Stabbing spree??!

[benzocaine]

Well there you have it. In Japan, guns are nearly impossible to own. Rifle permits are not being issued any longer. When a current permit owner dies the heirs to it must turn it in to the government. So what's a deranged person to do? Why... get a knife and go psycho on a crowd of people.

I guess the next step will be to ban all sharp knives, with special permits available for chefs. FMA's should be banned to so people cant be so deadly with a knife.

Well.... the silence of the anti gun loby will will be duly noted. They will not acknowledge that in a city without guns, mass murder can still happen. When will they learn?


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080608/ap_ ... n_stabbing

7 dead in stabbing spree in downtown Tokyo By SHINO YUASA, Associated Press Writer
1 hour, 58 minutes ago



A man plowed into shoppers with a truck Sunday and then stabbed 17 people within minutes, killing at least seven of them in a grisly attack that shocked a country known for its low crime rate.

The lunchtime violence in the Akihabara district, a popular electronics and video game area, sent thousands of people fleeing.

The assault, which occurred on the seventh anniversary of a mass stabbing at a Japanese elementary school, was the latest in a series of knife attacks that have stoked fears of rising violent crime in Japan.

A 25-year-old man, Tomohiro Kato, was arrested with blood of his face.

"The suspect told police that he came to Akihabara to kill people," said Jiro Akaogi, a spokesman for the Tokyo Metropolitan Police Department.

"He said he was tired of life. He said he was sick of everything," Akaogi said.

The violence began when the man crashed a rented, two-ton truck into pedestrians. He then jumped out and began stabbing the people he had knocked down with the truck before turning on horrified onlookers, police said.

Police confirmed seven deaths — six men and one woman — but they could not say whether the victims had died of injuries from the truck or were stabbed to death.

Reports said the attacker grunted and roared as he slashed and stabbed at Sunday shoppers crowding a street lined with huge stores packed with the latest in computers, electronics, videos and games.

"He was screaming as he was stabbing people at random," a male witness told national broadcaster NHK.

Another witness told NHK that the suspect dropped his knife after police threatened to shoot him. Amateur video filmed by mobile phone showed policemen overpowering the bespectacled, bloodied suspect.

The attack paralyzed the district known as Electric Town and sent thousands of Sunday shoppers into a panic. Amateur video taken five minutes after the rampage showed shoppers helping victims and a man screaming, "Ambulance, Ambulance!"

At least 17 ambulances rushed to the scene, and rescue workers feverishly tended to victims in the blood-pooled street.

As night fell on Akihabara, several pedestrians stopped by and prayed at the crime scene. A bouquet of flowers, bottles of green tea and incense sticks were placed at the site.

Japan boasts a low crime rate compared to other industrialized nations and Tokyo, with a population of 12.7 million, is considered relatively safe. But stabbings, once rare in the country, have become more frequent in recent years.

In March, one person was stabbed to death and at least seven others were hurt by a man who went on a slashing spree with two knives outside a shopping mall in eastern Japan. In January, a 16-year-old boy attacked five people in a shopping area, injuring two of them.

A spate of knife attacks also have occurred in schools, the worst on June 8, 2001 when a man with a history of mental illness burst into elementary school near Osaka killing eight children. He was executed in 2004.

[Seth Rosenblatt]

the blog response has been interesting and more nuanced than the news reports, which have generally been either the "those wacky japanese, they even do multiple homicides differently" or the "crime is rising in japan" type.

http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/JapanProbe/~3/307788872/

this post from japan probe has links to some of the better blog posts. several stick out, including these:

Adamu of Mutantfrog Travelogue commented on the police response (a comment I wholeheartedly agree with, if reports about the police officer’s actions are accurate):

Apparently a policeman chased this man with his baton — and actually parried with him as he ran and apparently was still stabbing people — and only drew his gun AFTER Kato had put down the knife. Three words for the Japanese cops — SHOOT TO KILL!

Marxy predicts an “Otaku Moral Panic”:

They already found some anime-style drawings from the suspect — something extremely ubiquitous among almost everyone in Japan — but the images will point the blame squarely at “pop culture.” (Will his middle-school tennis club picture lead to a crackdown on clay courts nationwide?) That being said, I don’t think this guy chose Akihabara just because it’s a “popular area,” as if Shinjuku or Ikebukuro would have sufficed. There will be some kind of link.

Debito used the occasion to bring attention to a store in Akihabara that has a sign stating it will not sell knives to minors and foreigners. It wasn’t long before Debito had called the store and convinced them to change the sign:

I mentioned that there are many different types of NJ in Japan, and not all of their customers are simply leaving afterwards. He said that they don’t mind selling to NJ with addresses in Japan as long as they present ID. I said that that’s not what the sign out front says, and suggested he change the sign to reflect what he just told me.

[Glenn]

At least he only had a knife, the body count likely would have been higher had he had a firearm of some sort. Knives aren't exactly the weapon of choice for rampages.

[Bill Glasheen]

At least he only had a knife, the body count likely would have been higher had he had a firearm of some sort. Knives aren't exactly the weapon of choice for rampages.

Yes and no.

In a crowded area, I could probably kill just as many (if not more) with a knife that I could a gun. A gun goes boom, and makes people run. A blade can do its work silently with people nearby in a crowded area not knowing what the commotion was.

It doesn't take me long to teach people how to kill easily with a blade. It doesn't happen instantly as in the movies, but dead is dead. Just check out how quietly, thoroughly, and brutally OJ was able to dispatch with his ex and her friend.

Furthermore, you missed a major factor in this whole story.

The violence began when the man crashed a rented, two-ton truck into pedestrians.

Oops!

Someone can kill a lot of people in a crowded mall with a U-Haul truck. And all you need are a driver's license and a credit card.

In any case... This is no different than our own friend Mr. Cho. History will show that the guy has serious mental issues that weren't addressed or couldn't be addressed before he completely went over the edge.

Note the danger of "copycat" killings.

If somebody wants to get you, they can find a way.

- Bill

[Glenn]

Here is the Japan Times article on this incident:
http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/ ... 609a1.html

[Glenn]

Surprisingly, the death toll from the vehicle was very low:

Of the seven, at least six had been stabbed and two had been hit by the truck

Good points about the crowd and noise factor in this case. I have to wonder about the awareness factor as well. How many of the victims were busy talking on cell phones and completely oblivious to any commotion or the danger approaching them?

And don't forget, OJ is still looking for the real killer

[Glenn]

Apparently a policeman chased this man with his baton — and actually parried with him as he ran and apparently was still stabbing people — and only drew his gun AFTER Kato had put down the knife.

The Japan Times article contridicts the above version of events (emphasis added):

According to eyewitnesses, a police officer at a nearby police box who noticed the incident hurried to the scene and found Kato wielding the knife.

The officer initially failed to get hold of the suspect after hitting him with a baton a few times. But Kato put the knife down after the officer drew a handgun and issued a warning, leading to his arrest, the eyewitnesses said.

[IJ]

In response to the thesis of the thread, the logic is lacking. Just because someone CAN kill multiple people with a knife does not mean that guns add no danger. I could go on a killing spree with my hands--think how easily I could kill solo night joggers with a stunning blow followed by a rear naked choke. But people don't do this. A lot of the anti-control argument in the US deals with the fact the country is already saturated with guns and the criminals who don't have one can get one. In Japan, this apparently isn't the case. Or the epidemic of gun toting criminals preying on helpless civilians is vastly underreported. There are cross cultural elements to consider as well.

Note that I am not saying that gun control laws prevent shooting sprees. Unless we're talking about the measures everyone wants to apply retrospectively to the Cho case.

Bill is right that a knife can work quickly in a crowd, but on the other hand, you just need to be an inch out of reach from a knife. Not true with a gun. There are some situations in which crowds prevent escape either way. I wouldn't want to have to neutralize either foe but I would probably prefer to deal with a knife. I've done some knife work with Raffi and know that if I get my hands on a stick of some kind or other tool, I have a reasonable chance of parrying or disarming the probably uneducated knife wielding foe. Guns one only has a chance with if right on them.

[Bill Glasheen]

You make some very good points, Ian.

There are some interesting things to consider here.

• "A knife" doesn't really fit neatly below "a gun" on the force continuum. They are both very deadly instruments.
• Not all knives are created equal, and not all guns are created equal. Some knives classified as "tools" can easily be brought where no gun is tolerated. What about the kitchen tools? What about knives < 3 inches in length? This would be of special interest in a gun-free society. (UK, Japan, Canada to some extent.)
• Many guns are essentially rendered ineffective with just a little bit of distance. Many guns may also be ineffective when "in close and personal" hence the use of the Tueller drill in firearms training.
• With just a little bit of smarts, you can have a tremendous "force multiplier" effect with a blade. Take for example the 9/11 scenarios. A small cadre of guys with box cutters managed to get past airport security, kill over 3000 people, and paralyze international transportation and financial systems for a week. With the idea "out there", I know I could have done the same thing with a minimal knowledge of use of a knife, a basic understanding of anatomy, and an understanding of situational human behavior.

The above story is an example (like Mr. Cho at Virginia Tech) where a very sick person wanted to do a lot of harm. And unfortunately one "success" can begat a rash of more such incidents. I personally don't see where it matters what tool was used.

The pro-government control freaks can play whack-a-mole all they want in the various legislatures. Unfortunately they will not solve many problems until they deal with some underlying issues. Indeed, Ian, there are some "cultural elements" at play here. For example... knowing the high suicide rate that exists in Japan, I'd say that there's mass cultural denial going on in the mental health arena.

- Bill

[IJ]

To that end:

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/us_worl ... japan.html

--says that 81 people committed suicide from work stress and 286 had mental illnesses from work stress.

http://www.slate.com/id/2167295

--says that over 32,500 people committed suicide in 2005 making that figure on work stress laughable. Gosh, how did we reliably determine the other 32,480+ people didn't have work stress? Also goes into a variety of explanations. I like "the explainer" columns

http://www.atimes.com/japan-econ/AH04Dh01.html

--goes into some cultural issues including suicide pacts and a hot spot for suicide and the popularity of a suicide manual.

http://www.who.int/mental_health/preven ... erates/en/

--suicide rates by country. Worth noting a lead in eastern europe, russia (twice Japans which is twice ours) and Lithuania gets the gold at 75. Some countries are suicide free! Yay! Maybe they were using the reporting methods referred to in "The Lives of Others."

[JimHawkins]

I think the suicide rates by culture are a reflection of the particular societal/religious views on suicide as much as any other 'causitive' stress factor.

[Bill Glasheen]

There are many issues at play here.

Reporting is an issue here. For example the incidence of bipolar disorder in children jumped by a factor of 40 in two decades here in the U.S. Is there a sudden epidemic? I don't think so.

The prevalence of psych issues varies by an order of magnitude in our own culture from suburban to rural. Are people more sick in the suburbs? Or... maybe it has something to do with the fact that more mental health workers want to live in the suburbs. (Check Wennberg et al for more on this provider-induced demand phenomenon.)

If a tree falls in a forest and nobody is there, did it make a sound?

Yes, suicide is more socially acceptable in Japan. In the past, it was tied with their own concept of honor. Some traditions die hard. (Bad pun, I know...)

Tied in with this are their very different ideas about personal responsibility, stoicism, family reputations, etc.

Do brains in Japan suffer less in the way of schizophrenia, borderline personality disorders, psychoses, severe depression, and other significant mental health issues? If there was consensus on diagnostic protocol, then I would say not.

It doesn't surprise me that places in Eastern Europe have high suicide rates. Mix joblessness and alcoholism, and you get what you get. Throw in some cold weather and seasonal affective disorder. That's quite a nasty mix.

Good thing the Russians have lots of oil. Their economy should be booming in the near future.

- Bill

[IJ]

There are a lot of cross cultural syndromes (schizophrenia pops up, defined in different ways) and some that don't so much. Anorexia is not a big problem in Saudi Arabia, for example. I trust readers will figure out why. compulsive exercise... probably not a major disorder of developing nations. Personality disorders I'd be very interested in hearing about. They're supposed to be really annoying interpersonal habits... coping mechanisms and styles that people learn work, then become ingrained and nonproductive (for example, manipulating people with threats or moaning about abandonment after doing awful stuff to get attention as a kid, then still doing that as a borderline adult). I wonder how much completely different social structure and mores would affect such disorders. Might clue us in to how they occur.

[jorvik]

Quote
"Anorexia is not a big problem in Saudi Arabia, for example. I trust readers will figure out why"

Sorry I can't figure that one out but this is an interesting topic .....how ailments or psychological problems are part of socierty and how they are dealt with or viewed by that society, and so many things can come into play.
I think in martial arts there is a lot of this because we are dealing with different cultures and they have a totally different attitude to everyday things.
If you view interaction with foreign societies in the manner that it was portrayed in the film The last Samurai.were plucky tom cruise assimilates all the main points of a foreign culture in a nano second and immediately becomes a better samurai than all the sons of Dai Nippon..thern you are on a loser.....sometimes though good manners are universal and folks will respond to the respect attitude rather than what was said.........as to the topic of knives there are many issues, a couple of years ago in my city there was a madman running around with a knife who stabbed one student to death.thing is there was no loud gunshots or smoke or people running in fear...............knives are silent and can easily be missed. you could be on your 5th homicide before folks know something is wrong

[benzocaine]

In response to the thesis of the thread, the logic is lacking. Just because someone CAN kill multiple people with a knife does not mean that guns add no danger.

Well of course, but on the other hand banning guns goesn't prevent a stabbing spree, or a baseball bat spree..ect.

A lot of the anti-control argument in the US deals with the fact the country is already saturated with guns and the criminals who don't have one can get one. In Japan, this apparently isn't the case. Or the epidemic of gun toting criminals preying on helpless civilians is vastly underreported.

If you were to go soley based on the information in the article this would be completely true, but read this http://www.davekopel.org/2A/LawRev/Japa ... ontrol.htm You'll see that unlike America police can search you any time - anywhere.. then they make it nearly impossible to have one in the first place.

But my thesis is that banning guns doesn't stop mass murder.