This morning when watching the news in bed, my wife started asking me questions. I'm an avid reader of current events, and have several periodical subscriptions online. She comes out from her world now and then like a bear out of its cave, and wants me to give her the low-down.
She was curious about the Berg video, and asked if anyone could see it. I asked her if she wanted to. So...a little bit of Googling and I found a long list of sites that had it. I went to consumptionjunction.com because I knew I wouldn't be tagged with the "porn" label online and begin getting volumes of spam coming to my virgin account. (BTW, there are ways around this...)
First and foremost, I was pretty much aware of what I would see. Second, I knew what the whole purpose of the act was, and viewed it in that context.
I'm one of those people that sits in a movie theatre, and sees the editing work in real time. It ruins the experience for me a little, seeing how they "fake" a gruesome or impossible event on the big screen. But in a way it's fun to put yourself in the shoes of the director and editor who work together to create an effect that can't really be filmed.
That said, the video I saw struck me as being highly edited. Furthermore, it's a pretty bad editing job. Still, the intended visceral response comes through even with all the knowledge of what the cameraman, assassin, and editor are doing to create the effect they desire.
What am I talking about? Well... One sees a docile Berg telling his name and his family relations. Scene changes. Then there is an interminable length of time where the assassin reads from a paper script in monotone. It goes on, and on, and on... Berg sits in front as if drugged, in a totally passive state with arms and ankles bound. The assassin's accomplices stand hooded. One of them on the right is uncomfortable, and repeatedly fidgets through the monotone diatribe.
The next part of the video is interesting. The "screaming" begins before one actually sees the actions of the assassin on Berg. Then there is a quick "blip" to the accomplices holding Berg's body down, and the assassin taking forever to saw through the neck. The obvious lack of skill in the use of the blade adds to the total effect.
Perhaps the video I looked at was doctored, but I don't think so. It leads me to believe that what they did isn't quite the same as what they intendeded to portray on the video. I'm certain that the effect they desired was still elicited in the minds of most. But what they attempted to portray - total control of and brutal act against a living, innocent effigy of the U.S. - wasn't what really happened.
A final note... Don't look at this if you have any doubts. Even if you know the ending and all the video effects used, it is a disturbing act worthy only of prison psychopaths. (Ironic, when you think about it...) My wife walked away from the screen. I do however hope enough people see it so that the world knows there are people out there who hate this way and act in this fashion. We shouldn't be naive.
- Bill
About the Berg video
Moderator: Available
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Bill Glasheen
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Stryke
RANT MODE ON 
I hope people dont see it , have some respect for the poor man and his family .
I feel it`s just as bad as showing the pictures of the Iraqi prisoners being humiliated . And the footage of the American contractors ... It`s nothing but voyeurisim . Theres no longer any ethic by the general populace , i remeber the US complaining about US prisoners being shown on tv , it`s against the geneva convention no ?
these things are ok now ? , lets continue to desensitize ourselves to attrocity , lets analyse this stuff on it`s editing quality , lets compare it to the movies .....
I`m sure youve seen dead people Bill , I know I have , it`s never fun , I stay out of these threads for personal reasons , I`d flame you all on your hipocrosy .
Akil continualy writes about how bad the west is in it`s treatment of the Iraqis and implys such treatment is deserved .
the others imply that it will happen in a minority because war is hell .
well i think your both right , both groups .
The sick thing is in your own way your both getting of on it , it`s the lower base side of humanity , we all have it , hell when were discussing reality self defence ive been known to embrace it .
weve got to get to the point were we see each other a shuman beings , I know youve read debecker , and his thoughts on conditioning , what are we doing when our standards continue to relax , In the name of freedom is it ?
or in the name of entertainment .
who needs the movies , we got the real thing .
Talk to any real vets , sure you have , they tell some good storys , but If you know them well enough you realise the price .
were focusing on the story and not the price .
Politics , posturing , payback , is this what this wars about , It is if we continue to let the media run it . And if we continue to buy that , hell doesnt it make us feel important to have such strong opinions about something
War aint a movie , thats why it`s so ugly , thats why we consider ever getting involved in one . Lets not accept it`s uglyness , expose ourselves to it , lets be aware but not voyeurs , the soldiers pay the price of attrocity so we dont have to .
we demean them and ourselves when we try get a front row seat .
the cost of these wars may not be the billions in tax payers money , it`s going to be the effect it has on the hearts and minds of the world civilians .
anyway rant off , nothing personal Bill , just an opinion , of one who is truly dissapointed in humanity .
I hope people dont see it , have some respect for the poor man and his family .
I feel it`s just as bad as showing the pictures of the Iraqi prisoners being humiliated . And the footage of the American contractors ... It`s nothing but voyeurisim . Theres no longer any ethic by the general populace , i remeber the US complaining about US prisoners being shown on tv , it`s against the geneva convention no ?
these things are ok now ? , lets continue to desensitize ourselves to attrocity , lets analyse this stuff on it`s editing quality , lets compare it to the movies .....
I`m sure youve seen dead people Bill , I know I have , it`s never fun , I stay out of these threads for personal reasons , I`d flame you all on your hipocrosy .
Akil continualy writes about how bad the west is in it`s treatment of the Iraqis and implys such treatment is deserved .
the others imply that it will happen in a minority because war is hell .
well i think your both right , both groups .
The sick thing is in your own way your both getting of on it , it`s the lower base side of humanity , we all have it , hell when were discussing reality self defence ive been known to embrace it .
weve got to get to the point were we see each other a shuman beings , I know youve read debecker , and his thoughts on conditioning , what are we doing when our standards continue to relax , In the name of freedom is it ?
or in the name of entertainment .
who needs the movies , we got the real thing .
Talk to any real vets , sure you have , they tell some good storys , but If you know them well enough you realise the price .
were focusing on the story and not the price .
Politics , posturing , payback , is this what this wars about , It is if we continue to let the media run it . And if we continue to buy that , hell doesnt it make us feel important to have such strong opinions about something
War aint a movie , thats why it`s so ugly , thats why we consider ever getting involved in one . Lets not accept it`s uglyness , expose ourselves to it , lets be aware but not voyeurs , the soldiers pay the price of attrocity so we dont have to .
we demean them and ourselves when we try get a front row seat .
the cost of these wars may not be the billions in tax payers money , it`s going to be the effect it has on the hearts and minds of the world civilians .
anyway rant off , nothing personal Bill , just an opinion , of one who is truly dissapointed in humanity .
I feel cheapened as a human being by the events currently unfolding in that part of the world.
When the Gulf War was being shone on NBC, with Tom Brokaw and that sickly green battle, I felt a little twinge, like something shut off. So, few years go by, I seem to develop like a well-balanced individual.
Then, I'm sitting in my Honor's English class at around 8:50 in the AM when our history teacher barges in, says the WTC and the Pentagon are on fire. My first thought; "so what? Put the fires out." I guess I have in my mind the image of flames from a burn pit lightly imposed upon those structures. I don't think anyone could have envisioned what really happened.
My next class was advanced math. In there, we normally learned how to work a TI-83 calculator. Today, we were watching TV. I got to see what happened. We saw the second plane hit the tower. Over and over. They started talking about all the people who had died. I wanted to feel deeply about it, but something just wouldn't. It felt distant, like it wasn't happening.
Anyway, war breaks out, things go down, missions get accomplished, CNN is on tv. I see that same sickly green night vision watching a tank roll down one of the streets in Baghdad. I remember two of my best friends are over there in the National Guard. I feel sick in my stomach. I lay down and cry for about two hours.
Sorry, no point. Just a 20 year old gimp kid wondering where exactly the world went so nuts.
When the Gulf War was being shone on NBC, with Tom Brokaw and that sickly green battle, I felt a little twinge, like something shut off. So, few years go by, I seem to develop like a well-balanced individual.
Then, I'm sitting in my Honor's English class at around 8:50 in the AM when our history teacher barges in, says the WTC and the Pentagon are on fire. My first thought; "so what? Put the fires out." I guess I have in my mind the image of flames from a burn pit lightly imposed upon those structures. I don't think anyone could have envisioned what really happened.
My next class was advanced math. In there, we normally learned how to work a TI-83 calculator. Today, we were watching TV. I got to see what happened. We saw the second plane hit the tower. Over and over. They started talking about all the people who had died. I wanted to feel deeply about it, but something just wouldn't. It felt distant, like it wasn't happening.
Anyway, war breaks out, things go down, missions get accomplished, CNN is on tv. I see that same sickly green night vision watching a tank roll down one of the streets in Baghdad. I remember two of my best friends are over there in the National Guard. I feel sick in my stomach. I lay down and cry for about two hours.
Sorry, no point. Just a 20 year old gimp kid wondering where exactly the world went so nuts.
Cody Stephens
Isshinryu Karate
Isshinryu Karate
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Guest
Good post Marcus!
I've seen enough magot ridden corpses and ones missing parts to not really want to go looking for another.
Putting these scenes on the internet is sick, and to spend time searching for them is sicker.
But then there is always a crowd of people rubber necking at an accident scene, they disgust me.
It's one thing to have to deal with a death and a body, it's another to get off on it.
Reveling in the actual murder of an innocent man is vile the way I see the world.
I've seen enough magot ridden corpses and ones missing parts to not really want to go looking for another.
Putting these scenes on the internet is sick, and to spend time searching for them is sicker.
But then there is always a crowd of people rubber necking at an accident scene, they disgust me.
It's one thing to have to deal with a death and a body, it's another to get off on it.
Reveling in the actual murder of an innocent man is vile the way I see the world.
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Bill Glasheen
- Posts: 17299
- Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
- Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY
I'm happy you expressed yourself. What you say is comforting, and makes most of us believe that society has a heart and soul.nothing personal Bill , just an opinion
By the way, you note I did not provide any links. You may drive safely by without being tempted to rubberneck.
There are martial professionals that need to deal with the baser part of society on a daily basis. There is a tremendous psychological cost, as has been discussed by authors such as Grossman. We should appreciate those who defend our societies and protect our citizens on the street. They must view these atrocities, understand them, and deal with the vermin that commit them. We may think that society is going to heck but...not really. Sadly some things never change.
My wife and I are medical professionals, and I in fact recently applied for a forensic epidemiologist position funded by the department of homeland security. (However I'm now working elsewhere in the medical field) Thankfully there are professionals who can deal with the mess, and let the rest of society get on with their peaceful business.
It's interesting seeing who posted here so far on this sensitive subject, and where they live. That's not a negative, BTW. Outside opinions are more than welcome.
I also ponder the history of this nation, and the acts of inhumanity that drove it to action. "Remember the Alamo" becomes metaphor for a repeating ugliness in history.
To all others who choose to post and comment, keep the tone civil as above. Thank you in advance.
- Bill
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Guest
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Stryke
This is what i hope for , unfortunately theres to many who will cross that line for a better view , it undermines there sacrfice , what are they fighting for if not our peaceful buisness ..... I dont want a society that enjoys walking knee deep in the muck along with these brave heroes .Thankfully there are professionals who can deal with the mess, and let the rest of society get on with their peaceful business.
Respect them , honour them , but dont join them , once we all try live with the horror that is war , then it`s no longer worth fighting for
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Dana Sheets
- Posts: 2715
- Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2002 6:01 am
When I was in school as an undergraduate communications major we were told that we were going to do an exercise in judgement calls.
We were shown footage from a direct AP wire service of the press conference of a public official. During the press conference the individual was expected to resign. He handed out several envelopes to people on the stage. He said something briefly into the mic. Then he opened up a final envelope that contained a large revolver. He popped one end in his mouth and shot. He collapsed behind the podium and pandemonium ensued.
We were told that we were the station managers at the local major market news station. (Which happened to be Indianapolis, IN). We were told that footage like this comes in call the time and it was up to us to decide:
1. If we were going to cover the story
2. How much of that footage we would show to the viewers during the report
3. Would we have the newscaster say any kind of disclaimer before the footage or put up a card with a disclaimer about the content of the footage.
4. How often would we run the story that night.
I think there were six groups.
Most of the groups chose to run the story and show the footage to the point of the man passing out the envelopes. Then they said they could cut back to the anchor and have the anchor say that the individual then committed suicide.
One group was going to have the anchor say that the man commited suicide by putting the revolver in his mouth and firing.
One group was going to show the footage until the moment before he pulled the trigger and do a freeze frame.
One group was going to show the footage, uncut, from beginning to end.
What I'm trying to say is that back in the day, it was often the politicans and the journalists who were the gatekeepers of this kind of material. They often based their decisions on what they thought the American people would tolerate. (What the FCC likes to call community standards and interests) Today - because of the internet, those gatekeepers are no longer able to control the flow of content and images. We have all become communities of one - making those decisions for ourselves.
There are several thoughts running through my mind...
I was shown pictures of concentration camp victims in school so that I would know the horror. Never forget, Never repeat. Did my viewing of those photos dishonor those individuals or did it ensure that they did not die in vain?
If I had never been shown photos of the horrors of the concentration camp victims would I be as adamant as I am today about equal rights for all?
The process of enlightenment often takes a path through the dark side of human nature.
For what it's worth - I'm not going to watch the video. However - that doesn't mean I disapprove of those who see it. I'm making my choice. And I expect that some day the images of Mr. Berg will be used in history classes - so that we may not forget, and not repeat the atrocities of our past.
Dana
We were shown footage from a direct AP wire service of the press conference of a public official. During the press conference the individual was expected to resign. He handed out several envelopes to people on the stage. He said something briefly into the mic. Then he opened up a final envelope that contained a large revolver. He popped one end in his mouth and shot. He collapsed behind the podium and pandemonium ensued.
We were told that we were the station managers at the local major market news station. (Which happened to be Indianapolis, IN). We were told that footage like this comes in call the time and it was up to us to decide:
1. If we were going to cover the story
2. How much of that footage we would show to the viewers during the report
3. Would we have the newscaster say any kind of disclaimer before the footage or put up a card with a disclaimer about the content of the footage.
4. How often would we run the story that night.
I think there were six groups.
Most of the groups chose to run the story and show the footage to the point of the man passing out the envelopes. Then they said they could cut back to the anchor and have the anchor say that the individual then committed suicide.
One group was going to have the anchor say that the man commited suicide by putting the revolver in his mouth and firing.
One group was going to show the footage until the moment before he pulled the trigger and do a freeze frame.
One group was going to show the footage, uncut, from beginning to end.
What I'm trying to say is that back in the day, it was often the politicans and the journalists who were the gatekeepers of this kind of material. They often based their decisions on what they thought the American people would tolerate. (What the FCC likes to call community standards and interests) Today - because of the internet, those gatekeepers are no longer able to control the flow of content and images. We have all become communities of one - making those decisions for ourselves.
There are several thoughts running through my mind...
I was shown pictures of concentration camp victims in school so that I would know the horror. Never forget, Never repeat. Did my viewing of those photos dishonor those individuals or did it ensure that they did not die in vain?
If I had never been shown photos of the horrors of the concentration camp victims would I be as adamant as I am today about equal rights for all?
The process of enlightenment often takes a path through the dark side of human nature.
For what it's worth - I'm not going to watch the video. However - that doesn't mean I disapprove of those who see it. I'm making my choice. And I expect that some day the images of Mr. Berg will be used in history classes - so that we may not forget, and not repeat the atrocities of our past.
Dana
Did you show compassion today?
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Bill Glasheen
- Posts: 17299
- Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
- Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY
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benzocaine
- Posts: 2107
- Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2003 12:20 pm
- Location: St. Thomas
Dana,
I could not have said it any better!
Just seeing a picture of that man bound with those monsters behind him created a red flag for me. I knew I'd have that video burn't into my mind forever.
911's videos of the peoiple jumping to their death from the tower rather than get burnt to death still haunts me.
But I too will not cast judgement on anyone who views it. It's crazy to think though, that there are people out there who actually enjoy that sort of thing. Chilling.
Ben Hathaway
I could not have said it any better!
Just seeing a picture of that man bound with those monsters behind him created a red flag for me. I knew I'd have that video burn't into my mind forever.
911's videos of the peoiple jumping to their death from the tower rather than get burnt to death still haunts me.
But I too will not cast judgement on anyone who views it. It's crazy to think though, that there are people out there who actually enjoy that sort of thing. Chilling.
Ben Hathaway
Last edited by benzocaine on Tue May 18, 2004 2:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
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HALFORD E. JONES
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DON'T LOSE YOUR HEADS OVER THIS TOPIC!
The beheading of people is a time-honored udnertaking throughout history. The Middle Ages and the Crusades,etc. are full of accounts of the slaughter that took days,if not weeks, when cities were captured. The Japanese(Nips and Japs) of WWII did similar things, as noted in a book on THE RAPE OF NANKING,where you can see photos of such. In Saudi Arabia, beheadings are commonplace as punishment. Certain days of the week you can wander down to see the public spectacles. Ironically, our lynchings so common in this country were SPECTACLES and right after discussing the unfortunate beheading of Berg on National Public Radio, the photos of such lynchings were discussed and seen as a history, something that if it they had not been photographed, no one would know about them. The hosts of that show etc. never saw any parallels,of course. Head hunting is also a custom with a long history and still survives as does witchcraft,etc. Have a great day. 