It WON'T go away

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Bill Glasheen
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It WON'T go away

Post by Bill Glasheen »

Once again, we see the true nature of an enemy that faces the United States, those who are friendly to them, innocents who are nearby, and all non-Arabs (and/or non Muslims) who do business in Saudi Arabia and Iraq.

Report: Johnson beheaded by captors in Saudi Arabia

Last time I wrote about the Berg video, the response from some was venemous. How could I? Anyone who wanted to know more and who sought to understand the phenomenon by witnessing first hand was sick. Sick!

To some extent, I understand. Yes, there is much sickness here. This is the work of sociopaths. And the civil among us will be angered. The civil among us can't fathom this type of evil, and don't really want to be reminded of it.

However, I will not be quiet. I only seek to be understood.

Those who perpetrate such acts don't get it. This country is a loose coalition of diverse interests at best. We rarely agree about anything. But it is a sleeping giant. Bomb Pearl Harbor and see what happens. Fly some planes into the WTC, and see what happens.

Engage in this kind of sickness as a tool of diplomacy, and see what happens.

You want Bush reelected this November? Keep it up. You are rapidly becoming Michael Moore's worst nightmare. Problem is, this isn't a dream. It's reality. The rest is politics.

And I haven't even tapped the tip of my thoughts on the matter. I am instead waiting for an opportune moment, means, and audience to express it.

And I will NEVER forget.

And I won't be silenced.

- Bill
benzocaine
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Post by benzocaine »

I am sure the vast majority of the Muslim world see's these bastards for what they are. Al Queda is going to lose a lot of sympathy over this.

So what do we do? Tuck our tails and run, or fight them until the last one is eliminated?
Newton
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For every action there is an....

Post by Newton »

Quite the contrary. Bush's actions have PLACED us in harm's way.

Or as Newton's third law of physics states:

"For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction."
Doug Erickson
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Post by Doug Erickson »

Newton: Your timeline is incorrect.

The chronology was:

First, the 9/11 terrorist attacks.

Then came Bush's reaction.

If the beheadings are a reaction to Bush, they are a reaction to Bush's reaction to about 3,000 innocent Americans' deaths.

-Doug
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Bill Glasheen
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Post by Bill Glasheen »

Newton, you are entitled to your opinion, and there really is no way to prove you are right or wrong. And I thank you for your contribution.

But I will point this out. Take a look at this photo.

Image

This innocent man's death - one of thousands on September 11 - was brought to you by the same organization that is now performing ritualistic, slow, deliberately cruel beheadings of civilians. And the stated reasons for the actions are the same. Don't take my word for it; do your own research. These people want Westerners out of Saudi Arabia, and they want their brothers back. And there's other ramblings about Jews and infidels.

So...

Did Bush put this man pictured above in harm's way?

How long has Al Qaeda been around anyhow?

Was this most recent act in Iraq, or did it have anything at all to do with Iraq?

What of Daniel Pearl's beheading? What was the stated reason for his beheading?

I'll stop there.

- Bill
cxt
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Post by cxt »

Newton

Right---it was our fault that a religious fanatic decided to kill 3000+ innocent people.

Yeah, that makes good rational sense.

And the Buddist shrine that was "desicrated" (sp) in Thailand--they had that coming right?? The Buddist man later beheaded--no doubt he asked for it??

The attacks on Thai police and government offices and people--they deserved that right??

The 22 folks taken hostage and slain in Saudi---they did something to provoke their own deaths??

The folks blown to pieces in Italy--They also had it coming??

The innocent Iraqs killed in the last round of car bombings--no doubt they had sinned greviously and deserved their fate?

The folks injured in the first WTC bombing attempt--they also asked for it??

And of course Berg and Pearl also provoked thier own slaying??

You know Newton you may be on the right track here--its seems clear that all we have to be left alone and allowed to live peaceful lives is do whatever Al Quadia tells us to do.

Its such good advice that it remind's me of another good quote;

Something about "peace in our time"

Oh yeah thats right--pre-WW2 and the policy of appeasing Hitler--and you know how well that turned out--Right??
Newton
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Here there everywhere

Post by Newton »

Ostensibly that is the knee jerk reaction. That 9/11 rationalizes and justifies every aggressive action we initiate- no matter how tenuous the connection it is with the original assault. Reminds me somehow of Deputy Dog getting sucker punched. Where's de bad guy? He's over there. No over there! Get em!

We have to face the consequences of our actions. PAST and present. As country we cannot even bear to hear the names of our soldiers lost in battle or view photographs of their coffins. Certainly we are not privy to see the tragic loss of civilian life lost in these countries we are liberating. Has terrorism lessened since our military actions commenced in Iraq? Or we just become more of a target?
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Bill Glasheen
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Post by Bill Glasheen »

Good points, and good questions. We may not be able to answer your questions to your satisfaction.

Let me ask you this, Newton. If nothing had been done since 9/11, would we have been any safer? You might want to read the report of the 9/11 commission. It suggested that the fantastic events like 9/11 (which was originally planned with TEN planes) can no longer happen because Al Qaeda lost its base in Afghanistan.

Iraq is Iraq. It remains and will remain a sore point of debate.

This beheading was in Saudi Arabia, Newton.
Johnson, who worked for Lockheed Martin in Saudi Arabia, was seized June 12 by a group calling itself Al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula. The organization is believed to be headed by Al Qaeda's chief in the kingdom, Abdullah-aziz al-Moqrin. On June 15, Johnson's kidnapers issued a 72-hour ultimatum threatening to kill the hostage unless Saudi Arabia frees Al Qaeda militants. Three days later, on June 18, Johnson was beheaded, Saudi-owned Al-Arabiya reported.
- Fox News

What's this got to to with Bush? The connection is indirect at best.
As country we cannot even bear to hear the names of our soldiers lost in battle or view photographs of their coffins. Certainly we are not privy to see the tragic loss of civilian life lost in these countries we are liberating.
Why do you find this so unusual? When has it ever been a policy of any country to publicize details of the loss of its young soldiers, or show all the details of collateral damage?

And have you thought to compare the loss of civilian life when the U.S. is involved in military action vs. any other power in any other point in history? When in the history of military warfare has a country welcomed the press to tag along and open itself to criticism for inappropriate behavior?

And when in history do you remember a country publicizing the prosecution of mistreatment of POWs by its own military?

By the way, I personally believe this is off topic. Just read my quote above concerning the Johnson kidnapping and beheading; it confirms my opinion.

- Bill
Last edited by Bill Glasheen on Fri Jun 18, 2004 9:11 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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RACastanet
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Post by RACastanet »

Grr.... They are like cockroaches. We must kill them all. If even one lives, there is one too many!

Newton, are you one of them? How can you possibly justify what al Queda is doing to innocent civilians?

Rich
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Bill Glasheen
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Post by Bill Glasheen »

Sen. John Kerry called the killing a “grotesque act.” In a statement, the Democratic candidate for president said, "My prayers and deepest sympathies are with the family and friends of Paul Johnson. Americans are united against the terrorists who committed this abhorrent act against an American civilian in Saudi Arabia."
See more here.

American hostage's headless body found

By the way, check out "TIME LINE: The reach of al-Qaida" in that article. Pretty neat graphic. The timeline starts in 1992, and the vast majority of attacks occured from 1992 to 2000. Guess who was president then?

- Bill
Guest

Post by Guest »

I'd be tempted to turn them all into glass sandwiches.

Hey some empty force memory lane stuff.

http://banffuechiryu.tripod.com/collectingheads2.wmv

seems to me the last thread had a few unanswered questions...maybe this time eh! :wink:
Jesse Taub
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Post by Jesse Taub »

RACastanet wrote:Grr.... They are like cockroaches. We must kill them all. If even one lives, there is one too many!

Newton, are you one of them? How can you possibly justify what al Queda is doing to innocent civilians?

Rich
slow down there....not everyone with a different opinion is a terrorist. I certainly dont think he was justifying the killing of a hostage.

Jus.ti.fy
1. To demonstrate or prove to be just, right, or valid: justified each budgetary expense as necessary; anger that is justified by the circumstances.
2. To declare free of blame; absolve. (dictionary.com)

the guy never said that the killing was just, he was just pointing out the fact every decision ever made is made for a reason, whether we think it's stupid or not.

it would certainly be faulty to blame GW for the 9/11 attacks and for the preexisting anti-western sentiment in the middle east. It is likely that the prevailing sentiment is left over from our 19th century imperialism in the area as well as our continued support of the israeli state (whole other can of worms).

Lets not jump down each-other's throats: no one wants to see innocent american hostages killed.
Listen to: "Red Clay," Freddie Hubbard
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RACastanet
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Post by RACastanet »

"Musical reccommendations: "Little Worlds," -Bela Fleck and the Flecktones"

We may not agree on the disposition of al-Qauda, but I love Bela Fleck's music.
:wink:
Rich
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Jesse Taub
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Post by Jesse Taub »

:wink:

I'll drink to that
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Bill Glasheen
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Post by Bill Glasheen »

I have always felt that a politician is to be judged by the animosities he excites among his opponents.
- Sir Winston Churchill

A message worth saying is worth repeating. Occasionally it gets drowned out in the static of other issues. Once the signal to noise ratio improves, it's easier to hear and comprehend.

This is a difficult subject, and these are difficult times. There will be losses. There will be hand wringing. There will be accusations of fault. There will be agendas rearing their ugly heads.

I never lose sight of evil. Such actions are begging a response. They will get one, though not the one desired.

- Bill
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