I understand the whole "optimizing" of the body by turning off digestion and getting more blood to places it needs to go etc., but when I "optimize" my car by getting it tuned up it goes from 33mpg to 35mpg, not 200mpg. That's not exactly a tiny woman picking a car up off of her baby.
I've read that the women picking the car up might be straining her back like you'd expect, it just she "ignores" it because there are more pressing (lifting?) matters at hand. Does this mean right now I could walk outside and pick up a car, I simply choose to not employ the strength because I know I would injure myself? Is this the extent of fight/flight? Where do the chemicals like adrenaline fall into this? How do they make muscles stronger without physically changing my body?
Why does fight/flight make you super strong?
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Bill Glasheen
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The lifting the car thing is a bit of an exaggeration. We love the stories, and so repeat them whether or not there is validity to them.
Fight/flight is the vernacular for a powerful sympathetic nervous system response. It isn't really an on/off thing. Your body's sympathetic and parasympathetic system involve a serious of neurological and hormonal systems that work in dynamic tension with each other under most conditions. There are degrees of sympathetic and parasympathetic stimulation, as well as inhibition of one or the other system.
These systems generally work in conjunction with brain activity and external stimulation. Thus if the amygdale senses a lethal threat, it will engage primitive systems and begin the neurohormonal cascade of events that put the body in survive-at-all-cost mode.
Here are a few of the things that happen when the sympathetic nervous systems engage.
* The heart increases its strength of contraction
* The vasculature in the periphery contracts. This increases central pressure and decreases the rate of bleeding should there be trauma.
* Respiratory rate and tidal volume increase.
* The airways and nostrils dilate, thus reducing the resistance to flow of air in the nose and lungs.
* Clotting rate increases.
* The brain stem changes the body from a distributed control system to a centralized control system.
* I'll have to check up on this, but I believe certain biochemical processes happen in the muscles which increase the strength of contraction of skeletal muscle. This could involve substances such as calcium, phosphocreatine, etc.
* Fine motor and complex motor systems give way to gross motor system function.
Thus your system is optimized for simple, powerful movement as well as minimizing the risk of bleeding should there be trauma.
In addition, your hormonal system comes into play (endorphins, enkephalins) in a way that totally changes your perception of pain.
It isn't so much a matter of re-tuning your body as much as it's a matter of putting the pedal to the metal.
- Bill
Fight/flight is the vernacular for a powerful sympathetic nervous system response. It isn't really an on/off thing. Your body's sympathetic and parasympathetic system involve a serious of neurological and hormonal systems that work in dynamic tension with each other under most conditions. There are degrees of sympathetic and parasympathetic stimulation, as well as inhibition of one or the other system.
These systems generally work in conjunction with brain activity and external stimulation. Thus if the amygdale senses a lethal threat, it will engage primitive systems and begin the neurohormonal cascade of events that put the body in survive-at-all-cost mode.
Here are a few of the things that happen when the sympathetic nervous systems engage.
* The heart increases its strength of contraction
* The vasculature in the periphery contracts. This increases central pressure and decreases the rate of bleeding should there be trauma.
* Respiratory rate and tidal volume increase.
* The airways and nostrils dilate, thus reducing the resistance to flow of air in the nose and lungs.
* Clotting rate increases.
* The brain stem changes the body from a distributed control system to a centralized control system.
* I'll have to check up on this, but I believe certain biochemical processes happen in the muscles which increase the strength of contraction of skeletal muscle. This could involve substances such as calcium, phosphocreatine, etc.
* Fine motor and complex motor systems give way to gross motor system function.
Thus your system is optimized for simple, powerful movement as well as minimizing the risk of bleeding should there be trauma.
In addition, your hormonal system comes into play (endorphins, enkephalins) in a way that totally changes your perception of pain.
It isn't so much a matter of re-tuning your body as much as it's a matter of putting the pedal to the metal.
- Bill
I don't know, when I put the pedal to the metal it just sputters and coughs...I think I need a tune-up.Bill Glasheen wrote: It isn't so much a matter of re-tuning your body as much as it's a matter of putting the pedal to the metal.
- Bill
The heck with super strength, I'm waiting for the flying-through-the-air ability to kick in!
Glenn
It seems plausible enough. A small car is what, 2500, 3000 pounds? Lifting one end would be less. As a joke, a few of my sister's friends picked up her Saab and carried it around the corner from where she had parked.Glenn wrote:Have stories of people doing incredible feats under stress, like lifting a car off someone, been truly documented or are they just more urban myths?
This the article that got me wondering (not that it's got any sources or credibility, just got me thinking.)
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Bill Glasheen
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I spent a lot of my teens and early twenties in martial arts doing a lot of damage to myself by tapping too much into "extreme" energy. I've got the permanent residual damage to prove it. Over time I've learned to be more efficient about what I do, thus reducing my risk of injury. Weight training in particular taught me how to do this.
But the point is made - most of us are capable of strength beyond what our body can support. This is a good reason why we keep it in reserve. When death is the alternative, the primal brain will take risks.
- Bill
But the point is made - most of us are capable of strength beyond what our body can support. This is a good reason why we keep it in reserve. When death is the alternative, the primal brain will take risks.
- Bill
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Stryke
What about the theory that adreniline somehow overides the golgi tendon receptors Bill ?
do you buy into that ? , it`s does sound reasonable physiolgically
I know Ive had a couple occurances of super human strength , me and a freind kind of picked up a car , we dragged one sideways of the road .
no way that was normal for us at the time .
Adrenilan is a friend anyhow
makes you feel less pain as your beaten to death , how can that be wrong
do you buy into that ? , it`s does sound reasonable physiolgically
I know Ive had a couple occurances of super human strength
, me and a freind kind of picked up a car , we dragged one sideways of the road .no way that was normal for us at the time .
Adrenilan is a friend anyhow
makes you feel less pain as your beaten to death , how can that be wrong
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Bill Glasheen
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Marcus wrote:
What about the theory that adreniline somehow overides the golgi tendon receptors Bill ?
That's not a healthy thing per se, Marcus, but rather an artifact of an extreme region of our capabilites. And it's probably a good reason for us to be primed only for gross motor coordination activity under such conditions. Thus the golgi tendon receptor issue doesn't come in to play quite as much.
But the thing is, these abilities can be modified with training. That's why the big boys in the NFL do all those classic Olympic-style lifts with ungodly amounts of weight.
As for not feeling pain, well I don't buy the arguments that it helps the prey suffer less when being beaten up or eaten alive. Darwin's laws and the rules of sociobiology don't support any such nonsense. Rather the purpose is to keep the victim from being distracted by the pain so that said victim may concentrate on some last-ditch effort for survival.
It's all about passing down our genes (dropping our jeans??
) on another day... - Bill
Last edited by Bill Glasheen on Sun Jan 22, 2006 1:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Stryke
I agree Bill , but it`s the how not the why I`m curious about . Theres a pretty obvious reason the body only does this under perceived extremes .
I just am firing from experience , It`s a fascinating study .
I just am firing from experience , It`s a fascinating study .
Absolutley this Is why i`m prone to beleive it`s a neurological change rather than muscular , I do beleive where muscularly far more capapble of extreme loads , but the body limits itself for safety (thank goodness)But the thing is, these abilities can be modified with training. That's why the big boys in the NFL do all those classic Olympic-style lifts with ungodly amounts of weight.
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James T
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thumper_wabbit_dammit
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thumper_wabbit_dammit
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Of course we have a choice ... it's called training ... it's the tuning up you were speaking of.TSDguy wrote:True, but it's not like you have a choice one way or the other.thumper_wabbit_dammit wrote:I wonder how many times f/f response led to stupid decisions and death. Of course we can't hear those stories.
TSDguy, in my opinion, tunnel vision.
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Bill Glasheen
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You've got it right. We are foolish to think that we can turn off neurohormonal responses.
First of all it may be beneficial to MODIFY them, but you can't make the directional behavior go away.
Second of all, those responses are there for a good reason. We're talking millions and millions of years of evolution. Those creatures that did not have a fight/flight response got eaten, killed, or lost out in the mating rituals. That means their DNA became irrelevant.
And finally, it's a game of averages. The response(s) most likely to lead to survival are going to be the ones passed on. That doesn't mean they always do.
One thing people need to understand is that every point in our whole range of physiologic responses is an attempt at system optimization. That doesn't mean the system is at its optimum state, the person is at their optimum level of training, and that there aren't any compromises.
And trust me - when the Saber-Toothed Tiger has one of your legs in its jaws, you WILL make some compromises.
- Bill
First of all it may be beneficial to MODIFY them, but you can't make the directional behavior go away.
Second of all, those responses are there for a good reason. We're talking millions and millions of years of evolution. Those creatures that did not have a fight/flight response got eaten, killed, or lost out in the mating rituals. That means their DNA became irrelevant.
And finally, it's a game of averages. The response(s) most likely to lead to survival are going to be the ones passed on. That doesn't mean they always do.
One thing people need to understand is that every point in our whole range of physiologic responses is an attempt at system optimization. That doesn't mean the system is at its optimum state, the person is at their optimum level of training, and that there aren't any compromises.
And trust me - when the Saber-Toothed Tiger has one of your legs in its jaws, you WILL make some compromises.
- Bill
