Ground Fighting

KarateKid · Post by **KarateKid** » Thu Jun 26, 2003 10:20 pm

Is it true that most street fights will end up on the ground within 30 seconds? I read this somewhere but need to find it and verify it. Any help or opinion is appreciated!

TSDguy · Post by **TSDguy** » Fri Jun 27, 2003 12:14 am

They may well go to the ground, but all the figures you find on the internet are unsubstantiated. The 'rumor' about this 'rumor' is that police "fights" were taken into account; but police are TRYING to take the "fight" down as quickly as possible. Of course BJJ schools all claim everything goes to the ground. I wonder if someone like Blauer actually has some real unbiased stats.

Regardless, common sense says its going to the ground eventually.

Karateka · Post by **Karateka** » Fri Jun 27, 2003 1:26 am

I think it's safe to say that the fights that end up on the ground are between people who don't know how to fight standing or want the fight on the ground. I like to fight standing.

Ted Dinwiddie · Post by **Ted Dinwiddie** » Fri Jun 27, 2003 3:34 am

I think it is safe to say that in a street fight, somebody will probably be on the ground in 30 seconds.

Stryke · Post by **Stryke** » Fri Jun 27, 2003 6:11 am

Even most standup guys would hope there opponents on the ground in thirty seconds , statistics ...... be prepared for anything but dont count on anything

Bo Smith · Post by **Bo Smith** » Fri Jun 27, 2003 1:16 pm

Agreed. I want my opponant on the ground in thirty seconds or less; but, that does not necessarily mean that I want to follow him down there. I imagine most real street confrontations are fast, chaotic, and brutal. Why complicate the situation even more by taking it to the ground? I do think it is important to learn the principles of ground fighting. I don't think the jui-jitsu guys have a corner on this market, though. In fact, I think statistics like that are so much marketing hype.

kyushoguy · Post by **kyushoguy** » Fri Jun 27, 2003 2:26 pm

Hi,

I've had a few 'fights' in my time, i've never been taken or taken it to the floor.
Also most if not all 'fights' I've seen, are resolved standing upright.
Depends what you call a fight I suppose.
I think BJJ are influencing this trend to see all fights go to the floor.

KG

Karateka · Post by **Karateka** » Fri Jun 27, 2003 3:42 pm

I think the stats point out people who end up rolling around on the ground...and not really fighting at all.

Bill Glasheen · Post by **Bill Glasheen** » Fri Jun 27, 2003 4:26 pm

I agree the "rumor" is unsubstantiated.

I agree it is marketing for the grapplers.

I agree that you'd better know what to do if you get taken to the ground.

I think it's a very, very bad idea to take a fight (and yourself) to the ground if there is more than one bad guy. Nothing wrong with sending someone to the ground.

I think you should concentrate on what you do best, and know enough about the other guy's art to be able to handle it and bring the game back to your own playing field.

- Bill

RACastanet · Post by **RACastanet** » Fri Jun 27, 2003 5:25 pm

Peyton Quinn, real fighter extraordinaire, documented his experience in real world fights and this might have come form him. I have two of his books but alas, he has no index, so I must sort of page through to see if I can find this info.

Rich

2Green · Post by **2Green** » Sat Jun 28, 2003 5:55 pm

You know what I'd like to see?
A good analysis of how fights actually wind up on the ground (accidentally or on purpose), through pushing, tripping, over-balancing, pulling,throwing, etc, either by attacker or defender.
There must be a limited number of ways it can happen, and appropriate ways of doing it/defending it.

I have my eye on a book called "Chinese Fast Wrestling" which is a system of quick take-downs based on speed and correct approach to the opponent.

I'd love to see this whole ground topic demystified; it seems the current thinking is that Karate is not effective because "real fights go to the ground" where wrestling/grappling "rule".
Personally I think a lot of this is because it's what we see on TV currently, so it's in the public psyche.

NM

TSDguy · Post by **TSDguy** » Sat Jun 28, 2003 7:03 pm

The thing is, being on the ground is as much an equalizer as a weapon. If you're on the ground and he's not (and eventually one or the other of you will be in this position once the fight starts) you're in a whole heap of trouble if you haven't trained that. So in a way it doesn't really matter if the BJJ guys are just hypign their art; you have to learn something from it.

2Green · Post by **2Green** » Sat Jun 28, 2003 7:16 pm

This is what I keep hearing, but no one seems to really know or be able to offer anything specific...just the generalizations you pointed out.
Can anyone offer any specific information about the manner in which a fight "goes to ground"?
Because, bear in mind, LOTS of them DON'T.
NM

RA Miller · Post by **RA Miller** » Sat Jun 28, 2003 10:12 pm

Took me awhile to find this:

http://forums.uechi-ryu.com/viewtopic.p ... sc&start=0

Just for the record, whenever I search for something on the forum I'm greatful for all I've learned here.

Rory

Stryke · Post by **Stryke** » Sat Jun 28, 2003 10:50 pm

Thanks Rory for finding the old post I think your point in that threads the key

Quote

*Very small step from clinch to grapple

what do the percentages really matter ? , we all know it`s larger than a negligable amount yes ? , lets say its only a ten percent chance that a trained standup fighter will end up on the ground , are you now willing to ignore this risk because the roll of the dice favors you ? , bottom line learn some ground game , and how to defend going there and how to react when it doesnt work .

Personally my favourite range is stand up grappling these days , but working a lot at this I realise theres a good chance of going with them if there truly comitted .