dojo courtesy
Moderator: Available
dojo courtesy
This is a problem that i am constantly facing among our dojo's Junior's karate class ages 8-13: They are constantly drifting their thoughts to other things, they see a technique and then forget it all and need constant assistance. Some of these guys in the mid/adv range are constantly spinning in circles and talking during demonstrations. With me being a brown belt, i try to promote good behavior but let my Sensei deal with it... QUESTION 1: What would you do if you were told to do what was necessary by the instructor - QUESTION 2: what types of inforced discipline do you all have in you dojos for the younger students (in case you are wondering i help assist with the kids classes) and how does it become more serious with rank? (i see it as if you forget your uniform at yellow belt you do push-ups at our dojo - and at rok-kyu you do 35 push-ups, 35 sit-ups, 50 jumping jacks, and 20 kicks per leg multiplied by the 9 different basic kicks they learn.) QUESTION 3: Is this increase in punishment too harsh? I have only thought about it for my own curiousity right now mostly even though they do the kicks from shichi-kyu up...and that has been working for the occasional slips. Please understand that this is after they have forgotten it/misplaced it/lost it/it getting washed on the 4th offense.... Sorry i wrote so much ~ SJR
-
Allen M.
dojo courtesy
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>This is a problem that i am constantly facing among our dojo's Junior's karate class ages 8-13: They are constantly drifting their thoughts to other things, they see a technique and then forget it all and need constant assistance.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Blow it off. It comes with the territory.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> Some of these guys in the mid/adv range are constantly spinning in circles and talking during demonstrations. With me being a brown belt, i try to promote good behavior but let my Sensei deal with it...
QUESTION 1: What would you do…
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I used to say “HEY!” or “HEY! SHUTUP” and if that didn’t work it was 10 or 15 knuckle-pushups off to the side so as not to disturb the rest of the class too badly, or it was for them to hold a deep horse stance for an extended period of time. After a couple of times in quick succession, most get the idea.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> (i see it as if you forget your uniform at yellow belt you do push-ups at our dojo - and at rok-kyu you do 35 push-ups, 35 sit-ups, 50 jumping jacks, and 20 kicks per leg multiplied by the 9 different basic kicks they learn.)
QUESTION 3: Is this increase in punishment too harsh?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I hate punishing kids. Kids are going to be kids and you can’t “punish” them for that. Unless your sensei demands action, just remind them and their parents, continuously if need be, and/or make them sit a class out after the nth time (if you can get away with it).
Kids don’t have the attention span. In one place I taught kids, there were about 6 or so junior black belts who stood in the front line, all young teens, frequently disrupting the others. They were quite rambunctious. I remember the moment they started fidgeting, squirming and talkink, I focused on them with the technique I was describing and used them as demos. That often caught their interest.
I don’t like teaching kids classes. I’ve had two stints of doing it upon request/need just to get my own two enrolled and attending class free of charge. I think teaching kids is like nothing more than babysitting and teaching discipline that their parents should be doing but don't. It gets old real fast. If you like to get up in front of a bunch of young squirrelly ones my hat is off to you.
------------------
Allen Moulton from Uechi-ryu Etcetera
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Blow it off. It comes with the territory.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> Some of these guys in the mid/adv range are constantly spinning in circles and talking during demonstrations. With me being a brown belt, i try to promote good behavior but let my Sensei deal with it...
QUESTION 1: What would you do…
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I used to say “HEY!” or “HEY! SHUTUP” and if that didn’t work it was 10 or 15 knuckle-pushups off to the side so as not to disturb the rest of the class too badly, or it was for them to hold a deep horse stance for an extended period of time. After a couple of times in quick succession, most get the idea.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote
When I started the kids class thing, I established myself right away. They were little pigs, and one at the time whomever threw their coat on the floor took the responsibility of going into the coatroom , one at the time, hanging up their coat, and doing a bunch of pushups off to the side. Within a few classes, the coatroom was nice and neat!QUESTION 2: what types of inforced discipline do you all have in you dojos for the younger students (in case you are wondering i help assist with the kids classes) and how does it become more serious with rank?
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> (i see it as if you forget your uniform at yellow belt you do push-ups at our dojo - and at rok-kyu you do 35 push-ups, 35 sit-ups, 50 jumping jacks, and 20 kicks per leg multiplied by the 9 different basic kicks they learn.)
QUESTION 3: Is this increase in punishment too harsh?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I hate punishing kids. Kids are going to be kids and you can’t “punish” them for that. Unless your sensei demands action, just remind them and their parents, continuously if need be, and/or make them sit a class out after the nth time (if you can get away with it).
Kids don’t have the attention span. In one place I taught kids, there were about 6 or so junior black belts who stood in the front line, all young teens, frequently disrupting the others. They were quite rambunctious. I remember the moment they started fidgeting, squirming and talkink, I focused on them with the technique I was describing and used them as demos. That often caught their interest.
I don’t like teaching kids classes. I’ve had two stints of doing it upon request/need just to get my own two enrolled and attending class free of charge. I think teaching kids is like nothing more than babysitting and teaching discipline that their parents should be doing but don't. It gets old real fast. If you like to get up in front of a bunch of young squirrelly ones my hat is off to you.
------------------
Allen Moulton from Uechi-ryu Etcetera
-
Dana Sheets
- Posts: 2715
- Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2002 6:01 am
dojo courtesy
Try to remember the rule of 5. Kids have about a 5 minute attention span. So try to plan your class activities accordingly. If you have an hour long session, then you're going to need 12 activities.
Also - I don't assign pushups. I tried it in the past and it didn't work for me at all. Today what I do is I tell them very clearly what behavior is expected. Then I ask if they understand by repeating it back to me. Then I tell them they will get 1 warning. On the second infraction they will be told to sit out of class for the rest of the class. This is also told to them in advance and they also have to repeat it.
Kids will live up to expectations and they understand the idea of rules and they understand that if they break the rules they pay for it. IF you stick to your guns. Nobody likes to be left out.
Dana
Also - I don't assign pushups. I tried it in the past and it didn't work for me at all. Today what I do is I tell them very clearly what behavior is expected. Then I ask if they understand by repeating it back to me. Then I tell them they will get 1 warning. On the second infraction they will be told to sit out of class for the rest of the class. This is also told to them in advance and they also have to repeat it.
Kids will live up to expectations and they understand the idea of rules and they understand that if they break the rules they pay for it. IF you stick to your guns. Nobody likes to be left out.
Dana
dojo courtesy
SJR,
I also started assisting in children's classes as a brown belt. It's a great way to migrate from student to assistant teacher to teacher. I co-taught with my sensei and at his encouragement started teaching classes on my own as we added classes to the schedule.
I also found myself frustrated with the big change in the level in discipline from when I would train with adults to these kids who would bounce off the walls it seemed.
Pushups:
My Sensei had a totally different approach to discipline - the kids did pushups, but only as a regular part of the class with everyone else, and never as punishment. They were never required to do a minimum amount even though they were told that if they can only do one they were to try and make it the very best pushup they could do - once they could do one they could try for two, and onward. They also knew that as they progressed in rank (we had a lot of mid rank children's levels under nine years old) doing a certain number of correct pushups was part of the deal. They wanted the rank, they tried for the pushups. Sometimes they would be asked to do pushups individually in front of the class - and were never made fun of, only encouraged, "bend your arms more on the way back" or "everyone look how well he is bending his arms." That sort of thing made the rest of the class, in a natural kid style competitive spirit, want to get the praise next chance they could perform individually - also made them want to improve for the next rank.
It was an example style of discipline and worked very well.
Role of a co-teacher:
On another side though, I found myself constanly bothered by the goofing off in formation etc. My Sensei and I evolved these kid's classes to accommodate the special problems presented. I would position myself at the back of the class and during ceremonial bow would keep an eagle eye out - and my Sensei had no problem with me announcing in a loud clipped voice "No scratching!!" or "Be still!!" when necessary. They didn't see me as they were facing forward and the loud command took them by surprise and the entire class became like stone.
During exercises, when they were in kata formation, with Sensei at the front, I would still position myself in the back and when necessary would walk up behind one of the students and gently turn them to face forward, correct an arm position or a stance, whatever was necessary. After an exercise Sensei and I fell into a routine where one or another student might be singled out for good performance. This also worked very well.
Kid's and Sanchin:
Sanchin was a nightmare at first until we developed a "standing sanchin" exercise for the beginners. We would demonstrate and verbally instruct the students through the opening moves, then we would time them to stay in that position for two full minutes while we walked around correcting arm position, stance, posture, whatever. The catch was, that if they moved, figeted, or even LOOKED anywhere but straight ahead (we were also working a lot on peripheral vision) their name would be called and they had to leave formation and sit on the side. It wasn't made out to be a shaming type thing - just that they had not mastered the exercise yet. Those left standing at the end of two minutes were praised and got "san chin points" next to their name that we would take into consideration when considering promotions, which the kids also knew. Didn't take long at all for the natural competition to kick in and almost every single kid learned to master standing sanchin. The ones who could do that were "allowed" to do the moving sanchin so it became a reward to do the kata.
Flexibility:
I'm not saying these are the best or only ways - I'm just offering some things that I ended up really enjoying in the kids classes. The magic touch was my own Sensei who had a strict but quiet and gentle discipline that worked wonders. We started with a very traditional class format that we soon found would not work too well. With brainstorming and sometimes just the flexibility to try something new, the class evolved into a format that was based on a traditional adult workout but with a few twists here and there. We developed it together. Sometimes if we had to teach a class without the other for some reason, some kids would figure they could try a few tricks, but all we had to say was - "off to the side until you can practice discipline with the rest of us" and things usually got into order. Eventually, we had very little problem with discipline as the newer kids would quickly pick up from the kids who'd been there a while and they all tried so hard for the honest praise that had to be earned and was never handed out freely.
Uniforms and belts::
One last thing, on forgetting belts and uniforms, if a student was not dressed neatly in their own uniform and belt they were simply told to get in the back row, which again was something to avoid because after earning some rank they got closer and closer to the front - they didn't want to surrender their position that they had worked so hard for - and if they did forget their belt and had to workout in the back row they usually had everything with them next class. They were also instructed that their uniform was their own responsibility - not their parents or anyone else's so excuses of "my mom couldn't find it" never cut it. They were simply told "it's your uniform and your responsiblity - line up in the back please." End of story.
Anyway - I went on a bit there but thought I'd share some times that initially I thought I would despise. My sensei had been asked for quite some time to teach a kids class and told me he never wanted to do it for the same disciplinary reasons. I was also loathe to deal with a bunch of hyperactive jumping beans. But it turned out that with his quiet discipline and inner peace that led by example, and his willingness to be flexible and try new ideas, together we evolved a curriculum that turned out some amazing kids that I'm still very proud of today. And I learned so very much even as I thought initially I was teaching in an impossible situation. Now I look back on those years as some of my favorites of my karate career.
Peace,
Lori
I also started assisting in children's classes as a brown belt. It's a great way to migrate from student to assistant teacher to teacher. I co-taught with my sensei and at his encouragement started teaching classes on my own as we added classes to the schedule.
I also found myself frustrated with the big change in the level in discipline from when I would train with adults to these kids who would bounce off the walls it seemed.
Pushups:
My Sensei had a totally different approach to discipline - the kids did pushups, but only as a regular part of the class with everyone else, and never as punishment. They were never required to do a minimum amount even though they were told that if they can only do one they were to try and make it the very best pushup they could do - once they could do one they could try for two, and onward. They also knew that as they progressed in rank (we had a lot of mid rank children's levels under nine years old) doing a certain number of correct pushups was part of the deal. They wanted the rank, they tried for the pushups. Sometimes they would be asked to do pushups individually in front of the class - and were never made fun of, only encouraged, "bend your arms more on the way back" or "everyone look how well he is bending his arms." That sort of thing made the rest of the class, in a natural kid style competitive spirit, want to get the praise next chance they could perform individually - also made them want to improve for the next rank.
It was an example style of discipline and worked very well.
Role of a co-teacher:
On another side though, I found myself constanly bothered by the goofing off in formation etc. My Sensei and I evolved these kid's classes to accommodate the special problems presented. I would position myself at the back of the class and during ceremonial bow would keep an eagle eye out - and my Sensei had no problem with me announcing in a loud clipped voice "No scratching!!" or "Be still!!" when necessary. They didn't see me as they were facing forward and the loud command took them by surprise and the entire class became like stone.
During exercises, when they were in kata formation, with Sensei at the front, I would still position myself in the back and when necessary would walk up behind one of the students and gently turn them to face forward, correct an arm position or a stance, whatever was necessary. After an exercise Sensei and I fell into a routine where one or another student might be singled out for good performance. This also worked very well.
Kid's and Sanchin:
Sanchin was a nightmare at first until we developed a "standing sanchin" exercise for the beginners. We would demonstrate and verbally instruct the students through the opening moves, then we would time them to stay in that position for two full minutes while we walked around correcting arm position, stance, posture, whatever. The catch was, that if they moved, figeted, or even LOOKED anywhere but straight ahead (we were also working a lot on peripheral vision) their name would be called and they had to leave formation and sit on the side. It wasn't made out to be a shaming type thing - just that they had not mastered the exercise yet. Those left standing at the end of two minutes were praised and got "san chin points" next to their name that we would take into consideration when considering promotions, which the kids also knew. Didn't take long at all for the natural competition to kick in and almost every single kid learned to master standing sanchin. The ones who could do that were "allowed" to do the moving sanchin so it became a reward to do the kata.
Flexibility:
I'm not saying these are the best or only ways - I'm just offering some things that I ended up really enjoying in the kids classes. The magic touch was my own Sensei who had a strict but quiet and gentle discipline that worked wonders. We started with a very traditional class format that we soon found would not work too well. With brainstorming and sometimes just the flexibility to try something new, the class evolved into a format that was based on a traditional adult workout but with a few twists here and there. We developed it together. Sometimes if we had to teach a class without the other for some reason, some kids would figure they could try a few tricks, but all we had to say was - "off to the side until you can practice discipline with the rest of us" and things usually got into order. Eventually, we had very little problem with discipline as the newer kids would quickly pick up from the kids who'd been there a while and they all tried so hard for the honest praise that had to be earned and was never handed out freely.
Uniforms and belts::
One last thing, on forgetting belts and uniforms, if a student was not dressed neatly in their own uniform and belt they were simply told to get in the back row, which again was something to avoid because after earning some rank they got closer and closer to the front - they didn't want to surrender their position that they had worked so hard for - and if they did forget their belt and had to workout in the back row they usually had everything with them next class. They were also instructed that their uniform was their own responsibility - not their parents or anyone else's so excuses of "my mom couldn't find it" never cut it. They were simply told "it's your uniform and your responsiblity - line up in the back please." End of story.
Anyway - I went on a bit there but thought I'd share some times that initially I thought I would despise. My sensei had been asked for quite some time to teach a kids class and told me he never wanted to do it for the same disciplinary reasons. I was also loathe to deal with a bunch of hyperactive jumping beans. But it turned out that with his quiet discipline and inner peace that led by example, and his willingness to be flexible and try new ideas, together we evolved a curriculum that turned out some amazing kids that I'm still very proud of today. And I learned so very much even as I thought initially I was teaching in an impossible situation. Now I look back on those years as some of my favorites of my karate career.
Peace,
Lori
dojo courtesy
Thanks to you all that replied with great information. I have more ideas coming already and all of it was great to read!
Allen, Thanks for your advice and i really appreciate the advice about including them as being uke. A lot of them are similar in age with me only being 15 (on the 23rd this month) I have been helping with that class and the 4-7 year old classes for 2 years consistantly now and it great inproves my atitude,patience,and dertermination. And makes me think about how long i am going to wait to have kids! LOL
Dana,Sensei - I like the fact that you are positive in you discipline. I try not to do any discipline at all unless i know that i can enforce it and it usually involves them doing their kata and techniques in front of the class encouraging them to get it right. I liked the idea of them reapeating the rules too! THat makes them know the rules and tell them to make sure they know them. Our civics teacher at school did that kind of thing when we discussed the rights and laws of the american people. He sarcastically said that the reason people break the law is because they don't know any better and need to be taught a lesson while they learn the rules. It made me think that i need to know this course and the rules and not break them so i will not end up in trouble with the law. it was a lesson within itself to pay attention to his course.
Lori,Sensei - I like that you went off into differnt topics and showed a lot of various ideas. The way you seem to handle discipline sounds effective and encouraging. We have them line up in the back also and that has been working okay for now. THat Sanchin excercise sounds cool and competitive.
Thank you all for helping me in my quest! lol i have not been teaching that long and was pleased with your answers. In follow-up what rules/guidelines do you have for the respect deserved towards black belts? Do you have routine classes or do you go off into different varied classes with different excercises and games (challenging stuff for kids to work coordination and excercise.) and if so, what? Peace, SJR
Allen, Thanks for your advice and i really appreciate the advice about including them as being uke. A lot of them are similar in age with me only being 15 (on the 23rd this month) I have been helping with that class and the 4-7 year old classes for 2 years consistantly now and it great inproves my atitude,patience,and dertermination. And makes me think about how long i am going to wait to have kids! LOL
Dana,Sensei - I like the fact that you are positive in you discipline. I try not to do any discipline at all unless i know that i can enforce it and it usually involves them doing their kata and techniques in front of the class encouraging them to get it right. I liked the idea of them reapeating the rules too! THat makes them know the rules and tell them to make sure they know them. Our civics teacher at school did that kind of thing when we discussed the rights and laws of the american people. He sarcastically said that the reason people break the law is because they don't know any better and need to be taught a lesson while they learn the rules. It made me think that i need to know this course and the rules and not break them so i will not end up in trouble with the law. it was a lesson within itself to pay attention to his course.
Lori,Sensei - I like that you went off into differnt topics and showed a lot of various ideas. The way you seem to handle discipline sounds effective and encouraging. We have them line up in the back also and that has been working okay for now. THat Sanchin excercise sounds cool and competitive.
Thank you all for helping me in my quest! lol i have not been teaching that long and was pleased with your answers. In follow-up what rules/guidelines do you have for the respect deserved towards black belts? Do you have routine classes or do you go off into different varied classes with different excercises and games (challenging stuff for kids to work coordination and excercise.) and if so, what? Peace, SJR
