Why I am in favor of Capital punishment.

[benzocaine]

This man will get a long sentence in a "humane" European Prison. We'd kill him like he deserves here in Virginia.
http://www.globeandmail.com/servlet/s ... rnational/


Belgian pedophile convicted


Associated Press


POSTED AT 9:17 AM EDT Thursday, Jun 17, 2004










Arlon, Belgium — A jury Thursday convicted Belgium's public enemy No. 1, Marc Dutroux, for a series of child rapes and murders in a case that has horrified the country for nearly a decade.

The 12-member jury convicted Mr. Dutroux, a 47-year-old ex-convict, of abducting six girls, leading to their torture and deaths, in 1995-96. It also found him guilty of murdering two of the girls and an accomplice.

The jury was being polled on 243 counts in all against Mr. Dutroux and his three co-defendants, including his ex-wife and two other alleged accomplices.

The case has riveted Belgium and beyond for almost a decade, and television stations broadcast the verdict live from outside the courthouse in this southeastern city.

The Dutroux case led to reforms of the judiciary and police.

Mr. Dutroux, who faces life in prison, was out on parole at the time of the crimes after serving a prison sentence for raping young girls in the 1980s.

Relatives of the victims heading into the courthouse said that they were hoping for closure.

“I don't think this has helped me with the grieving process, but at least I will know that my granddaughter is avenged,” Jeanine Lejeune, whose eight-year-old granddaughter was one of the first to disappear, told RTBF television.

Mr. Dutroux and the three other defendants were not inside the courtroom while the jury was being polled, so as to avoid any potential pressure or influence on the jurors, officials said. The defendants will be brought in afterward when the decision is announced by the court.

If convicted, all will be given an opportunity to address the court on sentencing, after which the jury and three judges will retire together to make a decision. Those deliberations could take hours or days.

The court will then reconvene and the presiding judge will read the entire verdict and sentences.

Mr. Dutroux admitted to kidnapping and sexually abusing two girls — Sabine Dardenne, then 12, and Laetitia Delhez, then 14 — who were rescued from a basement prison in his house two days before his Aug. 13, 1996, arrest.

He denied, however, killing An Marchal, 17, and Eefje Lambrecks, 19, as well as the alleged accomplice, Bernard Weinstein.

He also denies involvement in the abduction and deaths of two eight-year-olds, Julie Lejeune and Melissa Russo, both of whom starved to death in his basement in early 1996 while he was serving a short jail term for car theft.

Also in the dock are Mr. Dutroux's ex-wife, Michelle Martin, and two other alleged accomplices, Michel Lelièvre and Michel Nihoul.

Mr. Martin apologized to the court for not feeding Julie and Melissa while Mr. Dutroux was in jail for four months for car theft. Mr. Lelièvre admits abducting but not raping or killing Ms. Marchal and Ms. Lambrecks, while Mr. Nihoul denies involvement in the abductions.

Mr. Dutroux sought to paint himself as the pawn of a still-hidden crime ring that was abducting young girls in eastern Europe to become prostitutes — a scenario rejected by prosecutors, who said they found no evidence. Mr. Dutroux accused Mr. Nihoul of being his link to the syndicate, a charge that Mr. Nihoul denied.

Ms. Martin and Mr. Lelièvre face possible maximum 30-year sentences and Mr. Nihoul 20 years if found guilty.

In Belgium, no appeal against a jury verdict is possible, except on procedural grounds. In that case, the Cour de Cassation, the supreme court, reviews the verdict.

Belgian media reported that the 3½-month trial cost the state the equivalent of $7.5-million Canadian.

[Bill Glasheen]

Ben

First, thanks for bringing the post back.

This forum is about all topics of interest to martial artists. Even world politics and automobiles are fair game. Consider it like a sit-down discussion after the workout over beer. As it turns out though, it is a great segue to a topic I wanted to bring up.

Here is what I tried to post after you first removed this, Ben.

Opinions about capital punishment are varied. As it turns out though, this is highly relevant as a martial arts topic. I've been traveling a lot lately, and have run across some interesting material describing the physiological and psychological basis of sociopathy. I want to post some of it here, as I believe it's very important to know the makeup of "our worst nightmare."

But before I do that, Ben, I want to ask you a question. Can you articulate exactly why you believe in capital punishment? Be as thorough and specific as you can.

Please, let's all be open, but civil. This is a complex subject, and all opinions/ideas are worthy of expression - as long as they aren't disparaging of individuals.

- Bill

[benzocaine]

But before I do that, Ben, I want to ask you a question. Can you articulate exactly why you believe in capital punishment? Be as thorough and specific as you can.

I'll have to do that later as I am at work. If I am to be as thorough and specific as I can.
Maybe by then this thread will have turned into something different as threads seem to do.
To put it basically, I am about to be a parent. If anyone did that to my child I would kill him. If the police got to him first I would take solace in knowing I could watch him die via needle or electric chair. I would never have closure knowing he was alive somewhere. Surely some "prison justice" would possible happen. That might help some.

[2Green]

I don't believe in capital punishment, or jail as punishment. I also have no faith in any legal system (not "justice" system) to properly mete out appropriate sentencing, especially here in Canada.

Here we have a "time for crime" system which most criminals are very happy with, on the offchance they will actually get convicted. That is, on the offchance they will actually get caught. So, it's a temporary setback in their social career which they can actually put to good use by learning to be better criminals from their peers, and then get out in jig time for good behavior.

Now, contrast that model with this one:
Jails exist not to punish, but to segregate those who would harm society from that very society itself. Once convicted, the assumption is that you are there permanently, due to your criminal behavior.
While incarcerated, you live undera restricted set of "rights" as opposed to free society, whom you have violated. You do not enjoy the "rights and freedoms" of the general populace, under the law. Do you want out?

Oh, well then, YOU must actively and sincerely demonstrate that there is NO POSSIBILITY that you could ever harm society again, and if the justice sytem is convinced to give you your ONE CHANCE then you will have it, under severe restrictions.

If you fall under the unfortunate category of offenders who statistically have been proven "likely to re-offend" then there is no chance of you ever being released into free society. Ever.
******************************

I see the beauty of this as a system where society is "served and protected" and yet if some horrendous mistake were made, the prisoner is still alive to be released.
Any system which executes an innocent person is sufficiently flawed to be condemned.
Execution is not a deterrent to psychopathic crime anyway, and those are the most horrific types. The serials, the massers, the snipers, the serial rapists.
However, knowing that a great wall exists to permanently separate society from its harmers would, I think, be a deterrent provided it could be realistically done.

NM

[Jesse Taub]

that's a fair opinion, and i have no problem with folks getting what they have coming, but i just dont trust the government to do the job right.

the government cant even run a post office out of the red while fedex and ups do fine every year, and we trust it to figure out who deserves to die? sorry folks, but i think we should be giving the government less power, not more.