly avoiding the arguments surrounding those who "claim" to teach "self-defense", but whose students couldn't defend themselves against a pack of tame bunny rabbits. But that does cause another thought in this ramble... The argument can be made that training turns the alright fighter into the good fighter, the good fighter into the great fighter, the great fighter into the phenomenal fighter, and... the wimp into a more confident wimp. IOW, if there is an ingrained aversion to violence (which there is for an extremely large part of the North American population), then no amount of "training" will teach that person to go toe-to-toe with Iron Mike, Gary Khoury, Roy Bedard, the list is endless and does even begin to include fighters who can kick proverbial posterior! Don't misunderstand. A person who is a wimp and trains in the martial arts is better off in an altercation than someone who's never trained, it's just that some people are on the level of Joe and heading into NHB matches and others of us can only admire and applaud that for various reasons. Does that mean that the "others of us" should never do forms, kumite, training? Of course not! But that is reality. And one more thing that I saw mentioned in this thread... Nippon Shorinji Kempo was originally completely tied to religion. I've learned that was changed with in the last 10-20 years, but Doshin So set up the original training facility (which still exists) in Japan as a monestary and to go beyond Nidan, required becoming a monk. Supposedly, Doshin So had brought the art and the religion back from China and started the monestary in Japan using that knowledge.

Take care and be good to each other...

[Rick Wilson]

Bill: Here is the thread I posted on that article:

http://forums.uechi-ryu.com/viewtopic.php?t=8989

George: Thank you for the comments I will takes some time to review them.

As for Uechi with knives one of my students took a bronze medal at a weapons tournament doing Seichin with double knives. You bet I play with them and Uechi.

Thanks.

[f.Channell]

Sensei Mattson brings up a good point about being 90 and still training.
Kumite is good in that it forces you to move at a speed attacking and defending which is largely regulated by your partner. Giving you a great cardio workout.
I advertise Karate classes, I don't even mention self-defense.
If anyone is that serious about self defense, go buy a gun and a big angry dog like Rabesa sensei says in his book.
Karate has helped me in fights, I've never had to fight a 350 pound ticked off gorilla, but I've survived.
Perhaps if the Kumite has given me a little confidence, even if not realistic, well sometimes this is all you need.
If we did Kumite in a more realistic manner, we would leave class with black eyes, bruises, torn acl's, shredded gi's and a hole list of things you'd kick yourself the next day over.
And you'd show up the next class to dwindling students.
I teach the Kumite, actually 5 kumites all together. It's how I was taught, the people stay in my classes obviously because they see some value in what I do. So why deny them what I was given.
I don't personally like the kumite that much, but I pass it along in case I'm a bad judge of what is worthwhile.
f.

[Guest]

Hell man. . . its just movements.
__________________________
I feel like having this printed on a T-shirt GEM. Some times a few of us treat the curriculum like religion and religion has started more conflicts than money. I guess one lesson may be lighten up and enjoy, or as one of the shirts on your site proclaims "Shut up and work out".

Laird, not to worry about what George posted, just respond to the person’s insults with your own.

George does not mean to offend.
__________________________
Thanks Van took me a while, of course George had something to say, but instead of listen I responded in anger and insulted the man. Had I listened to his words, I just might have got his message. I'm not the brightest bulb in the pack some times. Some where along the line I evolved from this silent kid who observed and formulated into this opinionated blow hard who just goes off half cocked the hell with everyone else. I don't know when I became this self centered closed minded individual……….but I see him now…….I'll sort him out.

Its over. . . lets move on. .
________________________
Well it's almost over George! I still owe you a personal apology. I have made some pretty nasty accusations as to your character and motives. I'm sorry to have misunderstood your post and made these public attacks on you. You have never been anything but something we should all aspire.

I have discovered many flaws in my character during this debate and discovered an ego that I thought was in control, boy was I wrong. So I get a wake up call and have some things to work on. I also got to realize how rude insensitive and opinionated I can be, something else to work on. What Sensei Mattson gets out of all this is some horrible public insults and some words of condolence. Does not seem like a great trade to me. Thanks for the wake up call, I owe you George. I can not believe how forgiving and positive you are, I have much to learn. BTW I have deleted my judgmental post attacking your fine character.


But we are passionate in our beliefs and that can cause us to be very forceful in our presentations.
___________________
And we some times forget we all love Uechi and we all want the best for our Uechi. We are all on the same team.

This was a very good exchange and a good lesson for all of us in communication as well as the handling of conflicts on these forums.
____________________
We grow from each other, if we are not here to listen then why post. Many paths lead up the mountain, I have been guilty of mine is the true path, a position I fault others for. I hope we all learned from my faux pas……. it has turned into a positive experience personally. I now have much to work on. Now it's over!

My future posts will attempt to deal with the subject matter in a non-emotional manner. But that will be tommorrow as I have a desk full of paper to shuffle before the sun rises.

Laird

[gmattson]

Looking forward to meeting you one day soon.

Best,
George

[Bill Glasheen]

Laird

You are good people; not to worry. There are many high ranking people among us who will readily insult anyone in public, and never think to apologize. Sadly I see the trait at its worst in the young and gifted - as if it's high fashion. Obviously you show signs of maturity.

Rick

Thanks for digging that up.

So... I love pulling things like this together. Let us ponder these two quotes. First (thanks to Van) from Page 410, UechiRyu Kyohon:

(Kanbun Sensei) believed that his appreciation to Shuu Sensei was to
preserve his style exactly as he was taught for the next generation.
Therefore, he never created, added, or changed any kata or technique.

and then we have an interview (circa 1930s??) published in Dragon Times Volume 22

Mabuni: Sensei, your style is called Pangainuun in Chinese, what does this mean?

Uechi Kanbun: It means that the chu’an-fa kata are extremely quick. Lately instead of calling the style Pangainuun, I have been thinking a little that it might be better writing it Uechi-ryu.

Interesting... While not directly contradicting, these two statements suggest two very different state of affairs.

If I may generalize, I find the Chinese have a charming tendency to exaggerate, and the Japanese/Okinawans a charming tendency to "spin" history (particularly oral) so as to put people (or ideas) in an ideal light.

That's why historians like multiple and primary sources.

- Bill

[Van Canna]

Laird,

Don’t be so hard on yourself. These forums are laden with emotional traps for the passionate at heart, no one is immune.

You have your own beliefs as to training and you should be respected for it just like any other. Also let us not forget that many of your objections to prearranged work come from Maloney sensei’s influence, your original sensei.

Today he called me and we talked about this for an hour. I told him he should write a post on it, but given the current state of affairs here, he chuckled and declined.

Basically he agreed with me that prearranged work is a good early tool to ingrain a beginner with basic defense motion and interception, good for conditioning and confidence to deal with all out shots, but very marginal in developing street defense reactions, explosive weaponry, opponent-engaging mindset and fluid footwork due to its “Frankenstein’s” robotic character.

Maloney’s Kumites are performed in a unique manner that tells the story behind one of the most explosive and effective fighters of Uechi-Ryu ever, with a record of having developed/still developing some of the strongest and deadliest Fighters in Canada, both in Uechi and kickboxing.

Like you, he also used the word “delusional” when making reference to teachers and students believing that the practice of Prearranged work alone is all that is needed to become proficient at self-defense. Really a common sense view. Not intended to offend, just a personal opinion.

I certainly would not send my children to such a sensei.