You may wonder why rapists and pedophiles have a very high risk of spontaneous combustion (reference to the movie This is Spinal Tap) when they enter prison.
Read very, very carefully.
Geoghan's death investigated; autopsy scheduled for priest
Can you see the importance of removing child molesters from society ASAP? Can you see the damage left in their wake? The ripple effect?
Fascinating...
The Catholic Church deserves the multimillion dollar lawsuits (imagine ME saying that...) for shuttling these perverts from parish to parish. I've seen it happen first hand. It's absolutely inexcusable.
I am not justifying bad behavior. I am only attempting to illustrate what makes people snap. In order to understand those that may do us harm, we must be able to get inside their heads. In my mind, the observed prison behavior is perfectly predictable and logical - albeit horrific.
We should not be surprised.
- Bill
Why did Johnny kill?
Moderator: Available
-
Bill Glasheen
- Posts: 17299
- Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
- Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY
-
Gene DeMambro
- Posts: 1684
- Joined: Sat Dec 12, 1998 6:01 am
- Location: Weymouth, MA US of A
What gets me is why this is such BIG news. Fox News and CNN broke into their regularly scheduled newscasts to break this story? Is this man and his murder that important? I can understand being in the front page of The Boston Globe, but it baffles me why it makes top news nationally. It even pushed the California recall from top billing. Must have been a slow news day.
There will be statements made by some pinhead, that says in effect that Geoghan got what he deserved. But the "vigilante" in this case was a convicted murderer, car jacker and gay basher, who is a neo-nazi who plead guilty of sending fake anthrax to lawyers with Jewish sounding names. I'd really like people to say this guy was a hero.
This evening, Fox News' John Gibson interviewed two alleged victims of John Geoghan. He kept trying to get them to say that Geoghan got what he deserved. But both men refused, saying that true justice would have been Geoghan forced to confront his victims in court, both criminally and civilly, and that he still had penance still to do on Earth. One even expressed severe concern over the prison's ability to protect those in their custody.
Another alleged victim once said on Sunday that no matter how you look at this case, it's tragic.
At least the Red Sox won today...
Gene
There will be statements made by some pinhead, that says in effect that Geoghan got what he deserved. But the "vigilante" in this case was a convicted murderer, car jacker and gay basher, who is a neo-nazi who plead guilty of sending fake anthrax to lawyers with Jewish sounding names. I'd really like people to say this guy was a hero.
This evening, Fox News' John Gibson interviewed two alleged victims of John Geoghan. He kept trying to get them to say that Geoghan got what he deserved. But both men refused, saying that true justice would have been Geoghan forced to confront his victims in court, both criminally and civilly, and that he still had penance still to do on Earth. One even expressed severe concern over the prison's ability to protect those in their custody.
Another alleged victim once said on Sunday that no matter how you look at this case, it's tragic.
At least the Red Sox won today...
Gene
-
Guest
I agree Bill; totally predictable the child molester would get his if the population in prison had a chance to get at him. All societies have their rules. Molesting children seems to be unforgiven in all of them. There is a code inside and that code makes sexual offenders targets for execution.
There is more than the odd guy inside who has been subject to sexual abuse, and there are a lot of parents in prison who love their children. A child molester in prison is fair game........Don't do the crime if you can't do the time.
Personally I don't think these scum should get to go to prison, parents should be allowed to execute them.
So some Homo phobic storm trooper did the priest.......he was motivated.....Could have been someone's dad sticking him.....Doesn't matter....this man was in a position of trust and changed the lives of 150 people when they were children. He got what he deserved, and he didn't suffer for a lifetime like most of his victims......he got off easy as far as I'm concerned.
I really hate to see my tax dollars go providing extra security for this garbage. I'd rather we took the garbage out than pay to store it.
As far as I'm concerned if DNA say's you messed with a child...the hell with the trial......execute them on the spot.
I don't care if they like boys or girls.......if they mess with kids kill them before they can offend again.
And the only horrific detail inside was some other con of questionable value to society is going to go with out socks for a few days. Then again maybe some one in purchasing will eliminate spandex in the blend. And no other offender will have to go barefoot again.
I figure a priest can understand the concept of you reap what you sow......nice to see him harvest his crop!
Laird
There is more than the odd guy inside who has been subject to sexual abuse, and there are a lot of parents in prison who love their children. A child molester in prison is fair game........Don't do the crime if you can't do the time.
Personally I don't think these scum should get to go to prison, parents should be allowed to execute them.
So some Homo phobic storm trooper did the priest.......he was motivated.....Could have been someone's dad sticking him.....Doesn't matter....this man was in a position of trust and changed the lives of 150 people when they were children. He got what he deserved, and he didn't suffer for a lifetime like most of his victims......he got off easy as far as I'm concerned.
I really hate to see my tax dollars go providing extra security for this garbage. I'd rather we took the garbage out than pay to store it.
As far as I'm concerned if DNA say's you messed with a child...the hell with the trial......execute them on the spot.
I don't care if they like boys or girls.......if they mess with kids kill them before they can offend again.
And the only horrific detail inside was some other con of questionable value to society is going to go with out socks for a few days. Then again maybe some one in purchasing will eliminate spandex in the blend. And no other offender will have to go barefoot again.
I figure a priest can understand the concept of you reap what you sow......nice to see him harvest his crop!
Laird
-
Bill Glasheen
- Posts: 17299
- Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
- Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY
These kinds of situations are ripe for strong feelings.
Gene, it's not surprising to me that victims felt the way they did. In a way, it's another part of the tragedy. These predators often do their dirty deeds by befriending the vulnerable, and giving them love they weren't getting elsewhere. And then they betray that trust. And if the vulnerable weren't already screwed up... No way the victims here would be screaming for execution. It isn't in their nature, and this is part of the pathology of the predator. This is what allowed this piece of excrement to ruin lives for so long.
Note - I am not necessarily endorsing what happened. I'm only saying (like with the U.S. invading Iraq) that it was perfectly predictable behavior given the nature of humanity. Personally I have mixed feelings. I can remember once discussing this issue with my dad. I said "You know...if anyone molested my son, I think I would feel a need to exterminate them." "No," he said, "that's what grandfathers are for. You need to be around to raise him." Yes, I said that. Yes, he said that. Truth be told, I don't know what I'd do under the circumstances. But to all, I recommend you read Grisham's first (and frankly best) book A Time to Kill. Fascinating read.
But I think folks are missing something here...
What percentage of people out there (do you believe) have been molested (by same or different sex) in their childhood? I think the number is fairly high - much higher than it should be anyhow.
What makes a sociopath like this Neonazi, gay bashing, white supremist? To some extent, these folks are missing a card or two. To some extent, some of these folks are lacking in their ability to function and maneuver in society, and resent seeing others around them succeed (sometimes with a little social help). The white supremist movement is largely the feeble cry of white trash (IMNSHO).
To some extent, it's natural for the human species to dislike those that are "different" or "from a different genetic lineage." It just happens, and the behavior perpetuates itself.
And getting to the final set of questions... What's the rate of childhood abuse for members of the prison population vs. those on the outside? I'm thinking it's higher. And for this particular gay bashing whacko, what's the likelihood that this man was abused in his childhood? What's the likelihood that Father Geghan personified the hate that an unstable abuse victim holds inside for a lifetime? If I were a betting man...
Abuse begats abuse. The ugly cycle repeats itself, again and again.
- Bill
Gene, it's not surprising to me that victims felt the way they did. In a way, it's another part of the tragedy. These predators often do their dirty deeds by befriending the vulnerable, and giving them love they weren't getting elsewhere. And then they betray that trust. And if the vulnerable weren't already screwed up... No way the victims here would be screaming for execution. It isn't in their nature, and this is part of the pathology of the predator. This is what allowed this piece of excrement to ruin lives for so long.
Note - I am not necessarily endorsing what happened. I'm only saying (like with the U.S. invading Iraq) that it was perfectly predictable behavior given the nature of humanity. Personally I have mixed feelings. I can remember once discussing this issue with my dad. I said "You know...if anyone molested my son, I think I would feel a need to exterminate them." "No," he said, "that's what grandfathers are for. You need to be around to raise him." Yes, I said that. Yes, he said that. Truth be told, I don't know what I'd do under the circumstances. But to all, I recommend you read Grisham's first (and frankly best) book A Time to Kill. Fascinating read.
But I think folks are missing something here...
What percentage of people out there (do you believe) have been molested (by same or different sex) in their childhood? I think the number is fairly high - much higher than it should be anyhow.
What makes a sociopath like this Neonazi, gay bashing, white supremist? To some extent, these folks are missing a card or two. To some extent, some of these folks are lacking in their ability to function and maneuver in society, and resent seeing others around them succeed (sometimes with a little social help). The white supremist movement is largely the feeble cry of white trash (IMNSHO).
To some extent, it's natural for the human species to dislike those that are "different" or "from a different genetic lineage." It just happens, and the behavior perpetuates itself.
And getting to the final set of questions... What's the rate of childhood abuse for members of the prison population vs. those on the outside? I'm thinking it's higher. And for this particular gay bashing whacko, what's the likelihood that this man was abused in his childhood? What's the likelihood that Father Geghan personified the hate that an unstable abuse victim holds inside for a lifetime? If I were a betting man...
Abuse begats abuse. The ugly cycle repeats itself, again and again.
- Bill
There is a difference between Geoghan's "getting what he deserved" (i.e., the kind of fear, helplessness, panic, etc. that he created in his own victims), and society's getting what it cannot tolerate (a prison system out of control). Innocent people sometimes go to prison, and people guilty of relatively minor crimes, or crimes about which "honest" citizens might disagree. We either have a court system, or we do not. Truth in sentencing should work both ways: on the one hand, people should serve real sentences, on the other, they should not serve extra-legal sentences (e.g, being brutalized or killed).
-
f.Channell
- Posts: 3541
- Joined: Thu Oct 21, 1999 6:01 am
- Location: Valhalla
Bill,
I've never met your dad but I like him already!!
One of the things we have to think of that according to the stats I've read there is a sexual predator (many of them child molestors) for each square mile in the United States. In many cases they are a relative or friend of the family. In cases such as the Catholic priests they "were" highly trusted members of society. I bet in many of these cases they were not believed, if they had the courage to tell their parents in the first place.
From what my friends who were students in Catholic school have told me, there were plenty of these guys around.
Parents have to be constantly aware of who they trust, I for one have never had a baby sitter, perhaps I am paranoid, but my kids have been safe.
I train all of my students in stranger scenarios, molestation prevention is partially covered by this, but I wish I could do more to teach them.
Child molestors in my opinion are as evil is an individual can get, even beyond serial killers in many cases, such as the murdered scum Geoghan.
Keep in mind however, some of these men are innocent, and do not have the financial wealth to protect themselves with good attornies. A man accused 100+ times however, it's hard to believe justice hasn't been served.
F.
I've never met your dad but I like him already!!
One of the things we have to think of that according to the stats I've read there is a sexual predator (many of them child molestors) for each square mile in the United States. In many cases they are a relative or friend of the family. In cases such as the Catholic priests they "were" highly trusted members of society. I bet in many of these cases they were not believed, if they had the courage to tell their parents in the first place.
From what my friends who were students in Catholic school have told me, there were plenty of these guys around.
Parents have to be constantly aware of who they trust, I for one have never had a baby sitter, perhaps I am paranoid, but my kids have been safe.
I train all of my students in stranger scenarios, molestation prevention is partially covered by this, but I wish I could do more to teach them.
Child molestors in my opinion are as evil is an individual can get, even beyond serial killers in many cases, such as the murdered scum Geoghan.
Keep in mind however, some of these men are innocent, and do not have the financial wealth to protect themselves with good attornies. A man accused 100+ times however, it's hard to believe justice hasn't been served.
F.
Sans Peur Ne Obliviscaris
www.hinghamkarate.com
www.hinghamkarate.com
-
benzocaine
- Posts: 2107
- Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2003 12:20 pm
- Location: St. Thomas
Bill, From what I understand prisoners will do things like this to gain the respect of other convicts. It's like a badge of honor to do a "hit" child molestors or rapists. I wonder if it even occured to him he could spend the rest of his life in solitary confinement? Probably not. Regardless.... I don't like either of them.
-
Guest
Society sets it's own rules
It's a mistake to try and understand what happens inside based on the values of those on the outside. The social rules are not the same. The society inside and the society outside are governed by different standards. Sexual offenders and rats are fair game.... Swarming is taboo.
From the mouth of an acquaintance who's done a wee bit of time. " We both got two weeks in solitary. He said to me I could do this standing on my head I've only got two months left. After we got out I gave him two months in the hospital. You don't rub a short stretch in someone's face when they are looking at a five. The sob deserved what he got." Rules most of us are not aware of.....The rules may be made up as they go along.
Point is those prisons are full of rapists murders thieves and muggers. They need a set of rules a code because they need to live together. You can only watch and govern a populace so long sooner or latter they will fill in the gaps. They will self regulate. Part of self-regulation involves targeting the most vilified the sexual offender.
The issue is not that a fascist took out the priest.... Given the chance most of the prison population would have done the deed. Society does not want these sexual offenders walking among us...apparently the society on the inside feels the same way.
Laird
From the mouth of an acquaintance who's done a wee bit of time. " We both got two weeks in solitary. He said to me I could do this standing on my head I've only got two months left. After we got out I gave him two months in the hospital. You don't rub a short stretch in someone's face when they are looking at a five. The sob deserved what he got." Rules most of us are not aware of.....The rules may be made up as they go along.
Point is those prisons are full of rapists murders thieves and muggers. They need a set of rules a code because they need to live together. You can only watch and govern a populace so long sooner or latter they will fill in the gaps. They will self regulate. Part of self-regulation involves targeting the most vilified the sexual offender.
The issue is not that a fascist took out the priest.... Given the chance most of the prison population would have done the deed. Society does not want these sexual offenders walking among us...apparently the society on the inside feels the same way.
Laird
Last edited by Guest on Fri Aug 29, 2003 12:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
I figure this is common knowledge, but then sometimes I'm reminded that it isn't. Forgive me if I bore.
--Gay men like other gay men.
--Homosexuality is not an illness, discounting the few that are rendered unstable by their inability to handle their innate sexuality
--Most men that abuse boys are heterosexual (and I am unaware of data that suggests that gays or lesbians molest anymore than heterosexuals--there's a huge definitional and data bias problem in trying to find out).
--They like prepubescent children because they're girlish
--There is no evidence (other than those opinions put forward by certain conservative / religious groups) that gays and lesbians are inferior parents
--Every child brought into a single-gender family is deeply wanted, because it's a major hassle to either adopt one or conceive one in those circumstances.
This is less politically correct but it's also just reality:
--A great many children have sex when they are underage and cherish the memories.
--A lot of children have sex with each other or older people willingly and a lot of them initiate it.
--If we killed everyone that fit the formal definitions for molesting a child, we wouldn't have enough adults to raise them.
--Of course, the significance of the above three depends on how you define "sex," "child," and "underage." Afterall, we used to marry kids off in their early teens to older individuals they may not even have known.
--Of course, there are a lot who are scarred too--not discounting that. I'm just saying not everyone who's had sex with a "child" is a "monster." Some are held in very high regard by their "victims" and sometimes the couple gets married.
This part is opinion:
--Theological systems that describe most every form of sexuality as an abomination tend to attract people who are struggling with either normal or abnormal desires, often with harmful results for everyone involved. Disclaimer: I just read from the old testament at a Catholic wedding, of an ex, no less; I have a bunch of Catholic friends as well, the majority of them happen to be gay, and bunch of orthodox Jewish friends, none of which are gay to my knowledge.
Disclaimer 2: I am not implying that all or a majority or a lot of the people who are drawn to any religion fit the above description. Just some.
--If someone is mentally ill and drawn to children, their culpability may be less than that of the fully able-minded individuals who facilitated the majority of the their crimes, and who are currently sitting pretty.
--All that is required for evil to flourish is for good (wo)men to do nothing.
--Gay men like other gay men.
--Homosexuality is not an illness, discounting the few that are rendered unstable by their inability to handle their innate sexuality
--Most men that abuse boys are heterosexual (and I am unaware of data that suggests that gays or lesbians molest anymore than heterosexuals--there's a huge definitional and data bias problem in trying to find out).
--They like prepubescent children because they're girlish
--There is no evidence (other than those opinions put forward by certain conservative / religious groups) that gays and lesbians are inferior parents
--Every child brought into a single-gender family is deeply wanted, because it's a major hassle to either adopt one or conceive one in those circumstances.
This is less politically correct but it's also just reality:
--A great many children have sex when they are underage and cherish the memories.
--A lot of children have sex with each other or older people willingly and a lot of them initiate it.
--If we killed everyone that fit the formal definitions for molesting a child, we wouldn't have enough adults to raise them.
--Of course, the significance of the above three depends on how you define "sex," "child," and "underage." Afterall, we used to marry kids off in their early teens to older individuals they may not even have known.
--Of course, there are a lot who are scarred too--not discounting that. I'm just saying not everyone who's had sex with a "child" is a "monster." Some are held in very high regard by their "victims" and sometimes the couple gets married.
This part is opinion:
--Theological systems that describe most every form of sexuality as an abomination tend to attract people who are struggling with either normal or abnormal desires, often with harmful results for everyone involved. Disclaimer: I just read from the old testament at a Catholic wedding, of an ex, no less; I have a bunch of Catholic friends as well, the majority of them happen to be gay, and bunch of orthodox Jewish friends, none of which are gay to my knowledge.
Disclaimer 2: I am not implying that all or a majority or a lot of the people who are drawn to any religion fit the above description. Just some.
--If someone is mentally ill and drawn to children, their culpability may be less than that of the fully able-minded individuals who facilitated the majority of the their crimes, and who are currently sitting pretty.
--All that is required for evil to flourish is for good (wo)men to do nothing.
--Ian
-
Guest
Say it ain't so!
NP Ian but this is not a homosexual rights issue this is a person in position of trust exploiting young children. Not sure if it was boys or girls.....Don't care...he abused his position when he abused these kids.IJ wrote:Forgive me if I bore.
I don't see anyone taking this as homosexuality and pedophilia are one in the same. No need to defend you life style...hell in Canada were working towards equal rights for all sexual orientation...except for the deviant scum who harm children.
And it's still against the law Ian and the adults should go to prison and hopefully they get socks tied around their necks as well cause they are not worthy of living in a world that has innocent children if they can not control their urges. Then off with their gonads or off with their head...hmmm same thing I guess.A lot of children have sex with each other or older people willingly and a lot of them initiate it.
Do you have data to support that...hell it doesn't matter bigger families are fine by me lets kill them all off.If we killed everyone that fit the formal definitions for molesting a child, we wouldn't have enough adults to raise them.
Open season...where do I get my tags...give me lots of them.
I am the laws the law. Make your own rules you go to the big house...break the rules in the big house and you die...works for me!Of course, there are lots who are scarred too--not discounting that. I'm just saying not everyone who's had sex with a "child" is a "monster."
Having sex with 150 kids deserves death...as was the case for the good man of the cloth . Claiming insanity for not riding herd on your desires does not wash. Rape is rape it's about taking what you want . For an adult to do this to a child...I want society to remove them.If someone is mentally ill and drawn to children, their culpability may be less than that of the fully able-minded individuals who facilitated the majority of the there crimes, and who are currently sitting pretty.
Absolutely Ian a lot of people ignored the harm the priest was suffering upon the children. They look the other way; they buried their heads in the sand. This evil man could not have hurt so many without others looking away and denying it. A lesson for all parents.All that is required for evil to flourish is for good (wo)men to do nothing.
I can abide by many beliefs, religion and sexual orientation...to each their own. But I hope you are not attempting to justify ones right to have sex with children Ian. Tell me I misunderstood your post. Tell me that you're not saying the laws wrong; tell me you don't suggest condoning this activity. Please clarify your position,
Laird
-
Stryke
Quote
Of course, there are lots who are scarred too--not discounting that. I'm just saying not everyone who's had sex with a "child" is a "monster."
** hmmm wrong , maybe monster isnt the word but everyone who has sex with a minor is guilty ... and needs to be punished , or are we willing to say to that child , well it wasnt to bad was it hell lets say they even enjoyed it to hell with there mental stability , emotional health , this kind of overliberal nonsence is pure poison to any sane society .
Quote
A lot of children have sex with each other or older people willingly and a lot of them initiate it.
** yup lots of kids running around wanting to engage in sex and luring poor unsuspected adults into a legal trap , there so emotionally aware and worldy these days , pity the Adults dont know whats right and wrong , pity they arent as emotionally developed as these kids .... come on give me a break ..... wrong is wrong , its quite easy really
guilt is guilt , hey I dont care if the guy lived out a sentence or died at the hands of someone , not sure which would be worse so cant decide which is more appropriate , cant say Im worried about another scumbag having a longer result as a consequence either , could be a win win situation ....
Of course, there are lots who are scarred too--not discounting that. I'm just saying not everyone who's had sex with a "child" is a "monster."
** hmmm wrong , maybe monster isnt the word but everyone who has sex with a minor is guilty ... and needs to be punished , or are we willing to say to that child , well it wasnt to bad was it
hell lets say they even enjoyed it to hell with there mental stability , emotional health , this kind of overliberal nonsence is pure poison to any sane society .Quote
A lot of children have sex with each other or older people willingly and a lot of them initiate it.
** yup lots of kids running around wanting to engage in sex and luring poor unsuspected adults into a legal trap , there so emotionally aware and worldy these days , pity the Adults dont know whats right and wrong , pity they arent as emotionally developed as these kids .... come on give me a break ..... wrong is wrong , its quite easy really
guilt is guilt , hey I dont care if the guy lived out a sentence or died at the hands of someone , not sure which would be worse so cant decide which is more appropriate , cant say Im worried about another scumbag having a longer result as a consequence either , could be a win win situation ....
-
Bill Glasheen
- Posts: 17299
- Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
- Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY
I have to agree with a clear law against statutory rape. Yes, children have sex with other children, and children have sex with adults. Indeed! And if you go to other parts of the world, children are given arms and told to kill.
I had a conversation just last night with a father of a family that attends my martial arts class. We were discussiong Grossman's thesis on a human's innate aversion to killing. (Grossman gives countless examples of battles in history where the firing rate was about 10%. This means ninety percent of those who tote a gun in battle are "posturing." Pretty stunning when you consider the glory hype we read in our history books.) We then got to discussing Grossman's observation that approximately 98% of individuals can only go through about 30 days of continuous combat before experiencing "combat exhaustion." Sixty days and more, and people become psychotic and - in some cases - permanently deranged. This is wired into the mature homo sapiens. It is probably a big reason why we survived as a species. Even when we bypass nature's barrier via operant conditioning techniques (used in the modern military), the brain will eventually betray the soldier if forced into a killing mode for too long. And that 2%? They are found to have pathologic agressive personalities. They are the kind of people like former convict "Bob" (described by Darren Laur) that you really don't want to meet in a dark alley.
This parent told me he knew someone whose job it was to attempt to take "child soldiers" and turn them back into productive citizens. When you understand what's gone on here, when you understand the slow, steady pace of "EQ" development... These poor souls are scarred for life. The task of making them normal again is darned near impossible.
What's my point? Pychological maturity and physical/sexual maturity are two very, very different things. These days, a high calorie, high vitamin diet brings young males and females to sexual maturity at an obscenely early age. But the mind takes just as long to develop. We patchwork the messes we create with quiet abortions, medical treatment for STDs (some of which are fatal), counseling sessions... It's a mess.
There's a darned good reason for statutory rape laws. A mature individual should know better. Yes, my head snaps around just like the next guy when I see a 15-year-old walk by with a C cup chest, wearing a tight shirt and pants that show the bottom of her butt cheeks. I'm driven by testosterone just like the next guy. Visual cues cause powerful reactions in my psyche. The Id becons. The Superego reminds me that I look at a child with rights. The Ego makes me turn my head back around, and walk on. It is my duty, because I care for and respect that child. It is the same duty that makes me drive on in spite of the fact that some guy just flipped me the bird. While I'd like to pull my Glock out and waste him for his insolence, I know better. HE's got a right to be an a$$hole, and I don't have a right to end his life for it.
We need laws, boundaries, rules, and age limits. It protects us all. The more we abide by them, the less we screw up the minds and lives of humanity.
And yes, we are duty bound to protect the young, and the physically abused, and the emotionally abused from their desire to fly right into the flame. Should we not prosecute a man who broke bones in his wife's face because she says she loves him and needs him? No matter how much they tell us otherwise, there's nothing "happy" and "good" about allowing them to voluntarily go into the arms of mature adults that know better.
Monsters? I don't like labels. I only know the damage that is done when we don't abide by rules like these that seem arbitrary to some. The good of the many demands we do. But monster doesn't seem like such a bad label to me. Anyone who seeks gain at the expense of others - no matter their walk of life - is indeed one.
I respectfully disagree, Ian. I don't think you meant what you conveyed.
- Bill
I had a conversation just last night with a father of a family that attends my martial arts class. We were discussiong Grossman's thesis on a human's innate aversion to killing. (Grossman gives countless examples of battles in history where the firing rate was about 10%. This means ninety percent of those who tote a gun in battle are "posturing." Pretty stunning when you consider the glory hype we read in our history books.) We then got to discussing Grossman's observation that approximately 98% of individuals can only go through about 30 days of continuous combat before experiencing "combat exhaustion." Sixty days and more, and people become psychotic and - in some cases - permanently deranged. This is wired into the mature homo sapiens. It is probably a big reason why we survived as a species. Even when we bypass nature's barrier via operant conditioning techniques (used in the modern military), the brain will eventually betray the soldier if forced into a killing mode for too long. And that 2%? They are found to have pathologic agressive personalities. They are the kind of people like former convict "Bob" (described by Darren Laur) that you really don't want to meet in a dark alley.
This parent told me he knew someone whose job it was to attempt to take "child soldiers" and turn them back into productive citizens. When you understand what's gone on here, when you understand the slow, steady pace of "EQ" development... These poor souls are scarred for life. The task of making them normal again is darned near impossible.
What's my point? Pychological maturity and physical/sexual maturity are two very, very different things. These days, a high calorie, high vitamin diet brings young males and females to sexual maturity at an obscenely early age. But the mind takes just as long to develop. We patchwork the messes we create with quiet abortions, medical treatment for STDs (some of which are fatal), counseling sessions... It's a mess.
There's a darned good reason for statutory rape laws. A mature individual should know better. Yes, my head snaps around just like the next guy when I see a 15-year-old walk by with a C cup chest, wearing a tight shirt and pants that show the bottom of her butt cheeks. I'm driven by testosterone just like the next guy. Visual cues cause powerful reactions in my psyche. The Id becons. The Superego reminds me that I look at a child with rights. The Ego makes me turn my head back around, and walk on. It is my duty, because I care for and respect that child. It is the same duty that makes me drive on in spite of the fact that some guy just flipped me the bird. While I'd like to pull my Glock out and waste him for his insolence, I know better. HE's got a right to be an a$$hole, and I don't have a right to end his life for it.
We need laws, boundaries, rules, and age limits. It protects us all. The more we abide by them, the less we screw up the minds and lives of humanity.
And yes, we are duty bound to protect the young, and the physically abused, and the emotionally abused from their desire to fly right into the flame. Should we not prosecute a man who broke bones in his wife's face because she says she loves him and needs him? No matter how much they tell us otherwise, there's nothing "happy" and "good" about allowing them to voluntarily go into the arms of mature adults that know better.
Monsters? I don't like labels. I only know the damage that is done when we don't abide by rules like these that seem arbitrary to some. The good of the many demands we do. But monster doesn't seem like such a bad label to me. Anyone who seeks gain at the expense of others - no matter their walk of life - is indeed one.
I respectfully disagree, Ian. I don't think you meant what you conveyed.
- Bill
-
benzocaine
- Posts: 2107
- Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2003 12:20 pm
- Location: St. Thomas
Ian
, and would have jumped at the chance to "get with" a hot older woman. (for this discussion let's asume I mean age 12 through... what do statutory rape laws say? 17?) It would have been 3 seconds of glory for me 
... but what would that have said about the 19 -21 YO woman? Well we all know the answer to that question.... it's a perversion on her part.
All this thought about this topic has dredged up memories about this girl I liked so very much when I was 16. I was young and awkward... looking for the corect moment to ask her out(it had to be just right! didn't want to embarass myself). Well in Swoops Norman. Cool Norman. Norman was 21 years old and sponsored keg parties for all the teens in Carver MA. Hey what a guy right? Well, before I knew it my dream girl was going out with Norman. Norman knew I liked this girl so he would intimidate the hell out of me.. basically F$%$ed with me all the time.
I stayed the hell away from Norman for quite some time.. even lost some "friends" to him. Well one day when I was 19 some "friends" got Norman to arive at a house I was at. Norman started his intimidation s%%t again
and even started to get in my face. I snapped. I cought him in the head with a right hook, threw my right foot in front ofhim and threw,swept,tripped him so his head would hit the table next to uson the way down. I then proceded to pummel his face. Norman gouged my left eye. Our mutual "friends" tore me off him. There were rumors that Norman carried a gun, him being the cool New Bedford guy he was ( guys from MASS know what I mean), so I took the hell off.
I've ran into Norman a few times since then. We just smile at each other... Hell this is 12 years ago and I still would fight him any time. Well anyways... so much for fond memories of older people with younger peolpe huh?
Ok... I understand this as having once been a teen myself. You do mean teen right?A great many children have sex when they are underage and cherish the memories.
Children? I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and still asume you meant teen. hmmmm. I can almost understand your "logic". I think about how it was when I was 12 through say 29-A lot of children have sex with each other or older people willingly and a lot of them initiate it.
, and would have jumped at the chance to "get with" a hot older woman. (for this discussion let's asume I mean age 12 through... what do statutory rape laws say? 17?) It would have been 3 seconds of glory for me ... but what would that have said about the 19 -21 YO woman? Well we all know the answer to that question.... it's a perversion on her part.All this thought about this topic has dredged up memories about this girl I liked so very much when I was 16. I was young and awkward... looking for the corect moment to ask her out(it had to be just right! didn't want to embarass myself). Well in Swoops Norman. Cool Norman. Norman was 21 years old and sponsored keg parties for all the teens in Carver MA. Hey what a guy right? Well, before I knew it my dream girl was going out with Norman. Norman knew I liked this girl so he would intimidate the hell out of me.. basically F$%$ed with me all the time.
I stayed the hell away from Norman for quite some time.. even lost some "friends" to him. Well one day when I was 19 some "friends" got Norman to arive at a house I was at. Norman started his intimidation s%%t again
and even started to get in my face. I snapped. I cought him in the head with a right hook, threw my right foot in front ofhim and threw,swept,tripped him so his head would hit the table next to uson the way down. I then proceded to pummel his face. Norman gouged my left eye. Our mutual "friends" tore me off him. There were rumors that Norman carried a gun, him being the cool New Bedford guy he was ( guys from MASS know what I mean), so I took the hell off.I've ran into Norman a few times since then. We just smile at each other... Hell this is 12 years ago and I still would fight him any time. Well anyways... so much for fond memories of older people with younger peolpe huh?
(Obviously) rape and predators are horrible, but there are a heck of a lot of situations that aren't rape or an older person with a mental disorder.
A lot of my friends, both guys and girls, willingly lost their virginity in 5th or 6th grade; they're fine. Kids do have sex with kids all the time... whatever floats your boat. I treasure my underage sex memories because I wasn't raped. I was workin' my butt off to get with the college chicks. It's all good fun. One of my girlfriend's college friends was shocked to find out the guy she was dating was 14. Because of his maturity level and physical appearance, she assumed he was in college and his age just never came up (he wasn't even trying to fool her). Statutory rape laws are absurd. If you want to call it a crime, cry bad parenting.
A lot of my friends, both guys and girls, willingly lost their virginity in 5th or 6th grade; they're fine. Kids do have sex with kids all the time... whatever floats your boat. I treasure my underage sex memories because I wasn't raped. I was workin' my butt off to get with the college chicks. It's all good fun. One of my girlfriend's college friends was shocked to find out the guy she was dating was 14. Because of his maturity level and physical appearance, she assumed he was in college and his age just never came up (he wasn't even trying to fool her). Statutory rape laws are absurd. If you want to call it a crime, cry bad parenting.
-
Bill Glasheen
- Posts: 17299
- Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
- Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY
Hey, nobody said we males didn't try!!!
Unfortunately, the price of bad decisions is very high these days. Underage with a little bit of alcohol often leads to unprotected sex, which can lead to death by HIV. Nasty!!!
I'm happy for your memories, TSDguy. Jealous in fact. Wish I was as lucky, or physically matured as quickly. But... I probably turned out better for it all. Kept my mind on my school work, didn't get anyone pregnant, didn't catch any permanent diseases, and was able to establish a life. Just frustrated as hell...
Wasted a lot of money on Playboys... Calloused hands... But a GREAT Uechi grip. And you guys thought I got that from kami training... 
We can smile at most of it. But rules need to be made, until we can come up with a valid test for emotional and psychological maturity that works better than an arbitrary age. And we must prove that an adolescent can hold a job and raise a family if he gets someone pregnant (or she gets pregnant). With the privledge comes responsibility. With the risk of modern diseases comes death, and even disease for the offspring we may accidentally produce.
Nice idea but... Once again I respectfully disagree.
- Bill
Unfortunately, the price of bad decisions is very high these days. Underage with a little bit of alcohol often leads to unprotected sex, which can lead to death by HIV. Nasty!!!
I'm happy for your memories, TSDguy. Jealous in fact. Wish I was as lucky, or physically matured as quickly. But... I probably turned out better for it all. Kept my mind on my school work, didn't get anyone pregnant, didn't catch any permanent diseases, and was able to establish a life. Just frustrated as hell...
Wasted a lot of money on Playboys... Calloused hands... But a GREAT Uechi grip. And you guys thought I got that from kami training... We can smile at most of it. But rules need to be made, until we can come up with a valid test for emotional and psychological maturity that works better than an arbitrary age. And we must prove that an adolescent can hold a job and raise a family if he gets someone pregnant (or she gets pregnant). With the privledge comes responsibility. With the risk of modern diseases comes death, and even disease for the offspring we may accidentally produce.
Nice idea but... Once again I respectfully disagree.
- Bill
