I'm curious as to how much sparring gear you and the women and men you train with wear in class. In the past I've worn only a mouthpiece and padded hands. I'm seriously considering (again) getting a caged face shield. I'd like to be more agressive in my training and learn from mistakes, but most people when they think they're hitting my chest end up hitting my nose since I'm so short.
However, others in the school spar more confidently when they're wearing shin pads or forearm pads. Great for them, but those do nothing for me.
Also, does the gear you wear for regular class sparring differ what what you wear during a test, if so, why?
Sparring Gear in class
Moderator: Available
I wear only my underwear & Gi, I use an upper-teeth guard in rare "sparring" situations. (Attacker/defender designated free drills.)
I think wearing padding for training is insane and self-defeating, unless you think you'll be wearing it if attacked.
In my opinion it creates an "armored invulnerability" false sense of confidence, and sets you up for a bad surprise when the real bone meets the other real bone.
I figure if I can become confident defending myself in my undies & white PJ's, it'll be a bonus to have on my Nikes and biking gloves.
I WILL qualify the above by stating that if I were to embark upon the art of sparring, I would equip myself with every available scrap of knowledge and gear made for that pursuit.
That would be the cup, the pads, the booties, the padded helmet, the brain-pad mouthguard, every available drill, class, video and book. And I probably would be studying kickboxing, not Uechi Ryu.
But right now I have a wicked bruise to massage with A-535, and a lesson learned to think about.
NM
I think wearing padding for training is insane and self-defeating, unless you think you'll be wearing it if attacked.
In my opinion it creates an "armored invulnerability" false sense of confidence, and sets you up for a bad surprise when the real bone meets the other real bone.
I figure if I can become confident defending myself in my undies & white PJ's, it'll be a bonus to have on my Nikes and biking gloves.
I WILL qualify the above by stating that if I were to embark upon the art of sparring, I would equip myself with every available scrap of knowledge and gear made for that pursuit.
That would be the cup, the pads, the booties, the padded helmet, the brain-pad mouthguard, every available drill, class, video and book. And I probably would be studying kickboxing, not Uechi Ryu.
But right now I have a wicked bruise to massage with A-535, and a lesson learned to think about.
NM
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jorvik
Hi Dana 
Very good topic.....I've thought about it a lot, generally I don't subscribe to using protective equipment unless I'm doing pad work or sparring full contact.
The best Karate clubs that I have been to always followed a similar format. Exercise, basics, learning new stuff kata,combinations.....bit of light and continuous sparring, then a cool down using the stuff that you started with.
There are people who do like to make hard contact when you spar......I have noticed that they don't like it applied to them
......so that is the general format, if there is a need for protective equipment then they are doing it wrong because 1.you will scare students away 2. It will turn into a battle field 3.It won't benefit the students who most need Karate 4. after a while it will become boring.
Full contact training however should be available to those who want it......but, there are things to remember. Protective equipment will only protect a little bit, it is not a bullet prove vest....you can be hurt,winded, knocked unconscious etc.
Boxers and Thai boxers do not fight full contact all the time, most of the time they hit pads and bags, skip rope,shadow box, do situps and have medicine balls dropped on their stomachs....and spar lightly, nobody wants to ruin a fighter before a crucial fight.
If it's you're own club ( I have the impression that you teach)...think of the message that you are sending to your students. Why do you need protective equipment?....is the karate going to be sooo brutal, do the rest of the club lack control?
one thing that I did think for women's self defence was pads for your arms to practice grabbing attacks......a man has such a strong grip that he can easily bruise a women's foreams when grabbing them, so it makes it difficult to practise these moves on a regular basis...just a few thoughts
Very good topic.....I've thought about it a lot, generally I don't subscribe to using protective equipment unless I'm doing pad work or sparring full contact.
The best Karate clubs that I have been to always followed a similar format. Exercise, basics, learning new stuff kata,combinations.....bit of light and continuous sparring, then a cool down using the stuff that you started with.
There are people who do like to make hard contact when you spar......I have noticed that they don't like it applied to them
......so that is the general format, if there is a need for protective equipment then they are doing it wrong because 1.you will scare students away 2. It will turn into a battle field 3.It won't benefit the students who most need Karate 4. after a while it will become boring.Full contact training however should be available to those who want it......but, there are things to remember. Protective equipment will only protect a little bit, it is not a bullet prove vest....you can be hurt,winded, knocked unconscious etc.
Boxers and Thai boxers do not fight full contact all the time, most of the time they hit pads and bags, skip rope,shadow box, do situps and have medicine balls dropped on their stomachs....and spar lightly, nobody wants to ruin a fighter before a crucial fight.
If it's you're own club ( I have the impression that you teach)...think of the message that you are sending to your students. Why do you need protective equipment?....is the karate going to be sooo brutal, do the rest of the club lack control?
one thing that I did think for women's self defence was pads for your arms to practice grabbing attacks......a man has such a strong grip that he can easily bruise a women's foreams when grabbing them, so it makes it difficult to practise these moves on a regular basis...just a few thoughts
Dana,
Glad you're talking about this! Was just looking at the total head covering protection with the clear lexan face shield. I haven't tried it, but it looks intriguing.
Have tried a boxing style head gear with a single steel bar running horizontal across the face at about nose level. For straight on punches it works great, not so great for upper cuts.
Getting damaged in the dojo doesn't help you for the street. I say wear protection for sparring. Everything you can get your hands on; knee pads, shin pads, body armor, foot and head gear, and particularly good high quality gloves. Something in which the padding isn't too firm.
Too hard of gloves will lead to concussions. Not bad for the puncher, but as I seem to do a lot of blocking with my head,... "I no from wich I spoak."
My 2 cents.
nick
Glad you're talking about this! Was just looking at the total head covering protection with the clear lexan face shield. I haven't tried it, but it looks intriguing.
Have tried a boxing style head gear with a single steel bar running horizontal across the face at about nose level. For straight on punches it works great, not so great for upper cuts.
Getting damaged in the dojo doesn't help you for the street. I say wear protection for sparring. Everything you can get your hands on; knee pads, shin pads, body armor, foot and head gear, and particularly good high quality gloves. Something in which the padding isn't too firm.
Too hard of gloves will lead to concussions. Not bad for the puncher, but as I seem to do a lot of blocking with my head,... "I no from wich I spoak."
My 2 cents.
nick
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Guest
blocking with your nose *****!
Hey Nick! My sparring partner is real interested in the lexan shield as well. It's got something to do with his habit of blocking with his rather large and durable nose. 
Might be a good move for him, then again he might never solve the problem and depend on the face shield to stop the blows. There are pro's and cons to wearing saftey gear.
I was most perplexed when I first returned to Uechi and we were using gear in tournaments. I've gone full circle over the years and now advocate protective gear.I also advocate landing the knees elbows and targeting the head and neck.So if your going to step up your contact, gear is a good thing.
The old saying is you will fight as you train. I fiquire if train to pull your punches that's what you will do. If you train to hit with some penetrating strikes against padded opponents then at least you'll get the distance down.
I'm all for iron shirt training but figuire in the mean time it's a good exercise to go full tilt and protect the body with something store bought cause it talkes a few decades to really develop some body armour.I'm not willing to wait that long, I'm keen to test my Uechi now and learn what ever lessons the contact brings.
Here's a really good article from the old Viewpoint forum that debates this issue.
http://uechi-ryu.com/oldsite/viewpoint/ ... debate.htm
Looking back at the old days, we wore a cup and sometimes a mouth guard. But we didn't land hand strikes to the head and we threw no knees or elbows. I much prefer landing more of the techniques and welcome the pads cause they let me land these techniques against something more difficult than a heavy bag.
Laird
Might be a good move for him, then again he might never solve the problem and depend on the face shield to stop the blows. There are pro's and cons to wearing saftey gear.I was most perplexed when I first returned to Uechi and we were using gear in tournaments. I've gone full circle over the years and now advocate protective gear.I also advocate landing the knees elbows and targeting the head and neck.So if your going to step up your contact, gear is a good thing.
The old saying is you will fight as you train. I fiquire if train to pull your punches that's what you will do. If you train to hit with some penetrating strikes against padded opponents then at least you'll get the distance down.
I'm all for iron shirt training but figuire in the mean time it's a good exercise to go full tilt and protect the body with something store bought cause it talkes a few decades to really develop some body armour.I'm not willing to wait that long, I'm keen to test my Uechi now and learn what ever lessons the contact brings.
Here's a really good article from the old Viewpoint forum that debates this issue.
http://uechi-ryu.com/oldsite/viewpoint/ ... debate.htm
Looking back at the old days, we wore a cup and sometimes a mouth guard. But we didn't land hand strikes to the head and we threw no knees or elbows. I much prefer landing more of the techniques and welcome the pads cause they let me land these techniques against something more difficult than a heavy bag.
Laird
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Stryke
Occasionally gloves and mouth guards but often nothing .... we do encourage the women to always wear chest guards , having said that we have boxing head gear etc , but seldom is it used , , I personally dislike wearing any head gear , could be a great way to prepare for tunnel vision though ... hmmmm
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Bill Glasheen
- Posts: 17299
- Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
- Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY
Standard gear for "sparring."
* Mouthpiece
* Groin cup for the men
* Head gear (mostly to prevent concussions from falls on a hard floor.
* Hand pads.
Right now, we don't use foot gear. Still considering it.
I'm also considering chest protectors for the kids. That avoids the risk of commotio cordis.
We have the Blauer suits for scenario training, but rarely pull them out. They are hot as hades.
I will very likely follow through and require the use of eye protection when doing (wooden) knife and stick work. Eye injuries aren't something to fool around with. The other alternative is to use some of the "soft" weapons that are now more readily available. But... I'm still thinking about requiring the eyeware. Rich today still has two eyes because he was wearing glasses when one of the Marines he was training with got a little friskly. He still has the scratch on the lens to prove it.
Lab goggles and nonprescription glasses are easy to get these days, and the shops that sell glasses are now selling these prescription goggles for kids and adults (with or without correction). I've already gotten a pair for my son.
- Bill
* Mouthpiece
* Groin cup for the men
* Head gear (mostly to prevent concussions from falls on a hard floor.
* Hand pads.
Right now, we don't use foot gear. Still considering it.
I'm also considering chest protectors for the kids. That avoids the risk of commotio cordis.
We have the Blauer suits for scenario training, but rarely pull them out. They are hot as hades.
I will very likely follow through and require the use of eye protection when doing (wooden) knife and stick work. Eye injuries aren't something to fool around with. The other alternative is to use some of the "soft" weapons that are now more readily available. But... I'm still thinking about requiring the eyeware. Rich today still has two eyes because he was wearing glasses when one of the Marines he was training with got a little friskly. He still has the scratch on the lens to prove it.
Lab goggles and nonprescription glasses are easy to get these days, and the shops that sell glasses are now selling these prescription goggles for kids and adults (with or without correction). I've already gotten a pair for my son.
- Bill
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jorvik
I think that we need to clarify just what we mean by " sparring" 
There are many types of sparring, one step two step, freestyle.full contact.
My own definition is continuous light movement, shadow boxing with an opponent....you don't try to block all of their shots and the same holds true visa versa, a friendly and enjoyable pastime
The one step jiu kumite....can get nasty ( mainly down to lack of control, sometimes deliberate......in competitions some people would prefer to be disqualified, than loose)....the type that I mean though, I don't think that you need any protection. If you're going out to definitely make contact then you most certainly need some protection.....the best one I know is to use very big boxing gloves.with "no punch in them".
One thing that I have noticed in Uechi Dojo in my country is there are a lot of people who just don't know how to spar......they use sparring as a conditioning exercise and make quite hard contact to the body.....which to my mind is idiotic as it detracts from what sparring teaches, i.e. to move well when you fight,
Interesting thought that just occured after a year in Karate, I've heard people told that they are not ready for a brown belt or whatever.....yet in a boxing gym, after a year most of the boxers could fight an accomplished black belt..........food for thought
There are many types of sparring, one step two step, freestyle.full contact.
My own definition is continuous light movement, shadow boxing with an opponent....you don't try to block all of their shots and the same holds true visa versa, a friendly and enjoyable pastime
The one step jiu kumite....can get nasty ( mainly down to lack of control, sometimes deliberate......in competitions some people would prefer to be disqualified, than loose)....the type that I mean though, I don't think that you need any protection. If you're going out to definitely make contact then you most certainly need some protection.....the best one I know is to use very big boxing gloves.with "no punch in them".
One thing that I have noticed in Uechi Dojo in my country is there are a lot of people who just don't know how to spar......they use sparring as a conditioning exercise and make quite hard contact to the body.....which to my mind is idiotic as it detracts from what sparring teaches, i.e. to move well when you fight,
Interesting thought that just occured after a year in Karate, I've heard people told that they are not ready for a brown belt or whatever.....yet in a boxing gym, after a year most of the boxers could fight an accomplished black belt..........food for thought
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Mary Chant
- Posts: 92
- Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2002 6:01 am
- Location: Boise, ID, USA
I use a mouth piece, shin gurards and gloves. All in our school wear a mouth piece (we all share one--just kidding) and gloves. Most of us use the type of gloves where the fingers can come through for grabs. We do have a veterinary surgeon who opts for complete hand coverage. Some also opt to wear foot protection. I assume all the men wear cups.
Mary Chant
Mary Chant
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Dana Sheets
- Posts: 2715
- Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2002 6:01 am
http://www.kwonusa.com/kwon/usa/safety/ ... fo=details
This is the headgear I'm considering. I like the idea that the cage can come off.
$69.99 plus shipping.
Jackie Olsen turned me onto Kwon's stuff. I have to say that alot of it looks to be good quality. Anyone else have experience using it?
Dana
This is the headgear I'm considering. I like the idea that the cage can come off.
$69.99 plus shipping.
Jackie Olsen turned me onto Kwon's stuff. I have to say that alot of it looks to be good quality. Anyone else have experience using it?
Dana
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Bill Glasheen
- Posts: 17299
- Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
- Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY
My gis (the crossover kind) come from Kwon. High quality at a price. Germany-based company.
- Bill
- Self Defense UniformSELF DEFENSE Uniform
Extremely tough heavy-duty 12oz material made of 100% cotton. This suit has been designed to satisfy the requirements of self defense training and competition. Traditionally cut jacket with reinforced chest, shoulders and lapel. Multiple stitching on sleeves and pant legs guarantee added strength. Pants feature reinforced knee area and elastic waistband with additional drawstring. Kick gusset provides excellent freedom of movement. The unique price effectiveness of this extraordinary uniform makes it one of our bestsellers. Set consists of jacket and pants. Belt not included.
- Bill
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Dana Sheets
- Posts: 2715
- Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2002 6:01 am
In my dojo there are two kinds, point and continuous.I think that we need to clarify just what we mean by " sparring"
Point sparring is two people going for first solid, controlled contact - action is stopped by referee upon contact and the two people line up to go at it again.
(We do this rarely)
Continuous:
Anywhere from 2-6 minute rounds with a partner. This is a partnership exercise. Goal is to use Uechi-Ryu techniques get in solid body shots and light/touch contact to the head/face only. The back is off limits. Controlled sweeps are allowed as are very controlled takedowns but throwns are not encouraged because we only train on hard wood and have no mats.
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Jackie Olsen
- Posts: 619
- Joined: Fri Sep 18, 1998 6:01 am
- Contact:
Sparring: I wear padded gloves in class.
Testing: Padded GLoves & Mouthpiece that often shoots out of my mouth (gag reflex)
RE KWON: They have a US office right here in West Michigan (Grand Rapids). If you own a dojo, you can set up an account with them (call the US office) & they will drop ship to you at REDUCED prices. I can attest to their quality and their gis are a good fit for women because they are wider in the hips than Century which tends to be narrow.
Jackie
Testing: Padded GLoves & Mouthpiece that often shoots out of my mouth (gag reflex)
RE KWON: They have a US office right here in West Michigan (Grand Rapids). If you own a dojo, you can set up an account with them (call the US office) & they will drop ship to you at REDUCED prices. I can attest to their quality and their gis are a good fit for women because they are wider in the hips than Century which tends to be narrow.
Jackie
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jorvik
Dana
Quote
" Anywhere from 2-6 minute rounds with a partner. This is a partnership exercise. Goal is to use Uechi-Ryu techniques get in solid body shots and light/touch contact to the head/face only. The back is off limits. Controlled sweeps are allowed as are very controlled takedowns but throwns are not encouraged because we only train on hard wood and have no mats."
I don't agree with solid body shots, quite a few years ago I went to a local Uechi dojo and ended up sparring with a really " cut" bodybuilder....I was wearing a white belt, and he was wearing a black belt with so many tags, half way through sparring he let go with a solid kick to my stomach which knocked me back a couple of feet...so I retaliated ( I'll be honest I was terrified, he was bigger, he was known at the club..but I just didn't like the attitude....I've got a bit of madness in me....and I was a lot younger ).....so what I did was kicked him to the thigh with a thai shin kick.....I'd seen it in a book, but never seen it done....he literally turned the colour of boiled excrement. It was a couple of years later before I learned from my then sensei ( and friend) just how painful that kick was .it hurts like hell 
.........I showed this poor fool that everyone deserves respect.....but I don't like that type of ma's......I mean you cannot expect a 7 stone woman to take solid shots from a well built man......and besides the blows lack skill they tend to be done like body conditioning, I don't think it is beneficial in any sense
Quote
" Anywhere from 2-6 minute rounds with a partner. This is a partnership exercise. Goal is to use Uechi-Ryu techniques get in solid body shots and light/touch contact to the head/face only. The back is off limits. Controlled sweeps are allowed as are very controlled takedowns but throwns are not encouraged because we only train on hard wood and have no mats."
I don't agree with solid body shots, quite a few years ago I went to a local Uechi dojo and ended up sparring with a really " cut" bodybuilder....I was wearing a white belt, and he was wearing a black belt with so many tags, half way through sparring he let go with a solid kick to my stomach which knocked me back a couple of feet...so I retaliated ( I'll be honest I was terrified, he was bigger, he was known at the club..but I just didn't like the attitude....I've got a bit of madness in me....and I was a lot younger
).....so what I did was kicked him to the thigh with a thai shin kick.....I'd seen it in a book, but never seen it done....he literally turned the colour of boiled excrement. It was a couple of years later before I learned from my then sensei ( and friend) just how painful that kick was .it hurts like hell .........I showed this poor fool that everyone deserves respect.....but I don't like that type of ma's......I mean you cannot expect a 7 stone woman to take solid shots from a well built man......and besides the blows lack skill they tend to be done like body conditioning, I don't think it is beneficial in any sense