Hi All!
I'm sure this has been talked about before, but searching on and reading past posts was leading me no where.
I'm looking for other applications of the "Seichin Blocks" (i.e. circle/scooping block).
Thinking about it I can see where it could be used in dan kumite #4 (side step and throw the kicker onto his back or face). Or it could be used to trap and catch a punch, where the other hand would then go on the triceps and you could use the fulcrum of the arm to drive the attacker to the ground. Lastly, they could be viewed as separate blocks; one the traditional circle block and the scoop for catching a front kick.
Other applications and views would be appreciated.
Thanks. dave
Seichin Blocks
Moderator: Available
I have seen a variety of blocks, attacks, and throws as interpretations that can come out of this series: The downward circling hand as intercepting a low kick or low punch, the scoop as intercepting a higher kick or punch (these interpretations for the scoop tend to be less convincing in my opinion), the knee as blocking a low kick or as an attack, and the whole series as a throw (your hands grab the opponent before you start the kata moves in this case).
One of the more innovative, in my opinion, was a scenario where the attacker is at your side (90 degrees to you) and doing a roundhouse kick to your front mid-section (stomach, groin, etc), and you do not have time to turn and face the attacker. Say the attacker is attacking from your left and doing a left roundhouse kick to your front mid-section, your left knee comes up to help your left Sanchin arm intercept the kick while the right scooping hand comes up to trap the kicking foot, and the left hand circles down to attack the attacker's groin. Not sure if my description is adequate, pictures would be better.
One of the more innovative, in my opinion, was a scenario where the attacker is at your side (90 degrees to you) and doing a roundhouse kick to your front mid-section (stomach, groin, etc), and you do not have time to turn and face the attacker. Say the attacker is attacking from your left and doing a left roundhouse kick to your front mid-section, your left knee comes up to help your left Sanchin arm intercept the kick while the right scooping hand comes up to trap the kicking foot, and the left hand circles down to attack the attacker's groin. Not sure if my description is adequate, pictures would be better.
Glenn
http://scs.student.virginia.edu/~uechi/style.html
Under kata descriptions every technique ought to have an associated bunkai. The last unique circley seichin thing is under seichin bunkai and the one that's done left and right is under sanseiryu bunkai. If you see anything missing maybe I could get the page updated--have been away from UVA for years tho.
Under kata descriptions every technique ought to have an associated bunkai. The last unique circley seichin thing is under seichin bunkai and the one that's done left and right is under sanseiryu bunkai. If you see anything missing maybe I could get the page updated--have been away from UVA for years tho.
--Ian
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Rick Wilson
Here is a takedown that evolves out of Seichin:
http://www.wilsonkarate.com/videos/bonus_takedown.wmv
http://www.wilsonkarate.com/videos/bonus_takedown.wmv
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Rick Wilson
IJ: You can enter it in a number of ways but the one I like is the entry to this takedown:
http://www.wilsonkarate.com/videos/seis ... wn_two.wmv
The takedown is different (off the Seisan Elbow) but you can see that the position allows for the first takedown shown.
And, yes, Glenn you are correct that the knee can easily be added for additional off balance or set up.
http://www.wilsonkarate.com/videos/seis ... wn_two.wmv
The takedown is different (off the Seisan Elbow) but you can see that the position allows for the first takedown shown.
And, yes, Glenn you are correct that the knee can easily be added for additional off balance or set up.
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Rick Wilson
IJ:
I think we are going to be saying the same thing but I would word it as:
In the clip your right forearm catches the aggressor's bicep of the hook punch with a strike as the left forearm intercepts the aggressor’s forearm of the hook punch – then you are in position for either takedown.
I most often do it with my right forearm striking into the side of the aggressor’s neck rather than the bicep.
I think we are going to be saying the same thing but I would word it as:
In the clip your right forearm catches the aggressor's bicep of the hook punch with a strike as the left forearm intercepts the aggressor’s forearm of the hook punch – then you are in position for either takedown.
I most often do it with my right forearm striking into the side of the aggressor’s neck rather than the bicep.
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Bill Glasheen
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- Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
- Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY
The nice video of a "hawk chases sparrow" application that Rick posted above is an example of a classic technique in aikido, alternatively called ude hineri or kaiten nage. Here's the same technique with a slighty different twist.
Kaiten Nage
Here's how to do the technique against a thrust by first sidestepping the line of force.
Tsuki Kaiten Nage
The following shows you how good an advanced aikido practitioner can get. Watch how many ways and directions he finds for applying the exact same technique.
Kaiten Nage from multiple angles
The principle of the arm part of hawk chases sparrow is spinning a mass about its center. If you break away from the idea of where you are holding onto the person and instead view a human body as a mass with things sticking off of it, then you can find many, many ways to do the technique. Glenn came sort of close to describing one variation of the above. If someone throws a roundhouse, don't think of the traditional "cross block" that you do in Kyu Kumite. Instead do what I call a "reverse cross block." You drop the arm in the direction of the kick, keep the other up in Sanchin, and then turn your body towards the kick. Once you "catch" the kick, take the upper arm and slide the forearm HARD into the person's neck. That'll take the starch out of them. Then with one arm below leg and the other on neck, do the body rotation.
The principle of the technique is that it takes less energy to rotate a mass about its center than it does to move that mass translationally.
Another twist on the technique is not to rotate the person head-over-heels. I saw Bobby Campbell do a different variation. Instead of the rotation Rick shows, decide instead to spin a person like a top with the axis of rotation from floor to heaven. When the face comes back around to greet you, you can greet it with a fist or palm-heel. They'll be disoriented, and never know what hit them.
Yet another variation - also found in aikido - is what to do when a person grabs you with both hands. Do a follow-through hit upside the person's head, which will take the starch out of them (bitch slap, or right cross). As you follow through, have that arm go over top of one arm and underneath the one on the opposite side. Take your second hand and reach underneath and over top of the opposite arm. Then apply the twist. You eventually will have the person in an elbow lock. If they are smart, they will throw themselves. If not...
There is also a lower lateral strike that can be done with a bo which uses this basic motion. I like to teach it to people so they get the feeling of the technique.
And yet another...
There are two principles to consider in Uechi kata.
1) Sometimes in kata the movement is done in the most complicated manner, because you lose complex motor coordination under stress. So this is why you generally will not see all 3 techniques applied AT THE SAME TIME in applications of hawk chases sparrow. If you do it with a handicap in kata, you can do the simpler move under stress.
2) Often applications of movements in kata can be found by varying the timing of one body part with respect to the next.
Let's consider these two principles, and find a way to make all the body parts work.
Kyu kumite number 4... You start out with a left sukuiage uke (scooping lifting block) of their right kick, correct? Then you dump it. Why? You both need the practice of more partner work. What you'd REALLY do is the following. Don't let that foot go. Instead follow the left arm catch with a right arm scoop (harai sukui uke, or downward scooping block). Then as you spin the person around to get at their back, move in and grab them with the left hand. Now what you want to do is a rear naked choke (lateral vascular neck restraint). But it's difficult to do if they are standing up straight, or they are taller than you. Well... Take that right foot - just like in the kata - and use it to push into the back of their right leg behind the knee. You will break their center, and they will fall back towards you. Then apply the rear naked choke.
Works like a charm, and uses all 3 parts of hawk chases sparrow.
- Bill
Kaiten Nage
Here's how to do the technique against a thrust by first sidestepping the line of force.
Tsuki Kaiten Nage
The following shows you how good an advanced aikido practitioner can get. Watch how many ways and directions he finds for applying the exact same technique.
Kaiten Nage from multiple angles
The principle of the arm part of hawk chases sparrow is spinning a mass about its center. If you break away from the idea of where you are holding onto the person and instead view a human body as a mass with things sticking off of it, then you can find many, many ways to do the technique. Glenn came sort of close to describing one variation of the above. If someone throws a roundhouse, don't think of the traditional "cross block" that you do in Kyu Kumite. Instead do what I call a "reverse cross block." You drop the arm in the direction of the kick, keep the other up in Sanchin, and then turn your body towards the kick. Once you "catch" the kick, take the upper arm and slide the forearm HARD into the person's neck. That'll take the starch out of them. Then with one arm below leg and the other on neck, do the body rotation.
The principle of the technique is that it takes less energy to rotate a mass about its center than it does to move that mass translationally.
Another twist on the technique is not to rotate the person head-over-heels. I saw Bobby Campbell do a different variation. Instead of the rotation Rick shows, decide instead to spin a person like a top with the axis of rotation from floor to heaven. When the face comes back around to greet you, you can greet it with a fist or palm-heel. They'll be disoriented, and never know what hit them.
Yet another variation - also found in aikido - is what to do when a person grabs you with both hands. Do a follow-through hit upside the person's head, which will take the starch out of them (bitch slap, or right cross). As you follow through, have that arm go over top of one arm and underneath the one on the opposite side. Take your second hand and reach underneath and over top of the opposite arm. Then apply the twist. You eventually will have the person in an elbow lock. If they are smart, they will throw themselves. If not...
There is also a lower lateral strike that can be done with a bo which uses this basic motion. I like to teach it to people so they get the feeling of the technique.
And yet another...
There are two principles to consider in Uechi kata.
1) Sometimes in kata the movement is done in the most complicated manner, because you lose complex motor coordination under stress. So this is why you generally will not see all 3 techniques applied AT THE SAME TIME in applications of hawk chases sparrow. If you do it with a handicap in kata, you can do the simpler move under stress.
2) Often applications of movements in kata can be found by varying the timing of one body part with respect to the next.
Let's consider these two principles, and find a way to make all the body parts work.
Kyu kumite number 4... You start out with a left sukuiage uke (scooping lifting block) of their right kick, correct? Then you dump it. Why? You both need the practice of more partner work. What you'd REALLY do is the following. Don't let that foot go. Instead follow the left arm catch with a right arm scoop (harai sukui uke, or downward scooping block). Then as you spin the person around to get at their back, move in and grab them with the left hand. Now what you want to do is a rear naked choke (lateral vascular neck restraint). But it's difficult to do if they are standing up straight, or they are taller than you. Well... Take that right foot - just like in the kata - and use it to push into the back of their right leg behind the knee. You will break their center, and they will fall back towards you. Then apply the rear naked choke.
Works like a charm, and uses all 3 parts of hawk chases sparrow.
- Bill
I think this has been mentioned before, but the History Channel has been running a series called "Human Weapon" where two guys with some martial arts backgrounds travel to a different country for each episode and receive some training in the martial arts of that country, leading up to one of them fighting a match with a "champion" from that country. It is essentially an American remake of the "Deadly Arts" series.
http://www.history.com/minisites/humanweapon
There are times when techniques are demonstrated that would seem to apply straight to a Uechi-kata technique. One that really stood out was during the Filipino escrima/kali episode. Members of a Filipino paramilitary force demonstrated an application for the wauke-horizontal elbow-backfist combo found in several Uechi kata. If the attacker attacked with a right hand, the defender checked the punch with a combination of a left-hand swat and right-hand small circle, the right-hand that circled then grabbed the forearm while the swatting left hand grabbed the triceps close to the elbow also going after a popular nerve point just behind the elbow. The defender then let go of the forearm with his right hand and executed a right horizontal elbow strike to the biceps of the attackers right arm immediately followed by a right backfist to to the attackers right temple. The only difference between their execution of the basic moves and Uechi execution of the basic moves is that the Filipinos held onto the attacker with the swatting hand and struck with the circling hand, while the Uechi kata have us hold onto the attacker with the circling hand and striking with the swatting hand. Hoepfully this discription makes some sense visually.
Of course during the karate episode they received some training and demonstrations from Kiyohide Shinjo, that had a few applications I could recognize.
http://www.history.com/minisites/humanweapon
There are times when techniques are demonstrated that would seem to apply straight to a Uechi-kata technique. One that really stood out was during the Filipino escrima/kali episode. Members of a Filipino paramilitary force demonstrated an application for the wauke-horizontal elbow-backfist combo found in several Uechi kata. If the attacker attacked with a right hand, the defender checked the punch with a combination of a left-hand swat and right-hand small circle, the right-hand that circled then grabbed the forearm while the swatting left hand grabbed the triceps close to the elbow also going after a popular nerve point just behind the elbow. The defender then let go of the forearm with his right hand and executed a right horizontal elbow strike to the biceps of the attackers right arm immediately followed by a right backfist to to the attackers right temple. The only difference between their execution of the basic moves and Uechi execution of the basic moves is that the Filipinos held onto the attacker with the swatting hand and struck with the circling hand, while the Uechi kata have us hold onto the attacker with the circling hand and striking with the swatting hand. Hoepfully this discription makes some sense visually.
Of course during the karate episode they received some training and demonstrations from Kiyohide Shinjo, that had a few applications I could recognize.
Glenn
