To me this virtue stuff is making a simple thing or simple goal way more complex than it is or should be, and in part I think this tends to obfuscate the whole purpose of martial arts. Almost looks like just good marketing doesn't it?
I do not believe that because of Sanchin or because of any style's kata or whatever there is any more connection to virtue or any less or more of a need for virtuosity in MA than in any other endeavor or study. If spirituality is indeed a critical part of the mix by someone's definition then it is because virtue is an intrinsic human component not because someone came up with the mind body spirit thing...
Any teacher, such as a music teacher, or Basketball Coach should be virtuous. Who would want to bring their kid to a less than virtuous teacher/coach/mentor, or train with one? This goes for students too. Who would want to teach a less than virtuous student? A Uechi sensei had mentioned to me that MA should in part be there to turn these types around, meaning that as teachers we must also commit time and energy to making non-virtuous students become virtuous students. I say that is Bul$#%^! Folks are confused if they think this is what MA are for, as historically they are not, except when you look at those MA traditions where children were raised in the temple/home and were taught MA as part of religion and philosophy – a complete education and upbringing, something hardly comparable to the modern American dojo. 200 junior yellow belts learning proper dojo respect and courtesy is no different or more profound than the same values (that should) be taught and enforced in any school sporting activity.
Dana you strike me as a very virtuous person who could bring ‘spirituality’ to just about anything you do…and that speaks very well of you. But IMO there is no more or less of a connection to virtuosity in MA than in any other activity. This is a given IMO.
The focus, however, should be on the quality and substance of the instruction. When you bring a child to a piano teacher one does not minimize the ability to play or teach the instrument based on virtue. If a piano teacher cannot play a piano well or know how to instill this ability in the student to his/her full potential then few would use the services of the teacher regardless of how virtuous they are. Likewise folks going to study to learn piano, or play basketball are there for that reason, to learn and become proficient in that activity. This is also the case for most adults who come to the dojo to learn MA. Many will not admit it BUT the truth is that most of them are there to learn Self Defense…. This is true for many more, and to a much greater degree than most will admit.
To wit:
What does the curriculum teach?
Does it teach, and is the core of the content focused on SD or something else and how do you know this for sure?
Dana Sheets wrote:
So today's western Uechi practitioners have a choice and a challenge. Should they too seek to preserve the old ways
As a style Uechi, compared to most other styles just came on the scene yesterday. So to me 'old ways' doesn't quite fit, maybe the phrase Original Recipe would be more appropriate. This version (and the Chinese ones that spawned it) was virtually erased from history when Uechi was passed and then morphed ala Kenei and friends for mass western market consumption. This huge issue and impact cannot be ignored and has been acknowledged by high ranking Uechi-ka.
Dana Sheets wrote:
Should they seek - as Kanei Uechi did - to preserve the old ways while joining into the sports movement
The best information we get is that Kenei did not preserve the Original Recipe and instead went along with the whole marketing thing after WWII.
Quite understandable but also very much not 'the old way.'
Dana Sheets wrote:
or should they seek to develop from Uechi-Ryu a structured system that deals with contemporary self defense/combat situations beyond ancient habitual acts of empty-handed physical violence?
As mentioned by Marcus the present curriculum does not clearly address these elements, at least not in the raw modern format, not systematically and not though a progressive set of drills.
Dana Sheets wrote:
Kanbun Uechi did not teach sport. He taught self improvement and self-defense.
IMO the only self improvement that Kanbun taught was self improving how to whoop butt. The self improvement thing in Japanese Culture is a given in almost any activity and to the Western world serves mainly as marketing buzzword. A martial art elixir if you will, hell it'll do everything for you including re-grow hair, just don't ask too many questions about the original martial training applications and progression..
Dana Sheets wrote:
And the point of my argument is that in the Okinawan karate tradition they were not looking for efficiency in the sense of transmitting a quantity of material as quickly as possible.
I do not agree.
This seems to suggest that "stretching" martial training out (longer than needed) served some greater purpose in the old days. This is absolute folly IMO and only serves a purpose when an art is converted into a commodity (Do) for purposes of mass marketing to hungry foreign masses.
"Sell the sizzle not the steak..."
Dana Sheets wrote:
Yes - a father would want to teach his son all he knows, but not in a week or even a year.
Any good teacher would very simply teach what he could at the correct pace for the student learning the material.. Nothing more, nothing less, nothing mystical, no sizzle required.
At some point folks need to decide if what they are training is a glorified martial tea ceremony, or other "self improvement exercise removed from a realistic martial picture or if they are training for martial purposes. There is a big difference.
These arts were not originally created to serve as a glorified tea ceremony, there are a myriad of Japanese arts that emphasize ART of process over function. The heritage of true martial arts is in the MARTIAL, because if you weren't still alive then no one could see how well you could perform that tea ceremony or trim that neat bonsai plant that sat outside the dojo. Life always comes first, survival must come first, it has to and was at the root of how all this MA stuff got started in the first place.
This emphasis change DID occur but let's be clear that this only happened as a result of "Japanification" and mass marketing and export of what was one of the only commodities that could be sold at the time this phenomena began after WWII. Folks must recognize the difference and the reality of the intent of the original creators and founders of these Martial systems.
The truth is that these changes convoluted and distorted the purpose and progression that once existed in these arts and it is only in the last decade or so that it has become clear and is still becoming clearer that many of these arts were never intended to live up to their advertising.
Yes folks must choose, but they must fully realize what it is that they are choosing and what it is that has already been removed from their ability to choose from.
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Still the context is there and I don't want to disrespect Bill, Fred or anyone else.
