capoeira is not a joke

[chalkdust]

TWO GREAT VIDEOS!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S05ZdV5Gs4s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kMdafMS9ar4

[Jason Rees]

Some very interesting counters in that second video.

[chalkdust]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8y0VuZdbLIA

i like this one

[chalkdust]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6oiADjOdFg

the famous MMA knockout

[Bill Glasheen]

That's some very fun stuff, chalkdust.

We do something like this in my class, only there are some distinct differences.

1) We go for efficiency rather than athleticism.

2) I make my people contact and follow-through on all techniques. Thus it must be done slowly enough (as per the typical capoeira sessions posted) so that even head and groin shots are fine. In response, I make the recipients of all techniques respond as if they were in a Saturday matinee kung fu movie. Great fun!

3) The goal is to work into a many-on-many scenario. I call it the barroom brawl.

In any case, capoeira is it's own thing. The coordination, control, and upper body strength required to do this is phenomenal. It look like great fun, and great exercise. And putting it to music is great.

- Bill

[Bill Glasheen]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6oiADjOdFg

the famous MMA knockout

Sorry to say this, but that guy deserved to get throttled. Backing up is the absolute wrong way to face someone like this. He kept himself inside the danger zone of his opponent, and outside the reach of his own techniques. He was totally reactive rather than taking advantage of the clear opportunities afforded him by techniques like flying roundhouse kicks. Oye vey! (He wasn't even close on any of his punches.) Furthermore, he should have been able to see that rotational technique coming well before it hit. It was clear that he had no clue how to deal with a spinning hook kick. It really isn't that difficult; you have several good options.

You'd think that if he knew he was going to fight a capoeira dude, he might have spent a little time facing one. But what do I know...

Anyhow, fun KO. That's what the taequondo people call a "lottery kick." In other words you almost never hit; but when you do, you win big. I accidentally KO-ed a student one time on the old Dan Kumite number 3 when they didn't quite handle my spinning hook kick correctly. Oops!

- Bill

[Jason Rees]

That knockout kick was wicked. Very impressive speed and torque on it. I've seen very little in TKD that compares to it. The difference between that spinning heel kick and the one in TKD leads me to believe that the capoeira kick can actually generate more power.

And the balance and form to pull it off twice in quick succession like that? Very nice.

[Bill Glasheen]

I've seen very little in TKD that compares to it.

It's a spinning hook kick, Jason. A rose is a rose by any other name. And for what it's worth, good TKD fighters can throw rapid succession spinning hook kicks and/or mix them up with roundhouse kicks from either leg.

The difference between this capoeira spinning hook kick and the more generic variety is that in the former, the person executing the kick bends completely backwards and puts one hand on the ground.

The advantage: It affords a more stable platform to throw the kick. You also don't need as much adductor and oblique flexibility to throw a spinning hook kick this way.

The disadvantage: You sacrifice your ability to follow through immediately with an upper body technique. You're also in much worse shape if your partner uses the best defense against the spinning hook - go right into the eye of the hurricane and bump/control/attack the foundation.

- Bill

[Bill Glasheen]

Jason

Just to make the point... It took me 10 seconds to find three TKD spinning hook KOs on Youtube. I'm sure there are more.

Note that these guys are wearing pads, and they STILL knock the person out. Both lose their balance after contact, but it doesn't matter.

Amateur match - TKD spinning hook kick KO

TKD Olympic heavyweight finals - Spinning hook kick KO

Here's one in a K1 fight.

K1 spinning heel kick KO

- Bill

[Jason Rees]

Man, that third one was sloppy. But it still got the job done, eh? Mine's alot closer to that one than the others. My wings just aren't out there.

I agree completely on the disadvantages, and I've seen TKD guys do the things you talk about, Bill.

Yes, you can generate a knockout with a TKD spinning heel. I just wonder if having your body behind it, rather than just using hip torque, might actually generate more force behind the move, along the lines of, say, Tai Sabaki.

I don't know.

[Bill Glasheen]

I just wonder if having your body behind it, rather than just using hip torque, might actually generate more force behind the move, along the lines of, say, Tai Sabaki.

I don't know.

The more degrees of freedom of motion involved, the more total power. Don't forget that you have a hamstring contraction on contact. That's the crack on the end of the whip that makes the technique so deadly.

Biggest mistake someone did against me once in Dan Kumite #3 was block my spinning hook kick at the back of my knee with a cross-block. What's that Australian weapon with the rope and the rocks? It just makes the heel whip around faster. Oops! (I really didn't mean to KO him...)

I think any more degrees of freedom of motion on this kick are just overkill, Jason. But it is worth mentioning that some of these guys walked into their spinning hook kicks (like the Olympic HW finals). That's just helping them knock you out.

- Bill

[Bill Glasheen]

What's that Australian weapon with the rope and the rocks?

That would be the bola.



The best video I have seen of throwing one of these at something is from a kid, who understood the concept of using it to entangle the legs. I've seen similar videos where kids are using these tennis ball bolas to throw at each other as they run away. Interesting game for some crazy kids, and actually not TOO dangerous. (Just don't fall on your head.)

Throwing a tennis ball bola

Anyhow, the point was to show what happens if you block a spinning hook kick at the back of the knee. The angular momentum can be preserved, resulting in the heel whipping at the head at high speed.

- Bill

[chalkdust]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXPMacJA-t8

This is beautiful. IT is a cultural presentation in Brazil, they are signing about Africa, Capoeira and Besouro, a revolutionary legend and capoeirista!

WHO WILL BE THE FEATURE OF THIS UPCOMING MOVIE!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghmo7_5A8U8

[Bill Glasheen]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6oiADjOdFg

the famous MMA knockout

I commented earlier about how this guy deserved to be KOed because he kept backing up and staying in the capoeira fighter's range.

This is how you face such a fighter. It's not that difficult. (Sent to me by one of our Edmonton friends.) You'll need to have a YouTube account to see it, as the gang from YouTube feel it's on the extreme side. I have no idea why this one is and the previous one above isn't.

Capoeira Fighter

There's some controversy online as to whether this is real or staged. Some claim it was shot from a cell phone, and is from the movie set of Never Back Down.

- Bill

[chalkdust]

foolish capoeirista, that is not how to fight with capoeira.

there was no need to cartwheel in. the cartwheel (cant spell the brazillian name properly) is a first a conditioning excercis imo. flexibility, upper body strength, grappling and dislocating power, joint understanding and strengthening, balance, coordination, body control and awareness. all of this is trained by the various movements a capoerista is trained to do using the arms as limbs to maneuver the ground.

the actuall fight applications of the move are there. it can be used to get out of the way in certain instances. not only is it fast, with the ability to cover lots of ground when done correctly, it is also disorienting for the opponent, letting the african concepts of mandinga and malice come into play. (this is a degree of trickery, deceit, manipulation and control of ones opponent and also ones life) all of capoeira is based around this and may moves are similar to drunken boxing, meat to confuse and manipulate the opponent. as well as develop a supreme understanding of the tandien (core)

u see these concepts inn the way african basketball players mess with the guard or ball controllers. and in many stories of slaves messing with the colonizers in africa and throughout the diaspora.

black music is even a subversive prayer of help to the universe and that revolution is still in effect although i personally think that it has become confused, yet if the hip hop culture is ignorant in a sense and hampering to a black golden age, it is providing a way for ghetto people to make millions of dollars in the country related to a cultural matrix that has been actively aggressively, and violently interfering with the progress of the cultural development of africa within an african context (and of course this has happened throughout the world in many countries and cultures and is not indicative imo of the purity of africans and the evil of europeans, till it is a recent atrocious and utterly massive cultural tragedy and anyone not dumbstruck by the horror and frequent pathetic state and and pain (as well as the courageous nobility and triumph) of the african condition especially in the colonized lands needs to open up their history books and remember why america is what it is and remember that it is not really separated from SA, the caribbean and the canadas.