Question:
Has anyone out there had any experience with theraputic magnets? From my years of training, my knees and other joints are killing me recently, much too early in life, if you ask me.
I heard that Magnets may help, but I don't fully understand how they may work to heal, or is this just another new age B.S. Marketing gimmick?
Thoughts? Opinions?
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If you overlook the Way right before your
eyes, how will you know the path beneath
your feet? Advancing has nothing to do with
near and far, yet delusion creates obstacles
high and wide. Students of the mystery, I
humbly urge you, don't waste a moment, night
or day!
- Shih-t'ou (700-790)
Healing Magnets?
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Healing Magnets?
I have no idea why or how they work... actually made a joke when they did work and told Margaret that it must be all psychosomatic (sp) !!
Anyway, I was in for my treatment with Margaret Chojin (Sensei, Mistress of Pain, Giver of the Good Feelings, Provider of Healing Balance...) and she put magnets on me for my lower back pain (She didn't tell me that's what they were for, I found out later). She did some other treatment for my bad knees and then some Tai Massage/stretching. When she was done, she asked how my back was. In all honesty, it didn't hurt at all. It had been pretty bad when I went in, but I didn't feel a thing wrong. So, she removed the magnets and did a few more things and I got ready to leave... I was moving slow again and she asked me again how my back was feeling. I told her that I must have done something getting up, 'cause it was hurting again... not as bad as when I came in, but still... hurting. She had me lay back down and did a few things and... put the magnets back on. When finished, I got up and went through getting ready to leave again. She again asked my how my back felt. I said, I don't know what you did, but it doesn't hurt at all now! She then told me that the only thing she did was put the magnets back on and "a few things to distract you"...
I told her that it was all in my head 'cause there's no such thing as "chi".
I don't care how it works, her healing touch has gotten me from constaint pain every step to taking Uechi-ryu classes twice weekly... all in a short 6-7 months.
Go figure.
Anyway, I was in for my treatment with Margaret Chojin (Sensei, Mistress of Pain, Giver of the Good Feelings, Provider of Healing Balance...) and she put magnets on me for my lower back pain (She didn't tell me that's what they were for, I found out later). She did some other treatment for my bad knees and then some Tai Massage/stretching. When she was done, she asked how my back was. In all honesty, it didn't hurt at all. It had been pretty bad when I went in, but I didn't feel a thing wrong. So, she removed the magnets and did a few more things and I got ready to leave... I was moving slow again and she asked me again how my back was feeling. I told her that I must have done something getting up, 'cause it was hurting again... not as bad as when I came in, but still... hurting. She had me lay back down and did a few things and... put the magnets back on. When finished, I got up and went through getting ready to leave again. She again asked my how my back felt. I said, I don't know what you did, but it doesn't hurt at all now! She then told me that the only thing she did was put the magnets back on and "a few things to distract you"...
I told her that it was all in my head 'cause there's no such thing as "chi".
I don't care how it works, her healing touch has gotten me from constaint pain every step to taking Uechi-ryu classes twice weekly... all in a short 6-7 months.
Go figure.
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Bill Glasheen
- Posts: 17299
- Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
- Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY
Healing Magnets?
Panther
There's nothing magic about Margaret. She's just plain good at what she does. While she ascribes to some "eastern" approaches, her bottomline methods seem pretty straightforward in most case. Her hands know where and how to massage, and she has the kind of heart that should be in every healthcare practitioner. I can vouch for her from personal experience.
Metabaron
The truth about magnets is that a lot of people use them and nobody really knows what they do - if anything. But you are dealing with the pain market. As with the fat market, there are a lot of people out there desperate for a better way and there are plenty of vendors out there willing to provide "services" to those desperate people. And pain is a very funny thing. Modern medicine knows a lot about it, and knows enough to know there is plenty of room for the mind/body element to enter. That piece is still a major frontier with much yet to be discovered.
Any athlete who has been in this business long enough has dealt with knee problems. With some (myself included) there are permanent injuries that need to be dealt with. It may be helpful to get medical attention first. Beyond that, there's still plenty that you can do before resorting to magnets. I'm a big believer in training outside the dojo - basically being one's own physical therapist. I also am a big believer in certain supplements (glucosamine, chondroitin, MSM) for those over 40 who begin to experience joint pain (the early stages of osteoarthritis). There's plenty for conventional medicine to do along the line of keeping the structure in working order, but beyond that a good athlete needs to be one's own healthcare practitioner and dietician.
- Bill
There's nothing magic about Margaret. She's just plain good at what she does. While she ascribes to some "eastern" approaches, her bottomline methods seem pretty straightforward in most case. Her hands know where and how to massage, and she has the kind of heart that should be in every healthcare practitioner. I can vouch for her from personal experience.
Metabaron
The truth about magnets is that a lot of people use them and nobody really knows what they do - if anything. But you are dealing with the pain market. As with the fat market, there are a lot of people out there desperate for a better way and there are plenty of vendors out there willing to provide "services" to those desperate people. And pain is a very funny thing. Modern medicine knows a lot about it, and knows enough to know there is plenty of room for the mind/body element to enter. That piece is still a major frontier with much yet to be discovered.
Any athlete who has been in this business long enough has dealt with knee problems. With some (myself included) there are permanent injuries that need to be dealt with. It may be helpful to get medical attention first. Beyond that, there's still plenty that you can do before resorting to magnets. I'm a big believer in training outside the dojo - basically being one's own physical therapist. I also am a big believer in certain supplements (glucosamine, chondroitin, MSM) for those over 40 who begin to experience joint pain (the early stages of osteoarthritis). There's plenty for conventional medicine to do along the line of keeping the structure in working order, but beyond that a good athlete needs to be one's own healthcare practitioner and dietician.
- Bill
Healing Magnets?
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bill Glasheen:
There's nothing magic about Margaret. She's just plain good at what she does. While she ascribes to some "eastern" approaches, her bottomline methods seem pretty straightforward in most case. Her hands know where and how to massage, and she has the kind of heart that should be in every healthcare practitioner. I can vouch for her from personal experience.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Even if her methods seem pretty straightforward, I haven't gotten any physical therapist for years to get me to feel this good, so for me she's "magical"! I have no doubt that a large part of that "magic" comes from her heart as well as her hands. That's why I called her the "giver of good feelings and the provider of healing balance". Then again, since you've had a treatment you also know that there's a certain amount of "it feels so good when you stop", so I keep telling her that I'm sure she's got this inner "mistress of pain" thing happening.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote
I know about glucosamine (I haven't started yet, but it was recommended to help with joint flexability)... what are the other two?
Thanks.
There's nothing magic about Margaret. She's just plain good at what she does. While she ascribes to some "eastern" approaches, her bottomline methods seem pretty straightforward in most case. Her hands know where and how to massage, and she has the kind of heart that should be in every healthcare practitioner. I can vouch for her from personal experience.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Even if her methods seem pretty straightforward, I haven't gotten any physical therapist for years to get me to feel this good, so for me she's "magical"!
I have no doubt that a large part of that "magic" comes from her heart as well as her hands. That's why I called her the "giver of good feelings and the provider of healing balance". Then again, since you've had a treatment you also know that there's a certain amount of "it feels so good when you stop", so I keep telling her that I'm sure she's got this inner "mistress of pain" thing happening. <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote
Any special routines you'd like to share? Maybe?I'm a big believer in training outside the dojo - basically being one's own physical therapist. I also am a big believer in certain supplements (glucosamine, chondroitin, MSM) for those over 40 who begin to experience joint pain (the early stages of osteoarthritis).
I know about glucosamine (I haven't started yet, but it was recommended to help with joint flexability)... what are the other two?
Thanks.
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Bill Glasheen
- Posts: 17299
- Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
- Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY
Healing Magnets?
Panther
On the issue of "routines", I guess there are the specific and the general.
On the specific front, it depends on what problem you are talking about. For example, a good rule of thumb for knee problems is to start with some leg extensions and leg curls. The goal is to "overcompensate" by making muscles that support the joint stronger. There's also an important element in making sure that the quadriceps is no more than 50% stronger than the hamstring. That can be measured by performance on the weight machines. Going higher than that 3 to 2 strength ratio leads to a whole host of both joint and muscle problems. Many people who do strength training in the dojo (squat/kicks and lots of deep stances) and shun the gym end up with that strength imbalance syndrome.
And then there's the general front. It pays to train outside the dojo (or any other sport arena for that matter). But few amateur warriors do what it takes. I've been promising to go farther on that whole weight-training thing for a while. Maybe that's an internet project for the holidays. I've been doing some revisions, so it isn't quite a direct dump from my archives.
On the "supplement" front.
Chondroitin is a naturally occurring substance in the joint. Simplistically speaking, most biological tissues have an antagonistic building/tearing-down system in place. Chondroitin is a substance that can encourage the biological processes to do more building than breaking down. It is written about in the book The Arthritis Cure, along with glucosamine. Since that book was published, numerous articles have been published in the peer-reviewed literature on the use of glucosamine, chondroitin, and both combined. There are even some review articles out at this point.
MSM is methylsulfonylmethane. It is a byproduct of DMSO - a "supersolvent" that was widely (and inappropriately) used as a cure-all. DMSO (dimethyl sulphoxide) has been banned for human use in the U.S. because it can carry dangerous toxins and impurities straight into the body. MSM is basically a biologically available source of sulfur. There is much anecdotal and a little clinical evidence that MSM contributes to relief of joint pain. Some though are very critical of the "quality" of the available information on the subject www.health.harvard.edu/medline/Health/L0800e.html . As with many of these healthfood store cures, buyers beware. Nevertheless some of the glucosamine/chondroitin formulas on the market (like one from GNC and one from Schiff) have started adding MSM into their formula.
SAM-e (S-adenosylmethionine) is another "nutriceutical" that has been bandied about for treatment of both joint pain and mild depression. However it's expensive as hell, and the cost/benefit doesn't really seem worth it.
Hope that helps.
- Bill
On the issue of "routines", I guess there are the specific and the general.
On the specific front, it depends on what problem you are talking about. For example, a good rule of thumb for knee problems is to start with some leg extensions and leg curls. The goal is to "overcompensate" by making muscles that support the joint stronger. There's also an important element in making sure that the quadriceps is no more than 50% stronger than the hamstring. That can be measured by performance on the weight machines. Going higher than that 3 to 2 strength ratio leads to a whole host of both joint and muscle problems. Many people who do strength training in the dojo (squat/kicks and lots of deep stances) and shun the gym end up with that strength imbalance syndrome.
And then there's the general front. It pays to train outside the dojo (or any other sport arena for that matter). But few amateur warriors do what it takes. I've been promising to go farther on that whole weight-training thing for a while. Maybe that's an internet project for the holidays. I've been doing some revisions, so it isn't quite a direct dump from my archives.
On the "supplement" front.
Chondroitin is a naturally occurring substance in the joint. Simplistically speaking, most biological tissues have an antagonistic building/tearing-down system in place. Chondroitin is a substance that can encourage the biological processes to do more building than breaking down. It is written about in the book The Arthritis Cure, along with glucosamine. Since that book was published, numerous articles have been published in the peer-reviewed literature on the use of glucosamine, chondroitin, and both combined. There are even some review articles out at this point.
MSM is methylsulfonylmethane. It is a byproduct of DMSO - a "supersolvent" that was widely (and inappropriately) used as a cure-all. DMSO (dimethyl sulphoxide) has been banned for human use in the U.S. because it can carry dangerous toxins and impurities straight into the body. MSM is basically a biologically available source of sulfur. There is much anecdotal and a little clinical evidence that MSM contributes to relief of joint pain. Some though are very critical of the "quality" of the available information on the subject www.health.harvard.edu/medline/Health/L0800e.html . As with many of these healthfood store cures, buyers beware. Nevertheless some of the glucosamine/chondroitin formulas on the market (like one from GNC and one from Schiff) have started adding MSM into their formula.
SAM-e (S-adenosylmethionine) is another "nutriceutical" that has been bandied about for treatment of both joint pain and mild depression. However it's expensive as hell, and the cost/benefit doesn't really seem worth it.
Hope that helps.
- Bill
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RACastanet
- Posts: 3744
- Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
- Location: Richmond, VA
Healing Magnets?
Hi Panther. The glucosamine worked wonders on my knees. It does take about 6 weeks to be noticable however. It did nothing for the elbows and back however.
Dr. Chiro works wonders on my back and I visit at least once a month whether I need to or not. If I am about to enter into some serious physical event I will visit prior to the event for some preventative action as I did today.
Margaret worked on me at camp this August and literally added an inch or two to my height. The Virginia contingent included two young, lean guys who are taller than me and when we gathered at the bell for the next session they were literally looking up at me!! The effect lasted about 24 hours. Too bad she lives so far away.
Rich
Dr. Chiro works wonders on my back and I visit at least once a month whether I need to or not. If I am about to enter into some serious physical event I will visit prior to the event for some preventative action as I did today.
Margaret worked on me at camp this August and literally added an inch or two to my height. The Virginia contingent included two young, lean guys who are taller than me and when we gathered at the bell for the next session they were literally looking up at me!! The effect lasted about 24 hours. Too bad she lives so far away.
Rich
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Allen M.
Healing Magnets?
GEM was selling healing magnets a while back. Contact him.
[This message has been edited by Allen M. (edited December 19, 2000).]
[This message has been edited by Allen M. (edited December 19, 2000).]
Healing Magnets?
Anecdotal evidence, FWIW
The past two weeks my lower spine has ranged in pain from bad to excrutiating. I have been treating it aggressively, but not invasively.
I do exercise when I can.
I take large doses daily of enteric aspirin - I now also am taking doses of acetaminophen in between the aspirin doses for pain management (this adding in the acetaminophen at intervals is a new practice for me).
I have been wearing my back brace, which is something I am loath to do. I have borrowed two of the "therapeutic" magnets from my wife's collection and placed them in the back brace so that they sit 1"-2" to either side of L-4 [my L-4 became compressed after a bad ukemi, followed by 5 ukes falling on top of me back in 1973 - it usually does not bother me anymore, but when it does...!]
And I am feeling better. Much better.
So which, if any, of the modalities is responsible? Singly or in combination?
I have no idea. I tried the magnets because I could not see any way they could make it worse, so why not? But I'm not giving up on the other treatments.
FWIW
student
The past two weeks my lower spine has ranged in pain from bad to excrutiating. I have been treating it aggressively, but not invasively.
I do exercise when I can.
I take large doses daily of enteric aspirin - I now also am taking doses of acetaminophen in between the aspirin doses for pain management (this adding in the acetaminophen at intervals is a new practice for me).
I have been wearing my back brace, which is something I am loath to do. I have borrowed two of the "therapeutic" magnets from my wife's collection and placed them in the back brace so that they sit 1"-2" to either side of L-4 [my L-4 became compressed after a bad ukemi, followed by 5 ukes falling on top of me back in 1973 - it usually does not bother me anymore, but when it does...!]
And I am feeling better. Much better.
So which, if any, of the modalities is responsible? Singly or in combination?
I have no idea. I tried the magnets because I could not see any way they could make it worse, so why not? But I'm not giving up on the other treatments.
FWIW
student
Healing Magnets?
Thanks Bill & Rich,
I'll be picking up one of the glucosamine mixtures you've mentioned. Takes 6+ weeks? Not a problem, I've got time.
I've been going to Mistress Margaret every other week (is that bi-weekly or bi-monthly... never can get that right.
)... Anyway, I'm going to see her after lunchtime class today for some "extra" work. I'm also thinking of increasing the time to weekly with her.
I'll be picking up one of the glucosamine mixtures you've mentioned. Takes 6+ weeks? Not a problem, I've got time.
I've been going to Mistress Margaret every other week (is that bi-weekly or bi-monthly... never can get that right.
)... Anyway, I'm going to see her after lunchtime class today for some "extra" work. I'm also thinking of increasing the time to weekly with her. 
Healing Magnets?
Bill
The formula that I mentioned to you last spring is called Structural Lubrication. It contains glucosamine sulfate, and other herbs that will help joints, ligaments and tendons. I think that you mentioned sulfur from methylsulfonylmethane. I do not know how they make glucosamine sulfate, but I suppose it is the same idea of combining glucoseamine and sulfer.
I highly recommend it to anyone who does strenuous physical activities. I do not sell these anymore but I still use them because they work for me.
It is made by Wayne Garland, who calls these herbs Master Formulas. If anyone wants to visit his website the link is http://www.masterformulas.net/
P.S. I get no revenue or kickbacks from this website.
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Len Testa
[This message has been edited by LenTesta (edited December 19, 2000).]
The formula that I mentioned to you last spring is called Structural Lubrication. It contains glucosamine sulfate, and other herbs that will help joints, ligaments and tendons. I think that you mentioned sulfur from methylsulfonylmethane. I do not know how they make glucosamine sulfate, but I suppose it is the same idea of combining glucoseamine and sulfer.
I highly recommend it to anyone who does strenuous physical activities. I do not sell these anymore but I still use them because they work for me.
It is made by Wayne Garland, who calls these herbs Master Formulas. If anyone wants to visit his website the link is http://www.masterformulas.net/
P.S. I get no revenue or kickbacks from this website.
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Len Testa
[This message has been edited by LenTesta (edited December 19, 2000).]
Healing Magnets?
While visiting the website that I just posted, I noticed that Mr. Garland does not list the ingredients of the Structural Lubrication Formula.
I have the list of ingredients that is on the bottle. Unfortunately I am in work now and the bottle is at home.
If anyone is interested in the entire ingredient list I will be hapy to post it.
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Len Testa
I have the list of ingredients that is on the bottle. Unfortunately I am in work now and the bottle is at home.
If anyone is interested in the entire ingredient list I will be hapy to post it.
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Len Testa
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Bill Glasheen
- Posts: 17299
- Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
- Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY
Healing Magnets?
Len
Actually the "anion" portion of glucosamine is never thought of as being involved with the treatment. Yes, glucosamine is avaiable as glucosamine HCl, glucosamine sulfate, and one other form that I can't remember off the top of my head. The sulfate ion just passes through the body. The choice of the anion is more for manufacturing convenience and solubility within the gastrointestinal tract.
- Bill
Actually the "anion" portion of glucosamine is never thought of as being involved with the treatment. Yes, glucosamine is avaiable as glucosamine HCl, glucosamine sulfate, and one other form that I can't remember off the top of my head. The sulfate ion just passes through the body. The choice of the anion is more for manufacturing convenience and solubility within the gastrointestinal tract.
- Bill
Healing Magnets?
I remember reading somewhere about the great solubility of the formula. I did not think that they referenced the sulfate. I believe they list something called a "bio activator" which aids in the digestion.
P.S. About the magnets!
JD may have something to add about this topic.
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Len Testa
P.S. About the magnets!
JD may have something to add about this topic.
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Len Testa
Healing Magnets?
Back to the magnets...
Went to see Mistress of Pain and Health Margaret Chojin again today... Unrelated to the back, but the back was bothering me.
OK, It must be psychosomatic, 'cause she knew my back was bothering me, even though I said not a word and you wouldn't know it hurt from the way I was acting, 'cause it's hurt much worse in the past... Anyway, all she did was put some magnets on me. I'm sitting at my desk and it's barely bothering me at all! (Yesterday it was awful and I kept having to get up and stretch.)
Went to see Mistress of Pain and Health Margaret Chojin again today... Unrelated to the back, but the back was bothering me.
OK, It must be psychosomatic, 'cause she knew my back was bothering me, even though I said not a word and you wouldn't know it hurt from the way I was acting, 'cause it's hurt much worse in the past... Anyway, all she did was put some magnets on me. I'm sitting at my desk and it's barely bothering me at all! (Yesterday it was awful and I kept having to get up and stretch.)
Healing Magnets?
Here's a long, but interesting speech about the mind-body connection.
http://www.wolfsburg.de/~schaefer/kashpirov.htm
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sean
[This message has been edited by SEAN C (edited December 19, 2000).]
http://www.wolfsburg.de/~schaefer/kashpirov.htm
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sean
[This message has been edited by SEAN C (edited December 19, 2000).]
