Judo versus Karate

[Bill Glasheen]

The results seem inexplicable without interviewing the striker.

Here are a few I can think of.

• He had absolutely no idea what he was doing against a grappler.
• He panicked early and resorted to flailing behavior. (A version of deer-in-headlights phenomenon)
• He was trying kyusho KO techniques on someone other than a willing partner in a demo (the "nerf dart" theory). Well... at least he wasn't trying any "no touch" KOs.

Nothing like an uncooperative opponent to help you separate the effective from the totally useless.

- Bill

[mhosea]

Nothing like an uncooperative opponent to help you separate the effective from the totally useless.

I think that hits the nail on the head. My guess would be the kyusho theory. I was initially fooled because we do see similar strikes from weak positions. I don't think it's legal anymore to aim for the back of the head/neck, but nowadays they can still go for behind the ear. Anyway, he went to these strikes well before he was tied up, so I was confused. It looked wrong, somehow. However, I just watched that sequence again with the kyusho KO idea in mind, and for the first time it looked to me like Parker was actually trying to execute a plan.

[Topos]

Jason, re " The Air Force unoficially adopted Judo about 20 years ago..":

Like Herodotus may I add whence the Judo in the AF :

Back in pre-historic times [ when GEM and I were in our teens and TVs were - gasp - in Black & White ] there was a set of pictures in Life Magazine of General Curtis LeMay at SAC in a Judo Gi throwing easily a trim black-belt Major. Said Major, who soon thereafter got promoted to Lt.Col and later Col., had a happy grin on his face. LeMay got his black belt. Judo's approval for the Air Force was assured.

"Commencing in 1952, The 1st Missile Division was activated, having operational control over strategic missiles. Upon receiving his fourth star in 1951 at age 44, LeMay became the youngest full general in American history since Ulysses S. Grant and is still recognized as the youngest general in modern history, as well as the longest serving. In 1956 and 1957 LeMay implemented tests of 24-hour bomber and tanker alerts, keeping some bomber forces ready at all times. LeMay headed SAC until 1957, overseeing its transformation into a modern, efficient, all-jet force. LeMay's tenure was the longest over a military command in close to 100 years." Wikp.

Now if GEM had only let JFK toss him about could one imagine where UECHI would be today?

[Bill Glasheen]

Topos

Let's not forget that Curtis LeMay made a run for the White House in 1968 as a VP running mate of George Wallace.

I can't believe I remember that...

Now if GEM had only let JFK toss him about could one imagine where UECHI would be today?

Here's another piece of trivia. Anyone know which 007 novel had James Bond practicing Uechi karate? (Betcha can't Google it! )

- Bill

[f.Channell]

There were generals in their 20's during the Civil War.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galusha_Pennypacker
Lincoln quickly had to clean out the old guard generals and admirals to find ones that would attack and fight. The old ones he found to be paper pushers. Or in Scotts case too old.

F.

[AAAhmed46]

From what I recall of the old UFC matches...karate people from all styles, bar none, were pretty much useless.

You also se the fallacy of not practicing 'pre-emptive' striking...and just standing there in a pose, waiting for something to happen.

Pretty useless all right.

The kyokushin guys did a little better...while they were still on their feet.

[Bill Glasheen]

In the early MMA fights, the practitioners who came from contact sport backgrounds (e.g. judo, BJJ, Muay Thai) tended to do best in this contact sport. When you think about it, that's a big Duh!!

The sport of MMA itself has evolved, as have the fighters in it as the rules have changed. He who executes best under the rules of the game wins.

- Bill

[f.Channell]

And in the old days of UFC being bigger than your opponent was also better.
Hence the weight classes.

F.

[Jason Rees]

There were exceptions. Like the guy who slapped the sumo down. Man, that was a fun UFC (I think it was II or III).

[f.Channell]

Was that the guy who had his tooth kicked out while he was down?
Ouch!

[Jason Rees]

No, he didn't go down. The sumo did though. And the guy that slapped him down (Keith Hackney, a kempo practicianer) broke his hand pummeling the big guy over the back of the head.

[Bill Glasheen]

I remember that match. The bitch slap was apropos, and quite effective. But then it broke down from there. He took the sumo/judo guy out well enough, but broke his hand doing it. Because of it, he couldn't advance.

Full Fight Big Sumo Man vs small American Kenpo Karate Man from UFC 3

If ever there was an example of why you shouldn't punch someone to the head, that was it.

Did you notice that Hackney showed absolutely zero ability to hit with his left arm? The fight would have been over a lot quicker (and he might have saved his fist) if he had instead engaged in left-right combinations.

- Bill

[AAAhmed46]

I remember that match. The bitch slap was apropos, and quite effective. But then it broke down from there. He took the sumo/judo guy out well enough, but broke his hand doing it. Because of it, he couldn't advance.

Full Fight Big Sumo Man vs small American Kenpo Karate Man from UFC 3

If ever there was an example of why you shouldn't punch someone to the head, that was it.

Did you notice that Hackney showed absolutely zero ability to hit with his left arm? The fight would have been over a lot quicker (and he might have saved his fist) if he had instead engaged in left-right combinations.

- Bill

Think your being a bit hard on him. He was one of the few guys to give Royce a bit of grief. He still lost, but Royce's body language showed he was surprised by hackney. that's not to say he did great on the ground, he didn't.

He also punched Kimo's coach in the nuts. Yay!

Ive been kickboxing for two years, yet still when sparring hard, i end up using mostly my right hand. I perform well enough, It's not that i don't use my left, I used it int he tournament when my opponents started grabbing my right hand thinking i would stop striking. They tried controlling my right, i unleashed with my left. I also use the jab or left hook hooks as setups when i can.
I have a friend, his background is mostly MMA and kyokushin, he's right handed, yet does 70% of his fighting with his left hand. It's bloody weird. But he's very effective.

With hackney, is it a reflection of bad training? Or is he simply better with his right?

EDIT: Whoops i misread you.

[AAAhmed46]

whoops i misread your comments. Sorry. Your talking about a break, not critiquing technique.

[robb buckland]

"With Hackney, is it a reflection of bad training? Or is he simply better with his right?"

I sparred with Keith Hackney at a Chuck Norriss' Kick Drugs Out of America event in Chicago , I trained with some of his fellow kenpo guys too ...he was superior to all of them (even his instructor).He hits hard but is an emotional fighter get 'im mad is how ya get' im.He and I did a movie with Joe Lewis and Mike Depasquale ( The Cut Off )in Wilmington ,North Carolina together ...he's a loyal friend and an excellent martial artist !