Hello everyone,
I, like probably every Uechika, have had my share of injuries, but being in my early 20's, the body has always seemed to fix itself without much beyond RICE. However, I recently was training a bit with a MMA group, and I got tossed really hard by a jujitsu-ka and pulled something pretty badly in my lower back. This was several weeks ago, and my back is still pretty shot.
I've hurt my back before, but it wasn't quite this bad. I'm RICE'ing, stretching, and trying to go about my normal routine. I've been tailoring my weight training to stuff that doesn't bother my back much. However, it doesn't seem to be getting better.
Does anyone have any suggestions? I really don't want to make this into a chronic problem...
Thanks,
Mike
Back trouble
Moderator: Available
Back trouble
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by M. Keller:
Hello everyone,
I, like probably every Uechika, have had my share of injuries, but being in my early 20's, the body has always seemed to fix itself without much beyond RICE. However, I recently was training a bit with a MMA group, and I got tossed really hard by a jujitsu-ka and pulled something pretty badly in my lower back. This was several weeks ago, and my back is still pretty shot.
I've hurt my back before, but it wasn't quite this bad. I'm RICE'ing, stretching, and trying to go about my normal routine. I've been tailoring my weight training to stuff that doesn't bother my back much. However, it doesn't seem to be getting better.
Does anyone have any suggestions? I really don't want to make this into a chronic problem...
Thanks,
Mike<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Mike:
Many, it seems eons, ago in the 1960's there was a 5:00 am program on Tai Chi given by a woman Master. Her first exercise was to stand with heels together, hands on hips, and slowly rotate her pelvis, held held fixed at the x-y-z point in space, in a languid circle 32 times in clock and then counter- clock
directions ("like churning butter"). This, she stated, was to massage the internal organs and protect the back and muscles. I found that it was not as easy to perform in the beginning. I have done the rotations since then before every practice of the 3-Kata each day.
Of particular interest to you is that when I have been in similar circumstances to you, I performed the 'pelvic rotations' with my thumbs pressed tightly against the 'hurt points' on the lower back, working them in parallel up the back at the hurt points - pelvis girdle to the upper back. Slowy, with deliberate relaxation, rotate in circles ( imagine looking down the Z axis from the ceiling at your head -- you would see your hips execute a circle whose radius is about 6" larger than your hip width). Dr. Glasheen can explain the mechanism of pain-pressure release ponts as practiced by sports injury therapists (e.g., Brudenko Sports Clinc Bedford MA).
She also charmingly explained that "by massaging the interal organs you would not be constipated". As the Venerable Van might say "No s**t!" [GRIN]
Note Bene: make sure there is no disk damge. Best wishes.
Hello everyone,
I, like probably every Uechika, have had my share of injuries, but being in my early 20's, the body has always seemed to fix itself without much beyond RICE. However, I recently was training a bit with a MMA group, and I got tossed really hard by a jujitsu-ka and pulled something pretty badly in my lower back. This was several weeks ago, and my back is still pretty shot.
I've hurt my back before, but it wasn't quite this bad. I'm RICE'ing, stretching, and trying to go about my normal routine. I've been tailoring my weight training to stuff that doesn't bother my back much. However, it doesn't seem to be getting better.
Does anyone have any suggestions? I really don't want to make this into a chronic problem...
Thanks,
Mike<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Mike:
Many, it seems eons, ago in the 1960's there was a 5:00 am program on Tai Chi given by a woman Master. Her first exercise was to stand with heels together, hands on hips, and slowly rotate her pelvis, held held fixed at the x-y-z point in space, in a languid circle 32 times in clock and then counter- clock
directions ("like churning butter"). This, she stated, was to massage the internal organs and protect the back and muscles. I found that it was not as easy to perform in the beginning. I have done the rotations since then before every practice of the 3-Kata each day.
Of particular interest to you is that when I have been in similar circumstances to you, I performed the 'pelvic rotations' with my thumbs pressed tightly against the 'hurt points' on the lower back, working them in parallel up the back at the hurt points - pelvis girdle to the upper back. Slowy, with deliberate relaxation, rotate in circles ( imagine looking down the Z axis from the ceiling at your head -- you would see your hips execute a circle whose radius is about 6" larger than your hip width). Dr. Glasheen can explain the mechanism of pain-pressure release ponts as practiced by sports injury therapists (e.g., Brudenko Sports Clinc Bedford MA).
She also charmingly explained that "by massaging the interal organs you would not be constipated". As the Venerable Van might say "No s**t!" [GRIN]
Note Bene: make sure there is no disk damge. Best wishes.
-
Bill Glasheen
- Posts: 17299
- Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
- Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY
Back trouble
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote
In this situation, the most important thing to do is rule out the serious stuff. You want to make sure you haven't ruptured or herniated a disc, or otherwise traumatized a nerve. Chances are EXTREMELY high that you are fine, but best to get someone to look at you if your pain isn't going away. The big warning flags are things like pain radiating down the leg, numbness anywhere, or anything that might indicate that nerves coming out of the spinal column are either extremely ticked or disfunctional.
Almost all acute back pain (if this is your problem) cures itself with a magic medicine called time.
I have a general philosophy about injuries. Unless you've been shot or were in a car accident, an injury SHOULD be a message that something is wrong. Your first response is obviously to restore your original function, but you shouldn't stop there. Generally this means you need to alter what you were doing and/or train your body to be a little more robust.
Most people need routine training for the trunk. If you want to keep your back (particularly the lower back) healthy, you need to exercise the WHOLE trunk. This means the abdominals in the front, the obliques on the side, and of course the actual lower back muscles themselves. The entire midsection plays an important role in maintaining back and spinal health, and it is vital to connecting the power in the lower body to the delivery at the fist.
Training means stretching (PROPERLY), as well as exercising. I often mix the two together. For example I will do back hyperextension exercises on "the chair" with a weight on my head (around 15 reps) and then do a PNF stretch of pulling my knee (alternating sides) to my chest. I will do dumbbell tilts to the opposite side I am holding the weight, and then do a side bend PNF. I will do that neat trunk rotation machine, and then do a spinal twist PNF stretch. I will do cable pulls with my foot while flat on my back, and then get in that long front-stance-like position for a hip flexor stretch.
I go out of my way to avoid abdominal exercises that stress my lower back. There are times when people do more harm than good. There are a lot of stupid ab exercises, both on the stretching and flexing end of things.
Take this as a message that you need to treat your trunk well, Mike. Go get checked out by an MD/DO/DC or whomever, and then give your body time to heal. Then spend the rest of your life making that trunk strong and supple enough so it doesn't happen again.
Good luck!
- Bill
The first thing I always say when engaging in conversations like this is that people should first seek the services of a qualified health professional IN PERSON. After that, you're good to go.I'm not a doctor, but I play one on TeeVee...
In this situation, the most important thing to do is rule out the serious stuff. You want to make sure you haven't ruptured or herniated a disc, or otherwise traumatized a nerve. Chances are EXTREMELY high that you are fine, but best to get someone to look at you if your pain isn't going away. The big warning flags are things like pain radiating down the leg, numbness anywhere, or anything that might indicate that nerves coming out of the spinal column are either extremely ticked or disfunctional.
Almost all acute back pain (if this is your problem) cures itself with a magic medicine called time.
I have a general philosophy about injuries. Unless you've been shot or were in a car accident, an injury SHOULD be a message that something is wrong. Your first response is obviously to restore your original function, but you shouldn't stop there. Generally this means you need to alter what you were doing and/or train your body to be a little more robust.
Most people need routine training for the trunk. If you want to keep your back (particularly the lower back) healthy, you need to exercise the WHOLE trunk. This means the abdominals in the front, the obliques on the side, and of course the actual lower back muscles themselves. The entire midsection plays an important role in maintaining back and spinal health, and it is vital to connecting the power in the lower body to the delivery at the fist.
Training means stretching (PROPERLY), as well as exercising. I often mix the two together. For example I will do back hyperextension exercises on "the chair" with a weight on my head (around 15 reps) and then do a PNF stretch of pulling my knee (alternating sides) to my chest. I will do dumbbell tilts to the opposite side I am holding the weight, and then do a side bend PNF. I will do that neat trunk rotation machine, and then do a spinal twist PNF stretch. I will do cable pulls with my foot while flat on my back, and then get in that long front-stance-like position for a hip flexor stretch.
I go out of my way to avoid abdominal exercises that stress my lower back. There are times when people do more harm than good. There are a lot of stupid ab exercises, both on the stretching and flexing end of things.
Take this as a message that you need to treat your trunk well, Mike. Go get checked out by an MD/DO/DC or whomever, and then give your body time to heal. Then spend the rest of your life making that trunk strong and supple enough so it doesn't happen again.
Good luck!
- Bill
Back trouble
Dear Bill & topos,
Thanks for your replies. Beyond going to see a GP, I'll strengthen my back to make sure I don't reinjure it. I work my abdominals every morning (bicycle sit ups), but I'll be adding some new exercises to my routine.
Thanks,
Mike
Thanks for your replies. Beyond going to see a GP, I'll strengthen my back to make sure I don't reinjure it. I work my abdominals every morning (bicycle sit ups), but I'll be adding some new exercises to my routine.
Thanks,
Mike
-
Bill Glasheen
- Posts: 17299
- Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
- Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY
Back trouble
Mike
Sorry I didn't catch this right away. It hit me last night when I was working out in the gym. <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote
* If you work a muscle group every day, you will inevitably make it SMALLER and have lower maximum strength and speed of contraction. Muscle development is a one-step-back, two-steps-forward proposition, that requires a rest period to achieve the gains.
* Remember that you cannot spot-lose fat. If you are concerned about a spare tire around the waist (I know this isn't a problem for you, Mike), it doesn't particularly help to do situps or other abdominal exercises. Fat comes off at any point in the body in a manner determined by you genetics. Fat will only go away when calories burned exceed calories consumed (and that dynamic tension gets very tricky when you start starving yourself).
In any case, the experts now say that you should have at least a day of rest after working a muscle group with resistance training (whether it be external or internal). A light workout is fine, and can actually aid in the healing/growth process. But a karateka needs very strong trunk muscles - particularly if you have powerful legs/hips and want to transfer that energy up the trunk to the arms and hands. That isn't going to happen if you do light waist work.
Personally I do most of my abdominal workout as a "warm down" after my karate workout. It adds a fraction of an hour to my total gym time. I do the lower back on my "legs" day, as these muscles are already getting a good workout when I do things like squats, power cleans, or walking lunges. Twice a week for abdominals is fine, and three times a week should be the max. Just make sure you work them HARD on those workout days. If you read the literature on this stuff (EMG studies), a lot of the gadgets they sell to work on these are essentially worthless.
Hope that helps.
- Bill
Sorry I didn't catch this right away. It hit me last night when I was working out in the gym. <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote
The general consensus now is that you should treat your abdominals like any other muscle group. In other words, to develop them you must work them hard and then REST them. It is a bad idea to work any muscle group intensively every day. They only thing you'll accomplish is that you'll break them down.I work my abdominals every morning (bicycle sit ups)
* If you work a muscle group every day, you will inevitably make it SMALLER and have lower maximum strength and speed of contraction. Muscle development is a one-step-back, two-steps-forward proposition, that requires a rest period to achieve the gains.
* Remember that you cannot spot-lose fat. If you are concerned about a spare tire around the waist (I know this isn't a problem for you, Mike), it doesn't particularly help to do situps or other abdominal exercises. Fat comes off at any point in the body in a manner determined by you genetics. Fat will only go away when calories burned exceed calories consumed (and that dynamic tension gets very tricky when you start starving yourself).
In any case, the experts now say that you should have at least a day of rest after working a muscle group with resistance training (whether it be external or internal). A light workout is fine, and can actually aid in the healing/growth process. But a karateka needs very strong trunk muscles - particularly if you have powerful legs/hips and want to transfer that energy up the trunk to the arms and hands. That isn't going to happen if you do light waist work.
Personally I do most of my abdominal workout as a "warm down" after my karate workout. It adds a fraction of an hour to my total gym time. I do the lower back on my "legs" day, as these muscles are already getting a good workout when I do things like squats, power cleans, or walking lunges. Twice a week for abdominals is fine, and three times a week should be the max. Just make sure you work them HARD on those workout days. If you read the literature on this stuff (EMG studies), a lot of the gadgets they sell to work on these are essentially worthless.
Hope that helps.
- Bill
Back trouble
Hello all,
Dr Glasheen has done a great job of covering this topic. However,being an Osteopathic Physician, I have a few additional comments on back pain that I would like to share. I hope you will indulge me.
I agree with Dr Glasheen on FIRST seeing a physician IN PERSON. None of this information is meant to replace being seen by a physician.
With any back injury, I would be especially worried about pain radiating down past the knee, point tenderness over a bone, fever, weight loss, incontinence, numbness in the “saddle area” and any loss of sensory or motor function.
Provided that the cause of pain is found to be soft tissue injury, muscle spasm, and/or somatic dysfunction, the following approach is often helpful.
Contrary to popular belief, ACUTE muscle injuries respond better to shortening of the muscle. This allows the muscle spindle fibers to reset, which then facilitates relaxation of the injured muscle. Stretching just after an acute injury is counter-productive because the injured muscle attempts even harder to contract and protect the area.
In order to shorten an injured muscle, one has to find a position that will allow the injured muscle to be relaxed, but in the contracted position. For example, the best position to relax the biceps would be to rest the arm in the flexed position with the wrist near the shoulder but with the biceps completely relaxed. For the low back, this position is often hyperextension of the back with slight leaning towards on side or the other. The key is for the muscles to be relaxed. So to hyperextend the low back muscles, one could place pillows under the chest and thighs while lying face down. Then one has to make small adjustments to either side to find the position of greatest comfort. Once the best position is found, it is maintained for a minimum of 90 seconds. Most people respond best with 2-5 minutes. After this, one should SLOWLY return the body to a normal position while trying to avoid flexing the injured muscle. This is best done with assistance.
Non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs (ie advil, motrin, naprosyn, vioxx, etc) have been found to be very helpful with low back pain but have the risk of GI upset and bleeding. In really severe cases, corticosteroids have been found to relieve pain and reduce the likelihood of chronic pain. All medications should be taken under the care and supervision of a physician.
The best way to avoid a chronic overuse or muscle injury is to give the body time to heal.
In the setting of a CHRONIC muscle injury or after the acute phase has passed (which can last days to weeks), stretching and strengthening are the best approach.
------------------
Michael Kelly, DO
www.dimmak.net
The Science Behind The Legend
Dr Glasheen has done a great job of covering this topic. However,being an Osteopathic Physician, I have a few additional comments on back pain that I would like to share. I hope you will indulge me.
I agree with Dr Glasheen on FIRST seeing a physician IN PERSON. None of this information is meant to replace being seen by a physician.
With any back injury, I would be especially worried about pain radiating down past the knee, point tenderness over a bone, fever, weight loss, incontinence, numbness in the “saddle area” and any loss of sensory or motor function.
Provided that the cause of pain is found to be soft tissue injury, muscle spasm, and/or somatic dysfunction, the following approach is often helpful.
Contrary to popular belief, ACUTE muscle injuries respond better to shortening of the muscle. This allows the muscle spindle fibers to reset, which then facilitates relaxation of the injured muscle. Stretching just after an acute injury is counter-productive because the injured muscle attempts even harder to contract and protect the area.
In order to shorten an injured muscle, one has to find a position that will allow the injured muscle to be relaxed, but in the contracted position. For example, the best position to relax the biceps would be to rest the arm in the flexed position with the wrist near the shoulder but with the biceps completely relaxed. For the low back, this position is often hyperextension of the back with slight leaning towards on side or the other. The key is for the muscles to be relaxed. So to hyperextend the low back muscles, one could place pillows under the chest and thighs while lying face down. Then one has to make small adjustments to either side to find the position of greatest comfort. Once the best position is found, it is maintained for a minimum of 90 seconds. Most people respond best with 2-5 minutes. After this, one should SLOWLY return the body to a normal position while trying to avoid flexing the injured muscle. This is best done with assistance.
Non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs (ie advil, motrin, naprosyn, vioxx, etc) have been found to be very helpful with low back pain but have the risk of GI upset and bleeding. In really severe cases, corticosteroids have been found to relieve pain and reduce the likelihood of chronic pain. All medications should be taken under the care and supervision of a physician.
The best way to avoid a chronic overuse or muscle injury is to give the body time to heal.
In the setting of a CHRONIC muscle injury or after the acute phase has passed (which can last days to weeks), stretching and strengthening are the best approach.
------------------
Michael Kelly, DO
www.dimmak.net
The Science Behind The Legend
Back trouble
Drs. Kelly and Galsheen-Sensei have posted some very valuable information on this topic.
I would add one aspect to facilitate healing of your injury - self-hypnosis or guided meditation.
In instances where a muscle group has been injured, an event called muscle guarding can occur. Muscle guarding is a tensing of surrounding muscles (often including the offended areas) to protect ont from the pain and discomfort one is feeling.
By working through a progressive relaxation program, where muscle groups are consciously relaxed in a step-by-step manner, muscle guarding can be reduced significantly, blood flow to the offended areas increased and healing facilitated.
Think of it this way - one has a toothache. The muscles of the neck and jaws tighten to "protect" one from the discomfort. The tension can and often does lead to a headache or migraine. This is an instance where the body's natural tendency to "armor up" to protect from an injury is not appropriate and can actually add to the discomfort.
While this approach is largely pallative in nature, it DOES work. A friend of mine, Wendi Friesen, another hypnotherapist, has a number of tapes and CD's on her site that might help.
As I suffer from lateral sinus migraine, aggravated by muscular spasming in the neck, mis-diagnised as cluster headaches for a number of years, I can attest to the effectiveness of Wendi's headache control tape as muscle guarding in headaches like mine are a major aggravating factor.
She can be found at www.wendi.com.
This is an unpaid, unsolicited testimonial.
Respectfully,
Lee Darrow, C.Ht.
I would add one aspect to facilitate healing of your injury - self-hypnosis or guided meditation.
In instances where a muscle group has been injured, an event called muscle guarding can occur. Muscle guarding is a tensing of surrounding muscles (often including the offended areas) to protect ont from the pain and discomfort one is feeling.
By working through a progressive relaxation program, where muscle groups are consciously relaxed in a step-by-step manner, muscle guarding can be reduced significantly, blood flow to the offended areas increased and healing facilitated.
Think of it this way - one has a toothache. The muscles of the neck and jaws tighten to "protect" one from the discomfort. The tension can and often does lead to a headache or migraine. This is an instance where the body's natural tendency to "armor up" to protect from an injury is not appropriate and can actually add to the discomfort.
While this approach is largely pallative in nature, it DOES work. A friend of mine, Wendi Friesen, another hypnotherapist, has a number of tapes and CD's on her site that might help.
As I suffer from lateral sinus migraine, aggravated by muscular spasming in the neck, mis-diagnised as cluster headaches for a number of years, I can attest to the effectiveness of Wendi's headache control tape as muscle guarding in headaches like mine are a major aggravating factor.
She can be found at www.wendi.com.
This is an unpaid, unsolicited testimonial.
Respectfully,
Lee Darrow, C.Ht.
-
Bill Glasheen
- Posts: 17299
- Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
- Location: Richmond, VA --- Louisville, KY
Back trouble
Thanks, Dr. Kelly. Always great to learn something new!
Looking forward to some good discussions in the near future.
- Bill
Looking forward to some good discussions in the near future.
- Bill
-
RACastanet
- Posts: 3744
- Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
- Location: Richmond, VA
Back trouble
Hi Mike. My back can be a problem if I do not stretch regularly. I also participate in very strenuous, high contact activity once a week over and above my regular gym workouts. To keep my back, and my neck, functining properly I pay a visit the Chiropractor about once a month whether I need it or not. It is easier to maintain than repair my back.
What are your thoughts on that Dr. Kelly?
Regards, Rich
What are your thoughts on that Dr. Kelly?
Regards, Rich
Back trouble
Hello Rich,
I would like to comment on your question but I must first state that my comments are NOT intended to replace seeing a physician if one has a medical problem or injury.
Warming up and stretching before starting any exercise is always a good idea. As for the monthly visits to the Chiropractor, Chiropractic and Osteopathy differ in their manipulation techniques and frequency of treatments. Osteopathy contains a number of gentle manipulation techniques in addition to the high velocity low amplitude manipulations that cause the “cracking” or “popping of joints.” The choice of technique depends on the patient and particular illness or injury. In contrast, Chiropractors tend to use the “cracking” techniques for almost all patients.
As for the frequency of manipulation, Chiropractic treatments are often given three times a week, and patients are encouraged to follow up at regular intervals for “adjustments.” The belief is that the spine needs constant adjustment for optimum health.
In contrast, Osteopathic manipulations are usually performed no more than once a week and only until a particular problem is fixed. Osteopaths believe that the body has an innate ability to heal and that too much spinal manipulation can cause over-stretching of the spinal ligaments resulting in an increased vulnerability to injury. It is believed that once a particular problem is corrected, there should be no need for “maintenance” manipulation.
However, there are two exceptions. The first is chronic disease. People with chronic diseases may require manipulation therapy whenever they have pain or an exacerbation, but they do not undergo “maintenance adjustments” when they are feeling fine. The other exception is an acute injury or illness where gentle manipulation might be performed more than once a week; however, high velocity manipulations (The popping of joints.) are still limited to once weekly.
I am not suggesting that one method is better than the other. I am just pointing out the differences. Thus, an Osteopathic physician might not encourage monthly visits unless there was a chronic condition with monthly exacerbations.
------------------
Michael Kelly, DO
www.dimmak.net
The Science Behind The Legend
I would like to comment on your question but I must first state that my comments are NOT intended to replace seeing a physician if one has a medical problem or injury.
Warming up and stretching before starting any exercise is always a good idea. As for the monthly visits to the Chiropractor, Chiropractic and Osteopathy differ in their manipulation techniques and frequency of treatments. Osteopathy contains a number of gentle manipulation techniques in addition to the high velocity low amplitude manipulations that cause the “cracking” or “popping of joints.” The choice of technique depends on the patient and particular illness or injury. In contrast, Chiropractors tend to use the “cracking” techniques for almost all patients.
As for the frequency of manipulation, Chiropractic treatments are often given three times a week, and patients are encouraged to follow up at regular intervals for “adjustments.” The belief is that the spine needs constant adjustment for optimum health.
In contrast, Osteopathic manipulations are usually performed no more than once a week and only until a particular problem is fixed. Osteopaths believe that the body has an innate ability to heal and that too much spinal manipulation can cause over-stretching of the spinal ligaments resulting in an increased vulnerability to injury. It is believed that once a particular problem is corrected, there should be no need for “maintenance” manipulation.
However, there are two exceptions. The first is chronic disease. People with chronic diseases may require manipulation therapy whenever they have pain or an exacerbation, but they do not undergo “maintenance adjustments” when they are feeling fine. The other exception is an acute injury or illness where gentle manipulation might be performed more than once a week; however, high velocity manipulations (The popping of joints.) are still limited to once weekly.
I am not suggesting that one method is better than the other. I am just pointing out the differences. Thus, an Osteopathic physician might not encourage monthly visits unless there was a chronic condition with monthly exacerbations.
------------------
Michael Kelly, DO
www.dimmak.net
The Science Behind The Legend
Back trouble
I get to write from the perspecitve of an MD who's been thrown hard and who a few months ago had some whoop-ass back pain so severe I could barely rise from a chair and shuffled around like I was 80. The precipitant: probably a combination of a bad mattress and returning to Uechi and running too quickly.
Some things I've found helpful and strongly encourage:
Barring contraindications, full dose anti-inflammatory medication, which in the case of ibuprofen, means 800 three times a day (food cuts down on stomach irritation) and again barring no liver disease or alcohol, an additional 4 grams of tylenol a day (8 extra strength spread out so you alternate with the ibuprofen and always have something peaking). Keep in mind this causes small gastric erosions in all / nearly all, upset in some, and ulcers sometimes with serious complications in others. Can put the squeeze on your kidneys too, if you have any kidney impairment to start (includes many undiagnosed people beyond middle age).
KEEP WALKING. Avoid what brought on your injuy until you're healed then return to it carefully, but 3 days of bedrest is the max I allow in the most severe of strains. More increases your risk of permanent disability. Walking keeps you mobile and avoids the spasm and locking you can get in a chair or bed. Don't want to walk? Then you'll have the same pain, and reduce your mobility.
NICE MATTRESS. The firmest that's comfortable, usually, and they're not cheap, but since you spend 1/3 of your time on it, be good to yourself.
A good way to reach Dr. Kelley's back rested position is on an inflatable yoga / fitness dork / birthing ball. Lets you put your back in extension and totally relax it. Keeps it flexible too. If you don't have one and don't want one, try lying flat on the floor with your calves resting on the seat of a chair. Uechi your back flat to the floor.
Fever or chills or history of significant infection (somtimes just dental work) can mean an abscess in the muscles or bones of your back. I've got a paraplegic patient who'd like you to encourage taking this matter seriously. But most of us know just which punk flipped us and on which day, and it didn't give us an abscess.
History of cancer and back pain = potential emergency. The symptoms Dr. Kelley mentioned (bowel or bladder dysfunction, anesthesia in the saddle area) are signs of spinal cord compression (from mets). I know several paraplegic cancer patients who'd encourage you to take this seriously too. But again, most of us are the kind of younger adults without a cancer history this doesn't apply to. If you got cord compression from an injury, you can bet your butt was taken to the ER and probably they had to use the jaws of life to get you into the ambulance.
Weakness in a leg or numbness or pain reproduced after someone ELSE lifts the side with the pai >30-45 degrees from flat or decreased reflexes can indicate a damaged disc. Re: the advice that you rule this out, sure, have a neurologic exam (by a GP) of your legs if you have any symptoms in them. Are you going to get any different treatment? No, not unless you fail months of conservative treatment. You don't want back surgery if you can avoid it. NB: randomly MRI'ing people backs they found a lot have asymptomatic herniations--about the same as were found in people with symptoms. So if they find a herniation, it's no guarantee it's your problem or fixing it will help.
REALLY careful with chiropracters. They ALL (my experience only) will find SOMETHING expenisve wrong with you. Ask the people I've met with vertebral artery dissection and stroke if you want to be careful here.
Muscle relaxants? Sedatives mostly--I wouldn't really advise them. Narcotics? Sometimes required, but generally increase your risk of needing them chronically, and the rest of the doctors you meet eyeing you suspiciously, and trust me, most of the people on them still have their pain. Steroids? Never heard of using them for back injuries, but avoid anything but a low dose short course (which I'm sure is what Dr. Kelley was suggesting) like the plague. Ask my 28 yr old colleague with the BILATERAL HIP REPLACEMENTS. And have you seen Jerry Lewis these days?
WATCH your posture. I simply DO NOT lean over patients to listen anymore. I'm not invincible like I was when I was 20, and it helped push me into disabling pain. This includes how you sit. And walk.
Lift smart!
Some things I've found helpful and strongly encourage:
Barring contraindications, full dose anti-inflammatory medication, which in the case of ibuprofen, means 800 three times a day (food cuts down on stomach irritation) and again barring no liver disease or alcohol, an additional 4 grams of tylenol a day (8 extra strength spread out so you alternate with the ibuprofen and always have something peaking). Keep in mind this causes small gastric erosions in all / nearly all, upset in some, and ulcers sometimes with serious complications in others. Can put the squeeze on your kidneys too, if you have any kidney impairment to start (includes many undiagnosed people beyond middle age).
KEEP WALKING. Avoid what brought on your injuy until you're healed then return to it carefully, but 3 days of bedrest is the max I allow in the most severe of strains. More increases your risk of permanent disability. Walking keeps you mobile and avoids the spasm and locking you can get in a chair or bed. Don't want to walk? Then you'll have the same pain, and reduce your mobility.
NICE MATTRESS. The firmest that's comfortable, usually, and they're not cheap, but since you spend 1/3 of your time on it, be good to yourself.
A good way to reach Dr. Kelley's back rested position is on an inflatable yoga / fitness dork / birthing ball. Lets you put your back in extension and totally relax it. Keeps it flexible too. If you don't have one and don't want one, try lying flat on the floor with your calves resting on the seat of a chair. Uechi your back flat to the floor.
Fever or chills or history of significant infection (somtimes just dental work) can mean an abscess in the muscles or bones of your back. I've got a paraplegic patient who'd like you to encourage taking this matter seriously. But most of us know just which punk flipped us and on which day, and it didn't give us an abscess.
History of cancer and back pain = potential emergency. The symptoms Dr. Kelley mentioned (bowel or bladder dysfunction, anesthesia in the saddle area) are signs of spinal cord compression (from mets). I know several paraplegic cancer patients who'd encourage you to take this seriously too. But again, most of us are the kind of younger adults without a cancer history this doesn't apply to. If you got cord compression from an injury, you can bet your butt was taken to the ER and probably they had to use the jaws of life to get you into the ambulance.
Weakness in a leg or numbness or pain reproduced after someone ELSE lifts the side with the pai >30-45 degrees from flat or decreased reflexes can indicate a damaged disc. Re: the advice that you rule this out, sure, have a neurologic exam (by a GP) of your legs if you have any symptoms in them. Are you going to get any different treatment? No, not unless you fail months of conservative treatment. You don't want back surgery if you can avoid it. NB: randomly MRI'ing people backs they found a lot have asymptomatic herniations--about the same as were found in people with symptoms. So if they find a herniation, it's no guarantee it's your problem or fixing it will help.
REALLY careful with chiropracters. They ALL (my experience only) will find SOMETHING expenisve wrong with you. Ask the people I've met with vertebral artery dissection and stroke if you want to be careful here.
Muscle relaxants? Sedatives mostly--I wouldn't really advise them. Narcotics? Sometimes required, but generally increase your risk of needing them chronically, and the rest of the doctors you meet eyeing you suspiciously, and trust me, most of the people on them still have their pain. Steroids? Never heard of using them for back injuries, but avoid anything but a low dose short course (which I'm sure is what Dr. Kelley was suggesting) like the plague. Ask my 28 yr old colleague with the BILATERAL HIP REPLACEMENTS. And have you seen Jerry Lewis these days?
WATCH your posture. I simply DO NOT lean over patients to listen anymore. I'm not invincible like I was when I was 20, and it helped push me into disabling pain. This includes how you sit. And walk.
Lift smart!
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RACastanet
- Posts: 3744
- Joined: Thu Mar 11, 1999 6:01 am
- Location: Richmond, VA
Back trouble
Ian stated "I'm not invincible like I was when I was 20".
Ian: Just how old have you gotten since we last met... 26, 27? I thought that back pain stuff just hit us "really" old guys approaching 50!
Regarding the Chiro, I'm pretty fortunate in having one that sticks to spinal manipulation and does not get into exotic treatments. I must admit that allowing someone to crack my back and neck takes a leap of faith but in my case at least, it enables me to continue a pretty severe training regimin. It works for me.
By the way, what is Tim up to?
Regards, Rich
Ian: Just how old have you gotten since we last met... 26, 27? I thought that back pain stuff just hit us "really" old guys approaching 50!
Regarding the Chiro, I'm pretty fortunate in having one that sticks to spinal manipulation and does not get into exotic treatments. I must admit that allowing someone to crack my back and neck takes a leap of faith but in my case at least, it enables me to continue a pretty severe training regimin. It works for me.
By the way, what is Tim up to?
Regards, Rich
Back trouble
Hello everyone,
Dr. Kelly & Ian: Thanks for the advice. I spoke to a trainer, and I'm currently taking 600mg ibuprofen with every meal, doing no hard stretching for the time being, and very light rehab exercises (leg lifts, etc).
Glad to hear that you're training again, Ian. I only hope that I'll be able to pull off medical school as you did while still training The UVA interview is on tuesday...
Best,
Mike
Dr. Kelly & Ian: Thanks for the advice. I spoke to a trainer, and I'm currently taking 600mg ibuprofen with every meal, doing no hard stretching for the time being, and very light rehab exercises (leg lifts, etc).
Glad to hear that you're training again, Ian. I only hope that I'll be able to pull off medical school as you did while still training
The UVA interview is on tuesday...Best,
Mike
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f.Channell
- Posts: 3541
- Joined: Thu Oct 21, 1999 6:01 am
- Location: Valhalla
Back trouble
One thing I noticed in the replies to this topic.
Without proper training in breakfalls and the conditioning which goes along with it, I wouldn't let a grappler throw you.
It's probably 2 months before my teacher lets someone gets tossed hard in my judo classes. Usually a lower ranked grappler is the one who's going to hurt you.
This is something to watch out for in a seminar situation.
The takedown in Dan Kumite for example is a relatively simple fall to take and doesn't prepare you for good jujitsu throw.
Be careful, this is from a guy who's hurt his back, broken ribs and broken collar bones in takedowns.
f.
Without proper training in breakfalls and the conditioning which goes along with it, I wouldn't let a grappler throw you.
It's probably 2 months before my teacher lets someone gets tossed hard in my judo classes. Usually a lower ranked grappler is the one who's going to hurt you.
This is something to watch out for in a seminar situation.
The takedown in Dan Kumite for example is a relatively simple fall to take and doesn't prepare you for good jujitsu throw.
Be careful, this is from a guy who's hurt his back, broken ribs and broken collar bones in takedowns.
f.
Back trouble
f. channell,
So true about conditioning for throws. I thing I am going to start incorporating my falls as part of my regular workout outside of class. We haven't been practicing our falls in a while and I now wish I had been.
Rich Castanet just started up a new member class two weeks ago. Saturday, we took out the mats to show the beginners some falls.
Rich was showing break falls and their application. He asked me to be his uke for showing a judo side throw.
Like I said, I haven't been practicing my falls for a while. Even though I landed on my side, successfully slapped the mat with all the correct body parts, I must have turned my neck funny when thrown... boy, has my neck been sore. I must not have tucked properly when thrown. Definitely, need to regularly practice those.
Good point you made. I am the proof.
Vicki
So true about conditioning for throws. I thing I am going to start incorporating my falls as part of my regular workout outside of class. We haven't been practicing our falls in a while and I now wish I had been.
Rich Castanet just started up a new member class two weeks ago. Saturday, we took out the mats to show the beginners some falls.
Rich was showing break falls and their application. He asked me to be his uke for showing a judo side throw.
Like I said, I haven't been practicing my falls for a while. Even though I landed on my side, successfully slapped the mat with all the correct body parts, I must have turned my neck funny when thrown... boy, has my neck been sore. I must not have tucked properly when thrown. Definitely, need to regularly practice those.
Good point you made. I am the proof.
Vicki
