Investigating your kata
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Investigating your kata
I will like to know how to properly investigate techniques in Uechi katas. I understand the basic interpretation of the techniques and can give applications for most of the techniques. But I still feel and I am lacking in some inner knowledge/understanding of the katas. I am thinking there are principles when it comes to investigating your kata. Can someone help me out here?
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Bill Glasheen
- Posts: 17299
- Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
- Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY
There are no real secrets here. It's kind of like reading Shakespeare. It takes many, many readings and some study of the culture of the time to begin to peel the layers of the kata onion and get more out of it.
I have a few rules of thumb for Uechi kata.
1) Do not attach specific meanings to general motions in the Uechi system. A circle is just a circle. Sometimes it's a block. Sometimes it's a grab following a parry. Sometimes it's an attack. Sometimes it's a trap and/or a manipulation of your opponent in sticking hands or grappling. In the end, it's just a circle. The more different things you can attach to it, the less you have to remember. Parsimony is good at the time of attack, where having to remember many responses to a single stimulus slows you down.
2) Do not take the intra-body timing of complex techniques to be sacred. For whatever reasons, few of the complicated movements are done in total in application. Often you just use pieces and parts of them. Sometimes you use all of the movement, but split the pieces up so you don't do them at the same timing as in the kata.
3) Remember that Uechi fighting covers all ranges. In particular, Uechi practitioners should be better at fighting in "bad breath range" than most martial artists. Constant contact is the southern Chinese way (as opposed to the Okinawan interpretation, which IMO is a bit off base).
4) Remember that turning doesn't necessarily mean fighting a new opponent. Many times it means moving around the same opponent. Movement is what your advanced martial arts is all about.
5) Uechi kata are not sport fighting, nor are they a gentleman's art. This is nasty stuff. Think predator, and you have the right mindset to interpret the movements.
6) Uechi kata have as much grappling in them as they have striking. Look to the grappling arts (aikido, jiujitsu) to complete your understanding of the system.
7) The movements work just as well on the ground as they do on your feet
8) Many of the movements also are used in weapons work. Many hand positions (such as the nukite) are IMO just metaphors for what you really are doing.
Hope that helps. From that point on, just explore, experiment, inquire, and interact. Don't be afraid to look to other arts. Just be flexible enough in your thinking to see your own movements in what others are doing.
- Bill
I have a few rules of thumb for Uechi kata.
1) Do not attach specific meanings to general motions in the Uechi system. A circle is just a circle. Sometimes it's a block. Sometimes it's a grab following a parry. Sometimes it's an attack. Sometimes it's a trap and/or a manipulation of your opponent in sticking hands or grappling. In the end, it's just a circle. The more different things you can attach to it, the less you have to remember. Parsimony is good at the time of attack, where having to remember many responses to a single stimulus slows you down.
2) Do not take the intra-body timing of complex techniques to be sacred. For whatever reasons, few of the complicated movements are done in total in application. Often you just use pieces and parts of them. Sometimes you use all of the movement, but split the pieces up so you don't do them at the same timing as in the kata.
3) Remember that Uechi fighting covers all ranges. In particular, Uechi practitioners should be better at fighting in "bad breath range" than most martial artists. Constant contact is the southern Chinese way (as opposed to the Okinawan interpretation, which IMO is a bit off base).
4) Remember that turning doesn't necessarily mean fighting a new opponent. Many times it means moving around the same opponent. Movement is what your advanced martial arts is all about.
5) Uechi kata are not sport fighting, nor are they a gentleman's art. This is nasty stuff. Think predator, and you have the right mindset to interpret the movements.
6) Uechi kata have as much grappling in them as they have striking. Look to the grappling arts (aikido, jiujitsu) to complete your understanding of the system.
7) The movements work just as well on the ground as they do on your feet
8) Many of the movements also are used in weapons work. Many hand positions (such as the nukite) are IMO just metaphors for what you really are doing.
Hope that helps. From that point on, just explore, experiment, inquire, and interact. Don't be afraid to look to other arts. Just be flexible enough in your thinking to see your own movements in what others are doing.
- Bill
Investigating your kata
Thanks Bill, that was helpful
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Evan Pantazi
- Posts: 1897
- Joined: Thu Sep 17, 1998 6:01 am
- Location: N. Andover, Ma. USA
- Contact:
If I may be so bold... we currently have a thread on Uechi Ryu and the closed Gate Posture in Particular. The volume of links made it easier to just post this one to the thread. This is not as a gimick to get you to visit and I will immediately remove it from this thread if asked.
Lets look at what Sensei Glasheen said and as an illustrated idea look at the finnishing move of Sanchin, Closed Gate as a finnish... just to start! Click here.
Make sure to click on the pictures as the accompanying video is there... also the Click Here comments!
Lets look at what Sensei Glasheen said and as an illustrated idea look at the finnishing move of Sanchin, Closed Gate as a finnish... just to start! Click here.
Make sure to click on the pictures as the accompanying video is there... also the Click Here comments!
Evan Pantazi
www.kyusho.com
www.kyusho.com
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GSantaniello
- Posts: 190
- Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2001 6:01 am
- Location: Randolph, Ma. U.S.A.
I will like to know how to properly investigate techniques in Uechi katas. I understand the basic interpretation of the techniques and can give applications for most of the techniques. But I still feel and I am lacking in some inner knowledge/understanding of the katas.
Good question ? As many go through years of practicing kata and never look for "deeper understanding."
I had once made reference to such some time ago as a responce to a posting that "one should look deeper into kata for understanding".
However, at that time it was not well understood as to my intention or was taken out of context.
However, Bill makes some good points in responce and also leaves me with some question as to the following responce:
no real secrets here. It's kind of like reading Shakespeare. It takes many, many readings and some study of the culture of the time to begin to peel the layers of the kata onion and get more out of it.
I absolutely agree with the analogy.
1) Do not attach specific meanings to general motions in the Uechi system. A circle is just a circle. Sometimes it's a block. Sometimes it's a grab following a parry. Sometimes it's an attack. Sometimes it's a trap and/or a manipulation of your opponent in sticking hands or grappling. In the end, it's just a circle. The more different things you can attach to it, the less you have to remember.
This is also very true. For many "hold fast" to one meaning or one view to a movement or technique.
Certainly many movements have multple meanings and purposes.
2) Do not take the intra-body
timing of complex techniques to be sacred. For whatever reasons, few of the complicated movements are done in total in application. Often you just use pieces and parts of them. Sometimes you use all of the movement, but split the pieces up so you don't do them at the same timing as in the kata.
This as also a very valid point. Often not pointed out or understood in students and in some dan ranks.
3) Remember that Uechi fighting covers all ranges. In particular, Uechi practitioners should be better at fighting in "bad breath range" than most martial artists. Constant contact is the southern Chinese way (as opposed to the Okinawan interpretation, which IMO is a bit off base).
Bill, this i question. As i do not see the "constant contact" being a primary portion of uechi. Although i do see in some aspects the utilization of such movement in controlling one's opponent, i often acknowledge the need for some striking distance in order to project some power into our hand stikes and kicks. As i find that "to close" in contact often limits the ability to use damaging blows.
However, going into takedown, chocking or other "manipulation" movements, i can and do see some relative corralation to "constant contact".
6) Uechi kata have as much grappling in them as they have striking. Look to the grappling arts (aikido, jiujitsu) to complete your understanding of the system.
7) The movements work just as well on the ground as they do on your feet
I have studied Aikido for several years and do see the circular block having much relationship to the throw, defelcting movements and wrist locking techniques. However, what i have not seen, been taught or experienced myself is the reference you make to the uechi movements working well on the ground.
As i intend not to challenge you to the claim, however would ask that possibly next year at summer camp, suggest the possibilty of your teaching a seminar on such material ? As myself and others would most likely love to see how the stand up art that we practice so often upon our feet, also work well on the ground ?
With all do respect, in my 30 years i have not seen anyone teach what we do standing and striking convert to ground tactics. Please consider the request for next year as i think that many would be interested. Certainly i would.
Studying "grappling" with such as Joe P. is another animal i'm sure. As that pertains to the art of grappling. Do you feel as though they contain the same elements within ? Or do you think that there is a definate difference between grappling" (ground work) and uechi used on the ground ?
Hope that helps. From that point on, just explore, experiment, inquire, and interact. Don't be afraid to look to other arts. Just be flexible enough in your thinking to see your own movements in what others are doing.
Good advice. I agree completely with the statement. Many are afraid to look elsewhere to understand.
Respectfully,
Good question ? As many go through years of practicing kata and never look for "deeper understanding."
I had once made reference to such some time ago as a responce to a posting that "one should look deeper into kata for understanding".
However, at that time it was not well understood as to my intention or was taken out of context.
However, Bill makes some good points in responce and also leaves me with some question as to the following responce:
no real secrets here. It's kind of like reading Shakespeare. It takes many, many readings and some study of the culture of the time to begin to peel the layers of the kata onion and get more out of it.
I absolutely agree with the analogy.
1) Do not attach specific meanings to general motions in the Uechi system. A circle is just a circle. Sometimes it's a block. Sometimes it's a grab following a parry. Sometimes it's an attack. Sometimes it's a trap and/or a manipulation of your opponent in sticking hands or grappling. In the end, it's just a circle. The more different things you can attach to it, the less you have to remember.
This is also very true. For many "hold fast" to one meaning or one view to a movement or technique.
Certainly many movements have multple meanings and purposes.
2) Do not take the intra-body
timing of complex techniques to be sacred. For whatever reasons, few of the complicated movements are done in total in application. Often you just use pieces and parts of them. Sometimes you use all of the movement, but split the pieces up so you don't do them at the same timing as in the kata.
This as also a very valid point. Often not pointed out or understood in students and in some dan ranks.
3) Remember that Uechi fighting covers all ranges. In particular, Uechi practitioners should be better at fighting in "bad breath range" than most martial artists. Constant contact is the southern Chinese way (as opposed to the Okinawan interpretation, which IMO is a bit off base).
Bill, this i question. As i do not see the "constant contact" being a primary portion of uechi. Although i do see in some aspects the utilization of such movement in controlling one's opponent, i often acknowledge the need for some striking distance in order to project some power into our hand stikes and kicks. As i find that "to close" in contact often limits the ability to use damaging blows.
However, going into takedown, chocking or other "manipulation" movements, i can and do see some relative corralation to "constant contact".
6) Uechi kata have as much grappling in them as they have striking. Look to the grappling arts (aikido, jiujitsu) to complete your understanding of the system.
7) The movements work just as well on the ground as they do on your feet
I have studied Aikido for several years and do see the circular block having much relationship to the throw, defelcting movements and wrist locking techniques. However, what i have not seen, been taught or experienced myself is the reference you make to the uechi movements working well on the ground.
As i intend not to challenge you to the claim, however would ask that possibly next year at summer camp, suggest the possibilty of your teaching a seminar on such material ? As myself and others would most likely love to see how the stand up art that we practice so often upon our feet, also work well on the ground ?
With all do respect, in my 30 years i have not seen anyone teach what we do standing and striking convert to ground tactics. Please consider the request for next year as i think that many would be interested. Certainly i would.
Studying "grappling" with such as Joe P. is another animal i'm sure. As that pertains to the art of grappling. Do you feel as though they contain the same elements within ? Or do you think that there is a definate difference between grappling" (ground work) and uechi used on the ground ?
Hope that helps. From that point on, just explore, experiment, inquire, and interact. Don't be afraid to look to other arts. Just be flexible enough in your thinking to see your own movements in what others are doing.
Good advice. I agree completely with the statement. Many are afraid to look elsewhere to understand.
Respectfully,
Gary S.
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Bill Glasheen
- Posts: 17299
- Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
- Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY
Gary
I find it interesting that Van smiled (so to write) and others were silent. What I wrote goes pretty deep. Someone like Van's been around to know what I am talking about, or see what I see. In some cases in fact, knowledge that I have crystalized into specific points come partially from Van's influence. We all contribute to the general understanding over time. After a while, it's difficult to know where a good idea or thought came from.
I'll try to address your questions.
In interpreting kata, one often may take a piece of one movement and combine it with part of another to create a new technique. Now, how on earth would I ever come up with a thought like that? Easy...
First, take a look at a kata like Seiryu. After studying it for a bit, you realize that the most important lesson is 'You already have learned these principles manifested as specific techniques and combinations. Now lets jumble them up and create new techniques/combinations from the same stuff you already know. Moral of the story - learn the vocabulary and grammar of the style, and get out of the "copying" mode.' It's like graduating from classical music to jazz. There's nothing sacred about the sequence - just the pieces and parts, and the rules for putting them together.
So... Then you go to a kata like Hamahiga no tonfa, and see echos of seisan all the way through it. It's all there, but all jumbled up. You even have the seisan jump arm positions (up/down) in both crane and horse stances. And you have to reorient your hands because now you have a weapon in them and it has to be used a specific way. Then take the same seisan-jump-like move with a tonfa, and put sai in your hands. Almost the same but... Now you have to reorient your hand again because sais have their own ways of being used.
But there is a "seisan-ness" to them all.
Pretty soon you learn what is sacred (the grammar of the techniques in a system) and what isn't (a specific story told by a specific kata using specific techniques).
It's there. The problem is that you've been looking at Kanbun's material that he learned from a Chinese through the eyes of Okinawans who only have seen other Okinawan arts. And truth be told, many of those Okinawans can't even see the grappling applications right smack in their own kata. Go figure... They do kata, they get big fists by smacking the makiwara, and they do boxing-like sparring. The stories deep in the kata have been lost to many who never get past the first few layers of the onion.
Kyu and dan kumite are all about sparring distances. Westerners also think like boxers and view Uechi as a boxing-like art. Then they grapple and throw their Uechi away.
And somewhere in the middle is IMO where the heart of Uechi really shines w.r.t. other arts. No art that I know of bridges the gap between striking and grappling so well.
Study some Wing Chun for a while. Do lots of chi sao. It'll come to you.
Also, remember Bruce Lee's one-inch punch? What point do you think he was trying to make? An advanced practitioner does NOT need lots of distance to generate a lot of power. (S)he only needs to learn to master whole body mechanics. That's easier said that done. This is where the advanced stuff comes. Van plays with it in his TC stuff. Dana plays with it in her Nakamatsu-inspired stuff. I picked it up by watching them all, and picking up good generalizeable sports skills from other non-martial venues.
Plus...how much room do you need to put a hiraken in somebody's eye, or in their neck? It's not a power thrust (tsuki), for Christ's sake, it's a poke (nuki).
Also, remember that nobody lets us use elbows, knees, and head butts. Yet elbows and knees are all the way through the kata, no? Just for decoration? I don't think so. Once again, this is the limit you reach if you only do the standard Okinawan kumite and some sport sparring. And this is all used in "bad breath range."
FYI, I've choreographed 12 bunkai for the 13 Uechi hojoundo. Some of these employ some of these principles that are in are kata. Truth be told, I stole some of these from Wing Chun.
But then again, WC is a cousin to Uechi, no? Same geographic origin.
A little Wing Chun (I taught myself), a little aikido (I was taught), a little jiujitsu (I just dabble) and next thing you know, you see things in the kata that the Okinawans never tell you.
If you love photography, get this book.
Photography and the Art of Seeing
Indeed you need to train your kata eyes to see the possibilities. Freeman Patterson shows you how to do this with the camera as opposed to using your kata. But it's all the same art, and it takes the same gifts that we all can develop.
Examples...
An ankle lock - done on the ground - is an excellent interpretation of the sanseiryu movement that the Okinawans call shoken sukuiage uke (shoken scooping lifting block). For Christ's sake, it isn't a damn block! It's just a movement. You can catch a leg with it standing, or lock an ankle with it while lieing down, or do a nasty headlock on the bad guy who's trying to tackle you.
Also... Watch Joey grapple. Watch all the circular moves he does with his arms on the ground while trying to gain an advantage. He does them standing up, on his knees, on his back, on top of an opponent, etc., etc., etc. One circle after the next.
I have a better idea. Over time, I'm going to start filming "unconventional interpretations" of Uechi kata moves. If I do enough of them, people will begin to "see" what I see. Then I'll have material that people can go back to after a quick seminar.
It'll only be The Book of Bill, but another book is a good thing.
- Bill
I find it interesting that Van smiled (so to write) and others were silent. What I wrote goes pretty deep. Someone like Van's been around to know what I am talking about, or see what I see. In some cases in fact, knowledge that I have crystalized into specific points come partially from Van's influence. We all contribute to the general understanding over time. After a while, it's difficult to know where a good idea or thought came from.
I'll try to address your questions.
I'd like to add a corallary to this, which will help folks understand a point I need to make later.2) Do not take the intra-body
timing of complex techniques to be sacred. For whatever reasons, few of the complicated movements are done in total in application. Often you just use pieces and parts of them. Sometimes you use all of the movement, but split the pieces up so you don't do them at the same timing as in the kata.
This as also a very valid point. Often not pointed out or understood in students and in some dan ranks.
In interpreting kata, one often may take a piece of one movement and combine it with part of another to create a new technique. Now, how on earth would I ever come up with a thought like that? Easy...
First, take a look at a kata like Seiryu. After studying it for a bit, you realize that the most important lesson is 'You already have learned these principles manifested as specific techniques and combinations. Now lets jumble them up and create new techniques/combinations from the same stuff you already know. Moral of the story - learn the vocabulary and grammar of the style, and get out of the "copying" mode.' It's like graduating from classical music to jazz. There's nothing sacred about the sequence - just the pieces and parts, and the rules for putting them together.
So... Then you go to a kata like Hamahiga no tonfa, and see echos of seisan all the way through it. It's all there, but all jumbled up. You even have the seisan jump arm positions (up/down) in both crane and horse stances. And you have to reorient your hands because now you have a weapon in them and it has to be used a specific way. Then take the same seisan-jump-like move with a tonfa, and put sai in your hands. Almost the same but... Now you have to reorient your hand again because sais have their own ways of being used.
But there is a "seisan-ness" to them all.
Pretty soon you learn what is sacred (the grammar of the techniques in a system) and what isn't (a specific story told by a specific kata using specific techniques).
Indeed. I am not surprised, nor would Van or Rick Wilson or Raffi.3) Remember that Uechi fighting covers all ranges. In particular, Uechi practitioners should be better at fighting in "bad breath range" than most martial artists. Constant contact is the southern Chinese way (as opposed to the Okinawan interpretation, which IMO is a bit off base).
Bill, this i question. As i do not see the "constant contact" being a primary portion of uechi. Although i do see in some aspects the utilization of such movement in controlling one's opponent, i often acknowledge the need for some striking distance in order to project some power into our hand stikes and kicks. As i find that "to close" in contact often limits the ability to use damaging blows.
However, going into takedown, chocking or other "manipulation" movements, i can and do see some relative corralation to "constant contact".
It's there. The problem is that you've been looking at Kanbun's material that he learned from a Chinese through the eyes of Okinawans who only have seen other Okinawan arts. And truth be told, many of those Okinawans can't even see the grappling applications right smack in their own kata. Go figure... They do kata, they get big fists by smacking the makiwara, and they do boxing-like sparring. The stories deep in the kata have been lost to many who never get past the first few layers of the onion.
Kyu and dan kumite are all about sparring distances. Westerners also think like boxers and view Uechi as a boxing-like art. Then they grapple and throw their Uechi away.
And somewhere in the middle is IMO where the heart of Uechi really shines w.r.t. other arts. No art that I know of bridges the gap between striking and grappling so well.
Study some Wing Chun for a while. Do lots of chi sao. It'll come to you.
Also, remember Bruce Lee's one-inch punch? What point do you think he was trying to make? An advanced practitioner does NOT need lots of distance to generate a lot of power. (S)he only needs to learn to master whole body mechanics. That's easier said that done. This is where the advanced stuff comes. Van plays with it in his TC stuff. Dana plays with it in her Nakamatsu-inspired stuff. I picked it up by watching them all, and picking up good generalizeable sports skills from other non-martial venues.
Plus...how much room do you need to put a hiraken in somebody's eye, or in their neck? It's not a power thrust (tsuki), for Christ's sake, it's a poke (nuki).
Also, remember that nobody lets us use elbows, knees, and head butts. Yet elbows and knees are all the way through the kata, no? Just for decoration? I don't think so. Once again, this is the limit you reach if you only do the standard Okinawan kumite and some sport sparring. And this is all used in "bad breath range."
FYI, I've choreographed 12 bunkai for the 13 Uechi hojoundo. Some of these employ some of these principles that are in are kata. Truth be told, I stole some of these from Wing Chun.
But then again, WC is a cousin to Uechi, no? Same geographic origin.A little Wing Chun (I taught myself), a little aikido (I was taught), a little jiujitsu (I just dabble) and next thing you know, you see things in the kata that the Okinawans never tell you.
Joe Pomfret and I joke about this a lot, as do Raffi and I. I watch them move, and see Uechi in their movement (BJJ for Joey, FMA for Raffi). They think I am halucinating.I have studied Aikido for several years and do see the circular block having much relationship to the throw, defelcting movements and wrist locking techniques. However, what i have not seen, been taught or experienced myself is the reference you make to the uechi movements working well on the ground.
If you love photography, get this book.
Photography and the Art of Seeing
Indeed you need to train your kata eyes to see the possibilities. Freeman Patterson shows you how to do this with the camera as opposed to using your kata. But it's all the same art, and it takes the same gifts that we all can develop.
Examples...
An ankle lock - done on the ground - is an excellent interpretation of the sanseiryu movement that the Okinawans call shoken sukuiage uke (shoken scooping lifting block). For Christ's sake, it isn't a damn block! It's just a movement. You can catch a leg with it standing, or lock an ankle with it while lieing down, or do a nasty headlock on the bad guy who's trying to tackle you.
Also... Watch Joey grapple. Watch all the circular moves he does with his arms on the ground while trying to gain an advantage. He does them standing up, on his knees, on his back, on top of an opponent, etc., etc., etc. One circle after the next.
I'd be happy to.With all do respect, in my 30 years i have not seen anyone teach what we do standing and striking convert to ground tactics. Please consider the request for next year as i think that many would be interested. Certainly i would.
I have a better idea. Over time, I'm going to start filming "unconventional interpretations" of Uechi kata moves. If I do enough of them, people will begin to "see" what I see. Then I'll have material that people can go back to after a quick seminar.
It'll only be The Book of Bill, but another book is a good thing.
- Bill
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HALFORD E. JONES
- Posts: 133
- Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2004 7:08 pm
- Contact:
"OF THE WRITING OF BOOKS THERE IS NO END!"
This is not the exact quote but it was written in ancient times when there were but a handful of books! Actually, they were scrolls! Maybe someone can remember the exact quote as the thing appeared once in RIPLEY'S BELIEVE IT OR NOT! Halford-
Guest
Good on you Bill! It's this type of sharing that is going to get us all examining our kata. Many of us are guilt of accepting one answer and one range. What you propose could stimilate growth in many.I have a better idea. Over time, I'm going to start filming "unconventional interpretations" of Uechi kata moves. If I do enough of them, people will begin to "see" what I see.
Great first post on this thread I agree with your first 6 points.
Uechi movement work armed or unarmed, the shoken and hammer fist urakein etc become something different with a blade in hand. Nukite's work fine on their own too btw.
As far as movements working just as well on the ground, yes some of it may be handy but far from a complete system on the mat. Then again this opinion may just be my lack of understanding....I look forward too the book of Bill, and would probably attend the seminar with Gary.
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GSantaniello
- Posts: 190
- Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2001 6:01 am
- Location: Randolph, Ma. U.S.A.
Bill,
Thank you for your responce and sharing your views. My next trip to Barnes & Noble (book store) i will check out the "Photography and The Art Of Seeing" that you mention.
I do understand and comprehend the interacting of movements and martial arts in many perspectives. As i would hope that many other practicioners do also.
Truth behold, i have not ventured into ground work and do not know enough in that aspect to know how much relationship uechi offers to that area. As i believe many others are most likely in that same position.
Over the past 5 years i have undergone some physical limitations as knee surgery (orthroscopic) from ongoing cartilage problems and some back (degenative disc) problems that have shyed me away from such activity.
Not to have any ground knowlege is to lack abilty in one area that could make a difference in a situation. As i am not a believer that "all" situations end up on the ground, contrary to some belief.
However, i do acknowledge that it very well could.
An experienced individual in this area may suceed in taking one dowm and using such skills to defeat an opponent. However, not all are skilled in this area and i believe that good stand up fighters who are fast and quick to recover and get back on their feet, have a very good chance of favourable outcome.
I realize that this is a debatable issue and it is not my intent to start such. However, i only wish to through those thoughts out there.
In regards to your choreographed 12 bunkai for the 13 uechi hojoundo, i ask if they are video or cd copied and available through susan ?
As i believe that the material would be interesting to view. Also i believe that Joey came out with a cd on "grappling basics for uechiryu" that i have also failed to obtain.
Surely these other areas should be looked upon. Even if one does not practice and train in ground work, some awareness of the fundementials are essential to the overall training. Would you agree ?
To know and be able to read an opponents intent and how to react to such is surely an advantage in defence strategy. I do not think that one has to actually train in all of these various arts to be well rounded as much as the need to understand how they differ and what their simularities are.
Respectfully
Thank you for your responce and sharing your views. My next trip to Barnes & Noble (book store) i will check out the "Photography and The Art Of Seeing" that you mention.
I do understand and comprehend the interacting of movements and martial arts in many perspectives. As i would hope that many other practicioners do also.
Truth behold, i have not ventured into ground work and do not know enough in that aspect to know how much relationship uechi offers to that area. As i believe many others are most likely in that same position.
Over the past 5 years i have undergone some physical limitations as knee surgery (orthroscopic) from ongoing cartilage problems and some back (degenative disc) problems that have shyed me away from such activity.
Not to have any ground knowlege is to lack abilty in one area that could make a difference in a situation. As i am not a believer that "all" situations end up on the ground, contrary to some belief.
However, i do acknowledge that it very well could.
An experienced individual in this area may suceed in taking one dowm and using such skills to defeat an opponent. However, not all are skilled in this area and i believe that good stand up fighters who are fast and quick to recover and get back on their feet, have a very good chance of favourable outcome.
I realize that this is a debatable issue and it is not my intent to start such. However, i only wish to through those thoughts out there.
In regards to your choreographed 12 bunkai for the 13 uechi hojoundo, i ask if they are video or cd copied and available through susan ?
As i believe that the material would be interesting to view. Also i believe that Joey came out with a cd on "grappling basics for uechiryu" that i have also failed to obtain.
Surely these other areas should be looked upon. Even if one does not practice and train in ground work, some awareness of the fundementials are essential to the overall training. Would you agree ?
To know and be able to read an opponents intent and how to react to such is surely an advantage in defence strategy. I do not think that one has to actually train in all of these various arts to be well rounded as much as the need to understand how they differ and what their simularities are.
Respectfully
Gary S.
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Evan Pantazi
- Posts: 1897
- Joined: Thu Sep 17, 1998 6:01 am
- Location: N. Andover, Ma. USA
- Contact:
Another way to discover is the Art of Feeling.
Start Grappling with another and you will find yourself subconscioussly doing Kata moves. If you are looking or feeling for them it will happen... provided you are in touch enough with your Kata. As you work this it becomes easier until all you do is see and feel Kata. The reverse it so that when doing Kata... you feel that last match, that technique you realized, envision, see and be.
Start Grappling with another and you will find yourself subconscioussly doing Kata moves. If you are looking or feeling for them it will happen... provided you are in touch enough with your Kata. As you work this it becomes easier until all you do is see and feel Kata. The reverse it so that when doing Kata... you feel that last match, that technique you realized, envision, see and be.
Evan Pantazi
www.kyusho.com
www.kyusho.com
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Bill Glasheen
- Posts: 17299
- Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
- Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY
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Bill Glasheen
- Posts: 17299
- Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
- Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY
Gary
Don't feel bad. You are just one more example of "death and taxes." We are all falling apart; some do it more gracefully than others.
Exploring your kata more for less energy consuming and body punishing ways to fight is your next challenge. That's what keeps the old timers in it. As I often tell my son when doing school work, "Don't work harder, work smarter."
Also, it's worth mentioning that your workouts should be barometers of your health. If the net effect of training and practice is a general taxing of your body, it's worth reassessing what you do, how you compete, and how you train. I had one of those epiphanies in my mid twenties, and learned to spend a little less time banging and a little more time conditioning (weight training, cardiovascular work, flexibility training, and "smart" body conditioning).
I'm like you. I'm not going out to compete at a level that is unrealistic for my age and my natural abilities. But there are many things I can do (for instance on the mat) that will help me pick stuff up over the long run. And I'm crazy enough to try to teach new things shortly after I am exposed to them. It's a great way to internalize the information w/o having to pick it up the hard way in the school of hard knocks.
As for the striking vs. grappling business, well I don't worry about it so much any more. It's all good. Certainly a wrestler's going to have a way of doing things that's different from someone who started in boxing. But the trend these days is to expand from the base and at least get exposed to the spectrum of fighting methods. As you say you don't need to master them all; just be familiar with it all and know how to play your game. But as Larry Tan used to say, "There are only so many ways to twist the human body. After a while, you start repeating yourself." With exposure, most find that there is an easy transition from standing to ground, and much that one can carry over from venue to venue. If we can make things simple like that, well then why not?
- Bill
Don't feel bad. You are just one more example of "death and taxes." We are all falling apart; some do it more gracefully than others.
Exploring your kata more for less energy consuming and body punishing ways to fight is your next challenge. That's what keeps the old timers in it. As I often tell my son when doing school work, "Don't work harder, work smarter."
Also, it's worth mentioning that your workouts should be barometers of your health. If the net effect of training and practice is a general taxing of your body, it's worth reassessing what you do, how you compete, and how you train. I had one of those epiphanies in my mid twenties, and learned to spend a little less time banging and a little more time conditioning (weight training, cardiovascular work, flexibility training, and "smart" body conditioning).
I'm like you. I'm not going out to compete at a level that is unrealistic for my age and my natural abilities. But there are many things I can do (for instance on the mat) that will help me pick stuff up over the long run. And I'm crazy enough to try to teach new things shortly after I am exposed to them. It's a great way to internalize the information w/o having to pick it up the hard way in the school of hard knocks.
As for the striking vs. grappling business, well I don't worry about it so much any more. It's all good. Certainly a wrestler's going to have a way of doing things that's different from someone who started in boxing. But the trend these days is to expand from the base and at least get exposed to the spectrum of fighting methods. As you say you don't need to master them all; just be familiar with it all and know how to play your game. But as Larry Tan used to say, "There are only so many ways to twist the human body. After a while, you start repeating yourself." With exposure, most find that there is an easy transition from standing to ground, and much that one can carry over from venue to venue. If we can make things simple like that, well then why not?
- Bill
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Bill Glasheen
- Posts: 17299
- Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
- Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY
I filmed this on the old Hi8 video format (with David Powell circa 1994) and sent the original tape to George. George tells me he recently found it. While the quality of the video may not be great, the exercises should still come through quite nice. It wouldn't take much to get someone to digitize it and send out some CDs.In regards to your choreographed 12 bunkai for the 13 uechi hojoundo, i ask if they are video or cd copied and available through susan ?
Like a lot of things, the most important element of the exercises I choreographed isn't what to do, but how to do them.
Some of them are pretty simple, and gasp even do things like back up. No biggie...they are just training drills like your kotekitae. Like Raffi's flow drills, they are designed to get you to do something in an endless loop until you want to puke. This gives lots of opportunity to internalize the content, and lots of opportunity for the teacher to step in and add layers of sophistication to how someone is doing something. Pretty soon you have people stepping off the line of force, and applying plyometric principles to turn energy back at an opponent. You even have people departing from the routine at unpredictable moments just to see if the student is tuned into the partner or the pattern. And I even can tell when someone is trying to attack me or attack my block. At an unpredictable moment, I'll drop my hands and watch them flail at the air. Over time, the student changes his/her attitude about what to do, and will focus on nailing the partner (with control of course).
Furthermore, I find most Uechika really **** up a few of them. Everyone wants to do things hard and strong. Chi sao isn't about being hard and strong. It's about feeling your partner's energy (as Evan stated above) and learning to work with/around it w/o giving away what you are doing. It's about faking a guy out of his shorts, and making him feel stupid. "Strong" and "hard" guys in particular have a problem with this. Good athletes pick this up pretty quickly.
Bottom line - the ball (or rather the tape) is in George's court right now.
- Bill
About ground work being hard on your body, as Bill suggested, you can play smart. And for me, ground work is much easier on me than playing on my feet. It might surprise you. Especially when you're starting out and don't know what to do you're just spending a lot of time learning how to get air. Now *getting to the ground*, that's brutal. Breakfalls are really really rough on my body. I prefer to ground fight above all other ranges because I'm comfortable (sort of ) and happy there. I feel safer there, I guess because I've learned to defend on the ground better than on my feet, which is more volatile I think because of the constant range changes. I find it also much harder to predict what's going to come at me when I'm not on the ground rolling around.
Kami
) and happy there. I feel safer there, I guess because I've learned to defend on the ground better than on my feet, which is more volatile I think because of the constant range changes. I find it also much harder to predict what's going to come at me when I'm not on the ground rolling around.Kami
One seed, many lives.
