Something I was thinking of while I was away from the forums - is that a sort of "Q&A" or list of forum guidelines should be accessible. We have a page of legalese that new registering users are required to "agree" to - kind of a daunting document - but for a reason. These pages, unlike the free-for-all on Use net or some other forums, are a safe place to post opinions, disagreements, theories and discussions without fear of insult, injury or reprisal, largely due to the efforts of the administrators and moderators to enforce their individual forum policies. Once in a while we get some flamer, or spam, or a discussion gets out of hand, and we go through a few days of working through and ironing out and writing posts on "decorum" and other editorial comments stating what is acceptable and what is not. As this material bears repeating at times, I've even saved a couple posts to that effect and have copied them in to the thread that needed it - but this thread is one I'm going to start as a Q&A type thread; what the focus of this forum is, who is welcome, (everyone) and some basic guidelines for posting. I believe this will be a good thread for newcomers and lurkers to check out - and as it develops I hope it to become a sort of PR device that may encourage more of the readers to become writers here as well. (Your views matter to us!)
For starters I'm posting a link to the Submission Fighting Forum's Rules and Guidelines. For this forum, many of the guidelines will be very similar - with a few modifications - but it will give you a general idea of what I'm working toward with this thread.
Contributions and suggestions are of course, as always, welcomed and appreciated.
Click here to see the Forum Guidelines for the Submission Fighting Forum: http://www.submissionfighting.com/editpages/tips.htm Remember this is just the foundation for this forum's own guidelines. We will tailor our own from past experience.
Thanks,
Lori
Forum Q&A
Moderator: Available
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gmattson
- Site Admin
- Posts: 6073
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Forum Q&A
Good idea Lori. I know awhile back you suggested we modify the "legalise" and the project will have a high priority once camp is over. Meanwhile, perhaps you can head up an effort to supply a meaningful and legal agreement.
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GEM
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GEM
Forum Q&A
Hi Sensei - happy to help. These pages, like a child or successful business need vigilance and rules to govern the growth... the tremendous growth of these pages is due in no small part to the contributions of everyone here.
On the legalese of the registration agreement - to be clearer than I was above - I believe that page to be a very necessary part of these forums, yet it gets defeated by those forums not requiring registration - in addition it is a bit daunting to lurkers who may start the process so they can post on something that sparks their interest and may further discourage someone already hesitant about jumping into a discussion with some of us forum "veterans" - but the need for the agreement is serious - perhaps we could just include on registration a link to the agreement and/or something somewhere on the UBB stating that all users, registered or not are subject to those limitations. Necessary not only to protect this website, but also the people posting here.
What I'm doing on this thread is certainly applicable to all forums, yet in each individual way - as each moderator has his/her own set of guidelines and rules. It just seemed that over the past two years we've repeated so many of those guidelines I felt a thread that can be renewed, added to and edited and can be brought to the top every so often might help with that task.
Certainly, after camp I'd be willing to lend my NSHO's to any re-vamping or institution of forum guidelines.
On the legalese of the registration agreement - to be clearer than I was above - I believe that page to be a very necessary part of these forums, yet it gets defeated by those forums not requiring registration - in addition it is a bit daunting to lurkers who may start the process so they can post on something that sparks their interest and may further discourage someone already hesitant about jumping into a discussion with some of us forum "veterans" - but the need for the agreement is serious - perhaps we could just include on registration a link to the agreement and/or something somewhere on the UBB stating that all users, registered or not are subject to those limitations. Necessary not only to protect this website, but also the people posting here.
What I'm doing on this thread is certainly applicable to all forums, yet in each individual way - as each moderator has his/her own set of guidelines and rules. It just seemed that over the past two years we've repeated so many of those guidelines I felt a thread that can be renewed, added to and edited and can be brought to the top every so often might help with that task.
Certainly, after camp I'd be willing to lend my NSHO's to any re-vamping or institution of forum guidelines.
Forum Q&A
<u>On misinterpreting posts and "arguments" on the forum</u>
(Used with permission)
Van Canna
Moderator posted June 17, 2000 10:00 AM
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I don’t really see any malice here from anyone, just passion of beliefs manifest in the poignancy of argument.
But because of our passions, we all, sooner or later, run into a wall of misunderstandings.
If we could develop the concept of “argument” as the gift of ourselves, a sharing of ideals, of thoughts, and feelings with the group, taking care to avoid misconceptions in the exchange, we would be a true “brotherhood” on these forums.
The difficulty lies in keeping others open to receive the gift of us, in wanting to share.
But as we read responses to our posts, we subconsciously “latch on” to a word or two, perceived “barbs” that seem to reach into our preservation instincts triggering a defensive emotional stance.
Try as we will, this cannot be glossed over as the budding arguments have always a way to awaken all the natural emotional forces of self-preservation and retaliation, much like our primal instincts in response to life-threatening assaults.
Thus the difficulty to reign in our emotional backlash.
The problem compounds itself when the other closes off to us in preparation to “defend” against us anticipating the counter argument.
A successful argument is one that reaches the other in a mutual exchange of emotional gifts, but when we sense the other closing off to us, we should realize our argument has already failed before it began.
If any of our arguments on these pages are perceived as some conscious or unconscious threat, our emotional doors will remain locked and the message will never be heard.
And in spite of our best efforts to the contrary, this is the way it will be for all of us, myself included, and we can all join together with the coyotes in howling at the moon.
And, please, this is not to single anyone out, or to criticize anyone’s posts; just some observations in an attempt to make us more receptive to each other before having to launch
The “dogs of words”!
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Van Canna
(Used with permission)
Van Canna
Moderator posted June 17, 2000 10:00 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I don’t really see any malice here from anyone, just passion of beliefs manifest in the poignancy of argument.
But because of our passions, we all, sooner or later, run into a wall of misunderstandings.
If we could develop the concept of “argument” as the gift of ourselves, a sharing of ideals, of thoughts, and feelings with the group, taking care to avoid misconceptions in the exchange, we would be a true “brotherhood” on these forums.
The difficulty lies in keeping others open to receive the gift of us, in wanting to share.
But as we read responses to our posts, we subconsciously “latch on” to a word or two, perceived “barbs” that seem to reach into our preservation instincts triggering a defensive emotional stance.
Try as we will, this cannot be glossed over as the budding arguments have always a way to awaken all the natural emotional forces of self-preservation and retaliation, much like our primal instincts in response to life-threatening assaults.
Thus the difficulty to reign in our emotional backlash.
The problem compounds itself when the other closes off to us in preparation to “defend” against us anticipating the counter argument.
A successful argument is one that reaches the other in a mutual exchange of emotional gifts, but when we sense the other closing off to us, we should realize our argument has already failed before it began.
If any of our arguments on these pages are perceived as some conscious or unconscious threat, our emotional doors will remain locked and the message will never be heard.
And in spite of our best efforts to the contrary, this is the way it will be for all of us, myself included, and we can all join together with the coyotes in howling at the moon.
And, please, this is not to single anyone out, or to criticize anyone’s posts; just some observations in an attempt to make us more receptive to each other before having to launch
The “dogs of words”!
------------------
Van Canna
Forum Q&A
<u>On Insults</u>
The term "insult" is a pretty broad word. Rather than post the dictionary definition - I ask you to determine your own - because ultimately, YOUR perception will determine if a comment is insulting or not.
On this forum, insults will be handled in this manner:
From the moderator's perspective
Posts that appear in "my" perception to be insulting to another person posting on this forum, will be treated in one of two ways:
1) If the post is directly and bluntly an insult, it will be edited or deleted without comment.
2) If the post is dancing on the edges of a direct insult, but still may be perceived as an insult, it will receive a strong warning, with a short opportunity to edit or delete.
From the contributor/poster's perspective:
If any reader perceives a comment to be insulting, they are invited first and foremost to post this impression publically. i.e. "Hey Joe, what do you mean by "blah blah blah"? I find it insulting/demeaning/disturbing/unclear (etc.) As this is a DISCUSSION FORUM hopefully more discussion will ensue, and as is the case with mature members of these forums, these numerous and repetitive opportunities for misunderstanding can be cleared up rather quickly and in the doing so will offer in a public venue an even more interesting discussion for deeper and emotional opinions, clarifications, and expansions on subjects that otherwise would remain undisclosed. Miscommunications, like problems, can be opportunities for more learning.
If any contributor feels that they have been insulted, and for whatever reason does not care to attempt a public clarification or resolution, please email me and I will make a determination based on my own perception, from the outside, of the post. I will be happy to step in on sensitive issues, however I recommend trying to resolve things on the forum with the person who made the post in question first.
Important
No apologies will be offered or expected for a reader misunderstanding something PERCEIVED as an insult. Apologies or clarifications are strongly encouraged for miscommunications by someone posting something that was not INTENDED to be insulting, but has been PERCEIVED as such.
I am far from perfect. I make many mistakes. However, I am the moderator of this forum. As such I reserve the right and final opinion as to what is insulting or not and will delete, edit, or warn as I see fit. MY intent in this regard is none other than to assist in maintaining a forum where everyone, regardless of their belief system, style, gender, NRA/ERA or other status, may offer their opinions, questions, concerns, and experience for the benefit of all. In this regard insults are not welcome in any fashion, and will be dealt with swiftly. This method is not intended to be personal, even if it is taken as such. It is meant to maintain a civil environment on this forum. If you wish an environment where there is insult hurling, judgment and copious foul language, please get thee to a usenet group and sayonara.
Many people read these forums avidly - yet refrain from posting for fear (a valid one!) of being flamed, insulted, or misunderstood. The guidelines on this forum are in place to protect against that, in the hopes of encouraging more readers to become writers. In this regard, flamers and insults will never be tolerated. This, like the Realities forum (from which I have modeled many of my guidelines) is a safe place to express your opinion within guidelines meant to preserve an environment of discussion and not an arena for judgment or insult.
[This message has been edited by Lori (edited October 01, 2000).]
The term "insult" is a pretty broad word. Rather than post the dictionary definition - I ask you to determine your own - because ultimately, YOUR perception will determine if a comment is insulting or not.
On this forum, insults will be handled in this manner:
From the moderator's perspective
Posts that appear in "my" perception to be insulting to another person posting on this forum, will be treated in one of two ways:
1) If the post is directly and bluntly an insult, it will be edited or deleted without comment.
2) If the post is dancing on the edges of a direct insult, but still may be perceived as an insult, it will receive a strong warning, with a short opportunity to edit or delete.
From the contributor/poster's perspective:
If any reader perceives a comment to be insulting, they are invited first and foremost to post this impression publically. i.e. "Hey Joe, what do you mean by "blah blah blah"? I find it insulting/demeaning/disturbing/unclear (etc.) As this is a DISCUSSION FORUM hopefully more discussion will ensue, and as is the case with mature members of these forums, these numerous and repetitive opportunities for misunderstanding can be cleared up rather quickly and in the doing so will offer in a public venue an even more interesting discussion for deeper and emotional opinions, clarifications, and expansions on subjects that otherwise would remain undisclosed. Miscommunications, like problems, can be opportunities for more learning.
If any contributor feels that they have been insulted, and for whatever reason does not care to attempt a public clarification or resolution, please email me and I will make a determination based on my own perception, from the outside, of the post. I will be happy to step in on sensitive issues, however I recommend trying to resolve things on the forum with the person who made the post in question first.
Important
No apologies will be offered or expected for a reader misunderstanding something PERCEIVED as an insult. Apologies or clarifications are strongly encouraged for miscommunications by someone posting something that was not INTENDED to be insulting, but has been PERCEIVED as such.
I am far from perfect. I make many mistakes. However, I am the moderator of this forum. As such I reserve the right and final opinion as to what is insulting or not and will delete, edit, or warn as I see fit. MY intent in this regard is none other than to assist in maintaining a forum where everyone, regardless of their belief system, style, gender, NRA/ERA or other status, may offer their opinions, questions, concerns, and experience for the benefit of all. In this regard insults are not welcome in any fashion, and will be dealt with swiftly. This method is not intended to be personal, even if it is taken as such. It is meant to maintain a civil environment on this forum. If you wish an environment where there is insult hurling, judgment and copious foul language, please get thee to a usenet group and sayonara.
Many people read these forums avidly - yet refrain from posting for fear (a valid one!) of being flamed, insulted, or misunderstood. The guidelines on this forum are in place to protect against that, in the hopes of encouraging more readers to become writers. In this regard, flamers and insults will never be tolerated. This, like the Realities forum (from which I have modeled many of my guidelines) is a safe place to express your opinion within guidelines meant to preserve an environment of discussion and not an arena for judgment or insult.
[This message has been edited by Lori (edited October 01, 2000).]
Forum Q&A
<u>On offensive posts</u>
Much of what applies in the above post On Insults will also apply here. I recognize that many more people read than actually post on this forum - and it often will lie dormant when my schedule does not permit a seeding of topics. From time to time, given the nature of this particular forum and the always to be expected gender related humor - posts will be placed here that dance on the line of propriety. The original post on a recent contained references that mostly "old-timers" could only appreciate - knowing the history of the originator and his witty, sarcastic, and occasionally pompous personality. Additional reference is made to some of the more stringent editorial policies which Sensei Mattson leaves completey up to each moderator. There are a couple forums that are stricter than others in this regard and occasional protest is made when a post disappears. This forum welcomes any and all contributions - and encourages female participation - unfortunately we don't get too much of it. If at any time a post is considered to be offensive or insulting at any time to any poster - they have only to post their opinion or email me privately and the post in question will either be clarified or deleted at my discretion. A recent thread was deleted because it was determined to be offensive. No questions asked. The post was intended in humorous context - and not everyone shares the same sense of humor. As it was not specifically martial arts related - and only referred obliquely to editorial policy and protestations to same - I left it up as an "inside joke" - my error and apologies to anyone who took offense.
I have found as a minority in this male dominated martial art - that a sense of humor is necessary in order to survive. If I took offense at every off color remark or reference during the course of my training I would no longer be training. I am fortunate to have encountered many serious martial artists who treat me first as a karateka and only second as a woman - and this is as it should be. However, perspectives, interpretations, and intent will differ widely based on our personal filters of emotion, experience, and personal sense of propriety or morality. My sense of humor is not yours and vice versa. In this medium of the two dimensional cyber page - inflection of voice, double entendre, and other verbal or body language indicating the seriousness (or lack thereof) of a topic is left out - and misinterpretation is not only possible - it is highly likely. As such - editorial policy on this page remains: Jokes and humor is encouraged, if however the humor takes on a tone that is offensive to ANYONE - the post will be removed without comment. It is not the intent of this page to perpetuate anything that would demean the stature of women as martial artists first and foremost. However, we must recognize that the differences will apply not only in gender, but also in interpretation. As for clarification when necessary - don't get personal - stick to issues and not individuals - and above all - learn and enjoy.
Feel free to add comments or questions to this particular thread.
[This message has been edited by Lori (edited March 26, 2001).]
Much of what applies in the above post On Insults will also apply here. I recognize that many more people read than actually post on this forum - and it often will lie dormant when my schedule does not permit a seeding of topics. From time to time, given the nature of this particular forum and the always to be expected gender related humor - posts will be placed here that dance on the line of propriety. The original post on a recent contained references that mostly "old-timers" could only appreciate - knowing the history of the originator and his witty, sarcastic, and occasionally pompous personality. Additional reference is made to some of the more stringent editorial policies which Sensei Mattson leaves completey up to each moderator. There are a couple forums that are stricter than others in this regard and occasional protest is made when a post disappears. This forum welcomes any and all contributions - and encourages female participation - unfortunately we don't get too much of it. If at any time a post is considered to be offensive or insulting at any time to any poster - they have only to post their opinion or email me privately and the post in question will either be clarified or deleted at my discretion. A recent thread was deleted because it was determined to be offensive. No questions asked. The post was intended in humorous context - and not everyone shares the same sense of humor. As it was not specifically martial arts related - and only referred obliquely to editorial policy and protestations to same - I left it up as an "inside joke" - my error and apologies to anyone who took offense.
I have found as a minority in this male dominated martial art - that a sense of humor is necessary in order to survive. If I took offense at every off color remark or reference during the course of my training I would no longer be training. I am fortunate to have encountered many serious martial artists who treat me first as a karateka and only second as a woman - and this is as it should be. However, perspectives, interpretations, and intent will differ widely based on our personal filters of emotion, experience, and personal sense of propriety or morality. My sense of humor is not yours and vice versa. In this medium of the two dimensional cyber page - inflection of voice, double entendre, and other verbal or body language indicating the seriousness (or lack thereof) of a topic is left out - and misinterpretation is not only possible - it is highly likely. As such - editorial policy on this page remains: Jokes and humor is encouraged, if however the humor takes on a tone that is offensive to ANYONE - the post will be removed without comment. It is not the intent of this page to perpetuate anything that would demean the stature of women as martial artists first and foremost. However, we must recognize that the differences will apply not only in gender, but also in interpretation. As for clarification when necessary - don't get personal - stick to issues and not individuals - and above all - learn and enjoy.
Feel free to add comments or questions to this particular thread.
[This message has been edited by Lori (edited March 26, 2001).]
Forum Q&A
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote
One female writer offered that on the whole, Italians, French, and Spanish are less obsessed with gender inferiority complexes, and are less inhibited or uptight, and have less hang-ups about sex, nudity, and human functions than Anglo-Saxons, for instance.
For example, unless I got it all wrong, which is always a possibility, it seems that BB took offense, real or imagined, to photos and innuendo, and gender disparagement, so innocuous by European standards, that on the Italian forum it would hardly have elicited a response, as in Europe even topless advertising is not considered sexist by either women or men.
Toplessness isn't even really considered nudity. In some boutiques, you may see women try on blouses without stepping into a changing room or change from their swimsuit into street clothes on the beach. European women are very comfortable in being a “woman”!
If anything, women instead of battling against a male-dominated industry that has traditionally objectified women have responded with their own programming that has “naturalized” male/female relations, while in this country we are still deeply mired in the morality/gender equality muck.
European men and women, in general, are students of life, and voracious readers, who dig deeply into issues of human response and understand them thoroughly. Something that is sorely lacking in this part of the world.
But this is not to criticize BB’s post; her views must certainly be respected on an equal basis. Too bad she has missed out on the tremendous topics of the recent past. Hope she does check out your archives.
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Van Canna
Being of European extraction and upbringing, I chuckle at some of the posts on the Italian Martial arts site that snipe mercilessly at the typical Anglo-Saxon.A recent thread was deleted because it was determined to be offensive. The post was intended in humorous context - and not everyone shares the same sense of humor.
One female writer offered that on the whole, Italians, French, and Spanish are less obsessed with gender inferiority complexes, and are less inhibited or uptight, and have less hang-ups about sex, nudity, and human functions than Anglo-Saxons, for instance.
For example, unless I got it all wrong, which is always a possibility, it seems that BB took offense, real or imagined, to photos and innuendo, and gender disparagement, so innocuous by European standards, that on the Italian forum it would hardly have elicited a response, as in Europe even topless advertising is not considered sexist by either women or men.
Toplessness isn't even really considered nudity. In some boutiques, you may see women try on blouses without stepping into a changing room or change from their swimsuit into street clothes on the beach. European women are very comfortable in being a “woman”!
If anything, women instead of battling against a male-dominated industry that has traditionally objectified women have responded with their own programming that has “naturalized” male/female relations, while in this country we are still deeply mired in the morality/gender equality muck.
European men and women, in general, are students of life, and voracious readers, who dig deeply into issues of human response and understand them thoroughly. Something that is sorely lacking in this part of the world.
But this is not to criticize BB’s post; her views must certainly be respected on an equal basis. Too bad she has missed out on the tremendous topics of the recent past. Hope she does check out your archives.
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Van Canna
Forum Q&A
I moderate a forum, two actually, on Christianity over on www.wizardnet.com where we discuss a rather broad series of topics. We have a very broad range of folks from practicing Wiccans to Fundamentalist Evangelicals and everything in between. I run it on the basic Golden Rule: "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." It generally has worked, so far. We have one guy who comes in and behaves for a while and then starts to attack Christianity in the most inane ways. When I or one of the others points out how silly his attacks are from a logical basis, he gets his feelings hurt and departs for a few months. We did have one guy who was truly viscious and we asked him to leave, which he did. We have not had to ban anyone. I did have to suggest that two guys, the Fundamentalist Evangelical and a Native American who actively questions Christianity, to back off or I would lock the thread where they were getting really hot with each other. They apologized and cooled it. So it has generally taken a friendly warning to back off, and this is a forum on very hot topics. We have been debating abortion, a really hot one, from which I had to withdraw as a participant as I felt too strongly, given my NOW activist background. I stayed on only as Moderator. I have told them that the question of homosexuality is off-limits for now and for ever, as I can not see that one ever being a controllable topic in any forum.
IOn any case, I thought that my limited experience moderating a very "hot button" forum might be of interest. I hope that it has. If you wish to look in, go to http://wizardnet.com/cgi-bin/forumdisplay.cgi?action=topics&forum=Early+Christianity+and+early+Christian+sects&number=1&DaysPrune=60&LastLogin=
and take a look. It is UBB format and will be familiar to you. If you wish to look at the whole forum, try http://wizardnet.com/cgi-bin/Ultimate.cgi
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Walk in the Light, Hugh
hughf_us@yahoo.com
IOn any case, I thought that my limited experience moderating a very "hot button" forum might be of interest. I hope that it has. If you wish to look in, go to http://wizardnet.com/cgi-bin/forumdisplay.cgi?action=topics&forum=Early+Christianity+and+early+Christian+sects&number=1&DaysPrune=60&LastLogin=
and take a look. It is UBB format and will be familiar to you. If you wish to look at the whole forum, try http://wizardnet.com/cgi-bin/Ultimate.cgi
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Walk in the Light, Hugh
hughf_us@yahoo.com
Forum Q&A
At the risk of digging myself deeper into this hole, I offer one more thought on the topic.
I work in a college with a culturally diverse student population. I am aware of gender bias, age bias, cultural bias and racial bias not only among students but in the faculty and staff as well. We all have to survive within the cultural norms of our society and this includes recognizing those ideas that cultivate the positive and the negative of our society. I believe most cultures can be very open regarding sex, nudity and bodily funtions. The "hang up" is ideas the demean or demoralize individual self esteem and those who try to disguise this behavior by the way they label it (i.e. humor) or excuse it (i.e. boys will be boys).
The negative influences of our society already have enough of a hold on our environment and young people without further support from me.
I prefer to promote, cultivate and encourage the positive. That is my contribution to the society in which I have to live.
Thanks to all of you for a very lively discussion.
BB
I work in a college with a culturally diverse student population. I am aware of gender bias, age bias, cultural bias and racial bias not only among students but in the faculty and staff as well. We all have to survive within the cultural norms of our society and this includes recognizing those ideas that cultivate the positive and the negative of our society. I believe most cultures can be very open regarding sex, nudity and bodily funtions. The "hang up" is ideas the demean or demoralize individual self esteem and those who try to disguise this behavior by the way they label it (i.e. humor) or excuse it (i.e. boys will be boys).
The negative influences of our society already have enough of a hold on our environment and young people without further support from me.
I prefer to promote, cultivate and encourage the positive. That is my contribution to the society in which I have to live.
Thanks to all of you for a very lively discussion.
BB
